Festool CXS Li 1,5 Ah

[Davelaar]

Hello,

I have been visiting this website for some time, and now its time to ask a few question here.

Question 1;
Does anyone know whats the differance between the:
- Festool Cordless drill CXS Li, Li-Ion battery capacity  1,5 Ah
- Festool Cordless drill CXS Li, Li-Ion battery capacity  1,3 Ah

Question 2;
And does someone know why they changed the Ah from 1,3 Ah to 1,5 Ah?

Question 3;
Did they only changed the battery? Or also the electronic inside the drill?

Question 4:
Is it possible to use both, different Ah battery packs in the same machine?
For example the 1,5 Ah in the older 1,3 Ah drill.

Here in the Netherlands there both for sale.
As far as i can see the drill-speed 0-400/0-1200 min, and torque, 10/16 Nm looks the same to me,
or am i overseeing something?

 

[AlexThePalex]

Hoi Davelaar, welcome to the FOG.

To answer your questions:

1 - This is the first time I hear about this difference in battery capacities, but knowing how Festool works, that probably only means there is a difference of 0,2 Amp Hour in the batteries.

2 - Festool's engineers constantly work on improving batteries. Seems they found a way to squeeze another 0,2 Ah in. They do it, because bigger is better.  [wink]

3 - Looking at the Ekat parts site of Festool there's only one model of the CXS. So that probably means they didn't change anything inside. You don't need to change anything inside the drill to run it with bigger batteries.

4 - Yes, you can use both batteries in any CXS you'll find. And that will probably remain the same for quite some time, until somebody invents a completely new battery technology.

 

[Kev]

My very recent CXS is 1.3 ... Damn!

 

[Administrator_JSVN]

The only difference between a 1.3Ah and 1.5Ah battery is run time. The higher the Ah (amp hours) the longer the battery will last, it's capacity. I'm not sure of the reason for the change, but about 5-6 months ago all of the battery packs changed from multiples of 1.3 to multiples of 1.5. So, the larger drills have 3.0Ah batteries now. Nothing changed with the drill itself, it remains the same. Electronics don't care about Ah (battery capacity) but instead about voltage. So, you can use the 1.3Ah or 1.5Ah (or other variations should they ever be introduced) with your CXS.

Since it will probably be asked, let me address this proactively: all CXS models sold in the US/Canada have been 1.5Ah models. So, no need to collectively run to your shops to check.

 

[NoBreyner]

I wasn't worried.  My CXS runs plenty long as it is.

 

[sl_1800]

Mine seems to run for ever on one battery.

 

[jmbfestool]

aaaaaaaa!!!!

Just another reason why not to buy any Festool tools from release date in the UK.   As you end up stuck with  faults or less for your buck as they improve it only a few months down the line.    It would be okay if they recall or send you a part to solve the faults but they dont.

I know this is only .2ah increase but STILL its an improvement non the less and the people who are loyal to festool and take the risk to buy newly released tools are just left behind! Festool know what they are doing as they dont say anything about the improvements or if the faults have been corrected.  

Cus they think if they keep quiet about it people wont know but because of FOG people do know about these faults and improvements.    Like me I would not of known festool improved the T15 chuck to a ratchet chuck only found out through FOG even though I have told LOADS of people at work how crap the festool chucks are  unfortunately for me  im the only person who owns a festool T15 I know off so no one came back to me and said well my chuck is fine cus its a ratchet chuck so if it was not for FOG I would of kept on telling people about the crap chucks not knowing the newer T15 came with better chucks!  

So festool not doing anything about this not only annoys people like me MASSIVELY it also does not help to sell their tools to non festool owners due to the fact I was saying bad things about the tool. Also I tell EVERY one NEVER to buy Festool tools when they are first released!   people listen to me as they all come up to me for tool advise as I am often called a Tool Geek or Festool dude!  

I know this rant might be a little much for just a .2ah increase but its just another thing which has come up though FOG only.   As I would of never found out probably.

JMB

 

[VictorL]

The only difference between a 1.3Ah and 1.5Ah battery is run time. The higher the Ah (amp hours) the longer the battery will last, it's capacity. I'm not sure of the reason for the change, but about 5-6 months ago all of the battery packs changed from multiples of 1.3 to multiples of 1.5. So, the larger drills have 3.0Ah batteries now. Nothing changed with the drill itself, it remains the same. Electronics don't care about Ah (battery capacity) but instead about voltage. So, you can use the 1.3Ah or 1.5Ah (or other variations should they ever be introduced) with your CXS.

Since it will probably be asked, let me address this proactively: all CXS models sold in the US/Canada have been 1.5Ah models. So, no need to collectively run to your shops to check.

It makes sense to update some web pages
http://drills.festoolusa.com/cordless-drills/models/cxs/

 

[AlexThePalex]

I know this rant might be a little much for just a .2ah increase but its just another thing which has come up though FOG only.   As I would of never found out properly.

Yeah, I think you're overdoing it a bit this time.  [huh] It's only 0.2 Ah. Just 15% more. Not really a big improvement and little to be concerned about.

Just another reason why not to buy any Festool tools from release date in the UK.  

I think you're correct with this one though. And it's not just about Festool or the UK. This is just about consumer goods in general, everywhere. I think buying a first batch of something is a risky thing and it's something I learned not to do a long long time ago. There's bound to be some teething problems with most products. And some things that aren't a problem, but just need a little tweek. It's better to wait a while, and stand back to watch silly early adopters' experiences with these products before you jump in yourself.

As for the batteries, Shane said Festool changed all it's batteries from multiples of 1.3 to multiples of 1.5 Ah. Seems obvious to me that's because Festool's battery supplier came up with a cell that could hold just a little bit more juice. You can't blame Festool for that. They don't make their own batteries.

 

[Administrator_JSVN]

It makes sense to update some web pages
http://drills.festoolusa.com/cordless-drills/models/cxs/

Yup, good catch. Obviously I used pre-release info when I put all the specs on the site and failed to catch it after the fact. Thanks for pointing out the mistake, Victor.

 

[oldie]

Totally agree JMB – 100%.
I'm hoping to get a CXS next year, but say I was buying a few weeks ago??
Just been mooching around eBay, and both the 1.3, and, the 1.5 are being offered at same price here and there  – so were it not for FOG, I might have even now, inadvertently, bought the 'older' model.    That's life I suppose.

Bye the bye, there is an auction for a Festool CXS Li 1,3 Set  (Item number: 280782310065)
Might even go for more than a new one.  [big grin]

And!  Oh dear, here I go again – sorry folks.
Warranties from Festool UK (TTS Tooltechnic Systems.)
They are eBay'ing quite a few items.  Below I have copied the tools on offer, together with comments made regarding warranties.

C15 Li 2,6 Set GB -  “This machine is still eligible for 3 year warranty...”
DX93 E PLUS GB SANDER -  “This machine comes with a 3 year warranty”
HL850 EB PLUS GB -  “Also comes with a 6 month warranty”
CT55 Festool Dust Extractor -  “Comes with a 6 month warranty!”
SYM 70 E Symmetric Saw –  warranty not referred to in description.
WTS 150/7 E SANDER –  warranty not referred to in description.
LEX 2 150/7 AIR SANDER -  “This machine is eligible for 3 year warranty!!!!!”
LRS 93/M -  “...ELIGIBLE FOR 3 YEAR WARRANTY”
RS100 Q PLUS GB SANDER -  “Eligible for 3 year warranty!!!!!”
C15 Li 2,6 PLUS GB -  “ELIGIBLE FOR 3 YEAR WARRANTY!!!!!”
T12 + 3 Li 2.6 Plus GB Cordless Drill -  “Eligible for 3 year Warranty!!!”
ETS 125EQ PLUS GB 240V -  “ELIGIBLE FOR 3 YEAR WARRANTY”

Why the variations in warranties?  Inconsistent or what?  Are they being deliberately … put your own words in.
O/k, maybe some very good reasons, from their perspective – but hardly open and transparent.  Can't help but think, that if they went to onto a building site, and came out with this nonsense, they'd soon be sorted out – and quite right too.

What a shame – I honestly believe they're not doing themselves any favours in the long run.
For me, this isn't about about a slight increase of battery capacity, or, the fact that suppliers can, mid-stream, give better value say; it's more about some vague undercurrent of attitude.  For the price of the tools, I would expect them to be more ruthlessly 'road tested' by for eg seasoned, experienced, and, knowledgeable tradesmen before being released.

With regard to the UK, I envy the positive can do, will do, attitude that seems to prevail across the waters. And yes, I do understand that 'things' can go wrong, you can't satisfy everyone, sods law, etc.

 

[peter halle]

Who is the ebay seller?

Peter

 

[Kev]

I have a CXS 1.3. Yes, I would be happier if it was a 1.5.

I have a T18 with 2.6 batteries and no integrated light. Yes - I'd be happier if they were 3.0.

But I make two points ...

1. I still like both my CXS and my T18

2. I don't expect Festool to rush out and give me new stuff for nothing

Festool are very obviously a continuous improvement company and that is a great thing. Improvements will pop up in products and I'd be certain that if an original was actually faulty - they'd do something about it.

This is something you can't have both ways - get on board with a brand that continuously improves it's products and you could buy something that has an improvement coming tomorrow.

In a previous thread I asked if anyone would pay a "premium upgrade insurance" fee over and above the price of their product??? I bet most wouldn't.

...

Another thing to consider here - who's actually done a scientific test on the two batteries ... for all we know they could have tested them and re-rated them!

 

[Administrator_JSVN]

Bah, I don't like it when I'm wrong but... I think I was wrong about what I wrote earlier. Too much information to retain.

I think we have the 1.3Ah batteries for the CXS here in the US/Canada. I was thinking of the new C12, which has only had the 1.5Ah since its introduction. Sorry.  [sad]

 

[Peterm]

Who is the ebay seller?

my emphasis:-

Warranties from Festool UK (TTS Tooltechnic Systems.)
They are eBay'ing quite a few items.  Below I have copied the tools on offer, together with comments made regarding warranties...

Why the variations in warranties?  Inconsistent or what?  Are they being deliberately … put your own words in.
O/k, maybe some very good reasons, from their perspective – but hardly open and transparent.

They (FestoolUK) seem to be selling off a variety of equipment - something they do regularly btw - some of which is described as used, some as new, and some 'lightly used ex-demo'. I expect that the varying condition of the tools explains the variation in the warranty that's being offered, as some things (the symmetric saw, say) are probably too old to be offered with a warranty, some things (the CT55, say) may have been too well-used to offer a full warranty, and some items that have been lightly used are eligible for the full three years; nothing inconsistent or deliberately obtuse there - as far as I can see everything is explained clearly and up-front??

As for the CXS, do I wish mine had the slightly beefier battles? Sure, but it doesn't stop it being my go-to drill driver for everyday use, and good to know that the next one I buy will have the bigger cells.

Having said that, the non-ratcheting chuck on the T15 was a much bigger issue as it adversely affected the usability of the tool - happy to say mine has the ratcheting chuck, but I do feel that early buyers should have been given the option of a chuck exchange, if not gratis then heavily-discounted.

Cheers, Pete.

 

[jmbfestool]

Who is the ebay seller?

my emphasis:-

Warranties from Festool UK (TTS Tooltechnic Systems.)
They are eBay'ing quite a few items.  Below I have copied the tools on offer, together with comments made regarding warranties...

Why the variations in warranties?  Inconsistent or what?  Are they being deliberately … put your own words in.
O/k, maybe some very good reasons, from their perspective – but hardly open and transparent.

They (FestoolUK) seem to be selling off a variety of equipment - something they do regularly btw - some of which is described as used, some as new, and some 'lightly used ex-demo'. I expect that the varying condition of the tools explains the variation in the warranty that's being offered, as some things (the symmetric saw, say) are probably too old to be offered with a warranty, some things (the CT55, say) may have been too well-used to offer a full warranty, and some items that have been lightly used are eligible for the full three years; nothing inconsistent or deliberately obtuse there - as far as I can see everything is explained clearly and up-front??

As for the CXS, do I wish mine had the slightly beefier battles? Sure, but it doesn't stop it being my go-to drill driver for everyday use, and good to know that the next one I buy will have the bigger cells.

Having said that, the non-ratcheting chuck on the T15 was a much bigger issue as it adversely affected the usability of the tool - happy to say mine has the ratcheting chuck, but I do feel that early buyers should have been given the option of a chuck exchange, if not gratis then heavily-discounted.

Cheers, Pete.

My point excatually!  I dont expect festool to give every on new 1.5batteries to people with 1.3 but things like the chuck issue which is an issue and  should be sorted.

Jmb

 

[Kev]

If the chuck lets go, that's just plain faulty and deserves a recall and/or complete free replacement.

... It could be dangerous - wouldn't want someone to have to lose a finger or an eye ... how bad is this previous version of the chuck?

 

[jmbfestool]

If the chuck lets go, that's just plain faulty and deserves a recall and/or complete free replacement.

... It could be dangerous - wouldn't want someone to have to lose a finger or an eye ... how bad is this previous version of the chuck?

Very bad worst chuck out in the professional market and that is a FACT!  I'm sure im going to get people replying to me now saying opposite but hey I have one and used many professional tools (Milwuakee,Panasonic, dewalt,makita, Bosch etc) all which where released before the festool T15 and had better chucks.

I have been up a ladder drilled some holes in floor joists then went back down the ladder but my 22mm flat bit beat me to the ground many of times luckly just concrete flooring but what if it was oak flooring or something or if I was higher up the ladder and some was walking below me.  I have brought this up many of time on fog as it has really annoyed me

Jmb

 

[Brice Burrell]

Bah, I don't like it when I'm wrong but... I think I was wrong about what I wrote earlier. Too much information to retain.

I think we have the 1.3Ah batteries for the CXS here in the US/Canada. I was thinking of the new C12, which has only had the 1.5Ah since its introduction. Sorry.   [sad]

It was funny when you said don't run out and check your CXS because that's exactly what I did because I distinctly remember it being a 1.3ah battery (plus I just love to bust Shane's chops when he's wrong [tongue]).  Sure enough, they are 1.3ah batteries.

 

[oldie]

Warranties
Pete.  Your response regarding warranties well put.  The effort you've put in appreciated by many I suspect.
However, for me, missed the point.
My contention (as alluded to on another thread) is that the full 3 year warranty should just be offered.
Why?

Quote from Festool UK website:
“Power tools more than 30 years old are still in use today. This is no coincidence.  Products from the Festool brand have always been ambassadors for high quality.  Maximum durability, robustness and low wear are fundamental characteristics of all Festool machines.”

And there's lots more in a similar vein on the website; presumably to reinforce some perceived USP. 
I posit that Festool tools are so good, that to not offer the 3 year warranty is obtuse – what about that then eh!  [smile]

A tool has been demo'd.  A tool has been used.  A tool has been lightly used.
So what??  Are Festool saying they have so little confidence in their own products, that they dare not offer a full warranty?
Seems I have more faith than they do – and yourself maybe?
Or, do they know something about some of these tools, that they would rather not share?

Also, as I've pointed out on another thread, Festool dealers sometimes offer ex-demo tools stating full warranty option available.

And, let's bear in mind, these are offered by the HQ of Festool in the UK.  That means they have the service personnel to ensure that, if necessary, the tools are well up to standard.

Parts of your response, I think, reinforce my view that the descriptions offered are less than forthright, and therefore, not as helpful as they could be.
To wit:
1. “...may have been too well-used to offer a full warranty...” - well let them say so; better still, refurbish the tools as necessary and offer full warranty.

2. “...as some things (the symmetric saw, say) are probably too old to be offered with a warranty...” - well, this is a current model, and repeat my comments made above in 1.

I repeat my opinion: Festool UK are not doing themselves any long term favours by adopting this stance regarding warranties on used tools.  Think of the goodwill, enhancement of reputation etc.  Go on – you can do it.

Maybe never the twain will meet – ho, hum.

Chucks:  My opinion.  Bits falling out of chucks, when all reasonable steps have been taken to properly secure the bit.  In Europe, possible product liability issue; particularly if someone had no prior knowledge of such an alleged (albeit rare) occurrence??

Kev, good points in your post.  Re. Batteries – maybe as you say, but  might be just improved battery technology becoming more commercially available at the right price.

Goodnight everyone – take care.
Richard.