Festool Hatred

[slopjock78]

I'm relatively new to the FOG, so i'm sure this has been discussed in the past....But why is there SUCH a hatred for Festool by such a large percentage of people?

The reason I ask, I was surfing youtube at work......er, at home in my free time......and by total chance, I came across a video of a guy that tore apart a TS55 REQ just to see what it looked like inside. I watched a little bit of it, and the guy was actually pretty funny.  Then I read some of the posts below, which quite predictably was 95% people bashing Festool that they are over priced junk and never worth the money, that NO job site EVER will you find Festool, and that they are cheap and fragile and only for hobby woodworkers that like to play in their garages as weekend warriors.  one poster in particular posted how he is an experience carpenter and his 20 yr old bosch circular saw was much more useful and could do anything and more that a track saw could do.  and the only thing that was good about a track saw was that its a "time saver."  is that really a very good "only" qualifier...isnt every tool we use "only" a time saver over a hatchet...the very first woodworking tool created?

Now I am not a full time carpenter/woodworker/etc....however I do feel I have a higher then average skill level, and I DO use my tools, as so many of us on this site do.  We have come to learn that they are very high quality tools, that can take the abuse of daily use.  But why are SO many MILITANT in their hatred of everything green and gray?

 

[anthonyz]

They hate what they cannot have? I would imagine, some think Festool are for the elitist woodworker/contractor. I never hated Festool when I couldn't afford it, but couldn't understand their high costs. As I started learning more about the tools I grew to appreciate them, then as I could afford some, I began my love for them. I have seen people who abuse their tools and have seen some Festools which have been beaten to hell, but still work great. I tend baby my tools so they are always there for whatever job i do. It's like anything, if you take care of them, they will last you for many more years. I think a lot of contractors see their tools as disposable, especially in a market like in the US, where people throw out quality for quantity. I appreciate the Quality and am happy with my move into the world of Festool.

 

[John H]

I have an idea

Why not ask you question on another site that is not full of Festool Employees, Retailers, people that were paid to be in Festool Video's, etc, etc and see what they say?

here is a couple to start:
http://www.contractortalk.com/
http://forums.jlconline.com/forums/

 

[Wuffles]

I have an idea

Why not ask you question on another site that is not full of Festool Employees, Retailers, people that were paid to be in Festool Video's, etc, etc and see what they say?

here is a couple to start:
http://www.contractortalk.com/
http://forums.jlconline.com/forums/

[popcorn]

 

[AlexThePalex]

Festool hatred? Hmmm.... must be an American thing, never seen it around here.

 

[Big G]

It isn't hatred your experiencing it's more taking the piss out of people who show a passion towards tools that are Festool and believe Festool make the best of everything, and as you say are generally used by wannabe craftsmen who believe buying a Festool will give them skills overnight that normally takes years if you are a craftsman.
Festool make some very expensive basic tools, their batteries are a joke, their latest carnation takes 90 minutes to charge. Lets hope they can win back the tradesmen they have been ignoring since the depletion of their Protool range and I personally think their move to a proper circular saw in the HK 85 is a move in the right direction. all they need to do now is develope a real jigsaw, SDS max tools and for the site workers some decent battery tools.

 

[Lbob131]

Festool are not cheap  and are perhaps  seen  as an "elitists" power tool. A power tool  for the weekend  warrior who spends his week  at the desk  juggling IT  concepts  and  earning  ten times more  than  the average  full time  woodworker.

 

[justinh]

I have seen claims made that only good carpenters use Festool.  If you weren't using Festool you didn't care about your craft. I have seen people who questioned the value of a Festool tool over a non laughed at and told they were just jealous of carpenters who could afford them.  One guy in particular always ran his mouth about "the green eyed monster."  The comparison between some expensive automobile model and less expensive makes and models is common.  I have seen contractors claim that they are paid more because they use Festool tools.

I own a number of Festool tools that make sense to me given the work I do.  The ones I own work fine.  The only issue I have associated with the brand in general is the people who make the claims outlined above.  The cost of tools means very little to me IF the price is warranted by a dramatic increase in quality or if the time required to achieve that quality is reduced. 

 

[Kevin D.]

Who cares!  Certainly not me.  I actually find it comical that people are almost cultish in their Festool hatred.  It's pathetic!  Get a life!

 

[clark_fork]

Xenophobpia

Brand loyalty and anti-brand loyalty.

After WW II, there was a fork in the road, Europe went 32mm and the United States remained rooted in traditional cabinetry techniques, perhaps relying more on improving the circular saw and similar tools.

Consider that everything you ever knew about carpentry and cabinetry had to be re-learned.
Your shop is more or less obsolete:

Now:
Domino 500/700
LR32  system
Kapex
MFT/3
Track and track saw
Dust Extractors
Sanders with hoses
Routers with hoses
Dogs and clamps never seen before
Systainers and efficient portability

Not only new methods but
Metric and a whole new world of preciseness. 

All this sets the tone for extreme Xenophobia.  No one wants change and no one wants to admit those effete Europeans have a better idea.

If you want a better example of anti-Festool thinking,  consider what the head buyer at Home Depot thinks about Festool.

 

[John H]

It's not just Festool - its any "premium brand" tool

For Example, - Go to GarageJournal.  They are constantly battling over if SnapOn or Matco tools are really that much better, worth the outrageous costs, etc

Go to SawMill creek and mention SawStop...

you get the idea

 

[Holmz]

There are people cultish in their hatred and cultish in there love.

I find it peculiar that one needs to buy into "a system". The saw and rail are a system, and the Presario and saw are a system.
There is less of a system with a FT vacuum and a different branded sander.
And many of the claims are not well grounded in fact.

If one is predisposed to the green, then it may not be questioned.
So the fanaticism can run both ways.

 

[Rip Van Winkle]

It's not just Festool - its any "premium brand" tool

For Example, - Go to GarageJournal.  They are constantly battling over if SnapOn or Matco tools are really that much better, worth the outrageous costs, etc

Go to SawMill creek and mention SawStop...

you get the idea

The hatred for Sawstop is not about cost. It's about the owner of Sawstop trying to get legislation passed that would have banned every other circular saw that didn't have Sawstop or similar safety features. Some advocates of Sawstop seem to also believe that every other saw that doesn't have Sawstop technology should be banned, and only Sawstop type tools should be used.

 

[demographic]

I'm a full time subcontractor carpenter and own a TS55 REQ plus a few guiderails and a fair number of the T loc boxes that I have been putting my non festool tools (Gasp) into.
That saw lives in my van toolsafe and gets used on floors, pipe boxing, bathroom wall panels and whatever else

Every person I have worked with who has had a go with that saw wants one now but make no mistake, all the money I should have spent on my van went on tools this year and only now do I have enough money to sort the van out.

Not totally sure that every item they make is as much of a gamechanger as the saw though. Like everything else, no single manufacturer makes the best of everything and should be evaluated on their own merits.

 

[stvrowe]

I pay no attention to hater comments as they are almost always made by someone who has never used a Festool or any other quality tool for that matter.  Since they seem to be happy with their dusty mess, I have no obligation to remove them from their state of blissful ignorance.

 

[Michael1960]

Are they haters of Festool or knockers of Festool?
I suspect it's the 'green eyed monster' called jealousy. 
Slopjock1978 - check over your shoulder....A Festool knocker maybe watching!

 

[jacko9]

A good fraction of the people that have expressed dissatisfaction of the Festool brand on a lot of forums proceed to tell me that they buy their tools at Harbor Freight or other such outlet.  If you only want a tool to do the minimum function and don't think about the advanced engineering or longevity of top quality tools, then higher priced quality tools probably aren't for you.

 

[CrazyLarry]

Not totally sure that every item they make is as much of a gamechanger as the saw though. Like everything else, no single manufacturer makes the best of everything and should be evaluated on their own merits.

And relative to actual needs... A self-employed sparks who does rewires all the while is likely to have a disproportionate amount of hilti kit but a pair of full-time employed glazers probably have nothing but makita or dewalt, for what they do (bash out and glue in) that's fine...

As for the weekend warrior thing who cares? In someways you could see them as subsidising higher end kit by amplifying the sales quantities. Niche market tools that sell small quantities can be much more expensive than FT.

 

[Mort]

It's not just Festool - its any "premium brand" tool

For Example, - Go to GarageJournal.  They are constantly battling over if SnapOn or Matco tools are really that much better, worth the outrageous costs, etc

Go to SawMill creek and mention SawStop...

you get the idea

The hatred for Sawstop is not about cost. It's about the owner of Sawstop trying to get legislation passed that would have banned every other circular saw that didn't have Sawstop or similar safety features. Some advocates of Sawstop seem to also believe that every other saw that doesn't have Sawstop technology should be banned, and only Sawstop type tools should be used.

And here we have an example.

The woodworking forum I'm on, there are a few hot button topics that are guaranteed to start an argument. SawStop, Festool, Harbor Freight, radial arm saws, Craftsman.

I find it hard to get too excited about the tools other people use.

 

[Rip Van Winkle]

It's not just Festool - its any "premium brand" tool

For Example, - Go to GarageJournal.  They are constantly battling over if SnapOn or Matco tools are really that much better, worth the outrageous costs, etc

Go to SawMill creek and mention SawStop...

you get the idea

The hatred for Sawstop is not about cost. It's about the owner of Sawstop trying to get legislation passed that would have banned every other circular saw that didn't have Sawstop or similar safety features. Some advocates of Sawstop seem to also believe that every other saw that doesn't have Sawstop technology should be banned, and only Sawstop type tools should be used.

And here we have an example.

The woodworking forum I'm on, there are a few hot button topics that are guaranteed to start an argument. SawStop, Festool, Harbor Freight, radial arm saws, Craftsman.

I find it hard to get too excited about the tools other people use.

While these subjects can all turn into hot button issues on forums, they usually don't turn into hot button issues for the same reasons.

Craftsman tools are a hot button issue because Sears spent decades advertising them as "made in the USA" and then started having a majority of the tools made overseas in china. People who purchased a majority of Craftsman felt betrayed.

Radial Arm Saws are a hot button issue mostly for safety reasons, so to a certain extent they're controversial in the same way regular tablesaws are, especially when compared to Sawstop.

Harbor Freight is controversial because a lot of people look at the tools as underpriced crap. This is probably the closest in controversy to Festool since the complaints about Festool because a lot of complainers seem to view Festool as overpriced crap.

One problem with Festool, is that because it works as a system, the initial buy in price is high, especially if you're an underpaid, or under-employed contractor, or a hobbyist who only has a few hundred every several months to buy both tools and materials.

Festool is still underrepresented enough amongst woodworkers that it's not necessarily likely that your friend will have a Festool system you can observe in use, or play with yourself, at least enough to get an understanding of the advantages of the system. And even if your friend or someone you do know has the system, they may be apprehensive about loaning it to you or letting you use it.

Festool enthusiasts can also sometimes overzealously promote the brand in woodworking discussions. Unfortunately for those who have no personal experience with the system, and who don't have the finances to purchase a minimal chunk of the system, even if just for the test drive, the enthusiastic recommendations of the Festool system can come across as rubbing salt in a wound.  [sad].

Another issue for some contractors is that Festool uses "proprietary" consumables and blades. While this isn't exactly true, if a contractor is used to buying a $20 circular saw blade or 5 pack of sandpaper at his local hardware store, as needed for each job. The higher cost of the Festool blades, combined with the lower local availability, can cause problems for contractors who buy their blades and consumables on an as needed basis.