Festool impact drill

[Troll]

I have to agree with Shane's last comment, "You two don't like it and that's fine". Sorry, I don't understand this continual argumentative and "ramming your opinion down other people's monitor" approach to the review of the Ti15.  You tried it and don't rate it, that's fine and your opinion.  But don't keep going on and on about it as if your opinion is the be all and end all of tool reviews.

I've never tried this tool but I know if I buy it I've got 30 days to return it AND get my money back.  I very much appreciate other people's reviews of tools but in a constructive and considered manner please.

Troll

 

[Dogwood]

Isn't a review essentially a list of likes and dislikes?

People asked more questions and wanted more details.

Shane said JMB "misrepresented" the TI 15 when he showed it and a T15 performing the same screw driving function. JMB obviously felt he should be able to justify what he was illustrating and quite possibly felt wrongly accused.

People disagree; I do not think anyone should insult each other or feel offended if they do not see eye to eye. Or taking a supposedly neutral stance while accusing someone of "ramming their opinion down other peoples monitors" because you don't agree with it.

 

[Troll]

I've no problem with people disagreeing, nor constructively arguing their point.  What I dislike is the manner in which it is done.  I personally don't find posts which shout out 'I'm right and you're wrong' in any way constructive. .  I wasn't taking any neutral stance, I was merely stating my opinion and it clearly wasn't neural. I personally find the tone of some of the posts in this thread to be rude and ill-considered.  Sorry, but that's my stance. 

Troll

 

[ajones]

I prefer the honest experienced user opinion, real world stuff.as opposed to the sugar coated crap that's dished out here from time to time.

more of it..... the good the bad and the ugly

 

[Kev]

I don't want to perpetuate a pro/anti Ti15 beat up here - but I think it's important to try for some balance!

JMB is very demanding of his tools, he uses an OF2200 as a trimmer after all [wink]

So:

1. If you need the most powerful impact driver on the market, don't buy the Ti15 today... We can probably agree on that no matter what camp we're in.
2. The Ti15 isn't exactly the same as a T15, with the addition of impact driver functionality... Probably OK to agree on that too.
3. The Ti15 can do a pretty good job as an impact driver... Honestly, it impresses me, but I haven't run it up against the biggest players.
4. If you have the need, it can be used to drill holes... Regardless of the limits, over time a hole will be the result!
5. The Ti15 is compatible with you C15/T15/CARVEX/Syslite, etc batteries, Centrotec bits, it does have a 3 year warranty and if it breaks you know Festool will fix it... This cannot be denied!

I don't see it as a bad tool and I think it's inappropriate to rubbish it.

Am I defending and justifying my purchase? Probably yes - but I think my usage pattern is probably common to a lot of Festool users out there.

I'll also take this opportunity to point out that Protool is the heavy duty range from the Festool family - the fact that some markets don't have the full range is a shame and it seems people just expect the green tools to do what the black and orange ones are for if they can't get their hands on them.

Now in regard to how the Ti15 has been marketed - my local dealer never portrayed the Ti15 to be nirvana in a systainer, I also think the fact that Festool market a Systainer that take a C15, Ti15 and accessories spells out their true perspective.

 

[Jaybolishes]

I think an impact driver is handy because you don't want all that torque going into your wrist.  But if the drill doesn't have much power anyway, what's the use of having the impact.  It's not going to drive a tough screw anyway, so why would it need to be an impact. An impact needs to be powerful, if not then what's the use.  The cxs is amazing, worth every penny.  My old dewalt 18v xrp impact drill, extremely powerful and also worth every penny. And as many users know, if you put a drill bit in an impact, the impact doesn't engage hardly ever, unless under heavy load, so if it's impacting you are probably pushing too hard.    Now to buy another expensive drill in between the two is not a purchase I want to make.  At the price of the Ti15, I expect a lot.  And that's why I have turned to festool, expensive price but the absolute best.  My wifes  ryobi 18v drill is great for her, but not to a professional woodworker who uses these things every day. My dealer was praising the Ti15 today so much and I wouldn't have ever known about these short comings with out this forum.  I really enjoy the freedom to say what you want and say what you feel, that's the Internet folks.  Its users who use them and give feedback which leads to better tools.  If all people are going to do is say fuzzy things, this forum would be almost useless to me, and it wouldnt give honest representation of the tools.  It's the bad that can show you what you're doing wrong, or simply what you personally shouldn't buy.  I try to use kind words when I'm upset, but that's me and I understand if someone is a little peeved and slips, we all have done it.  If you have cons, say it, then let someone say their piece and at least you have heard both sides.  I just want to keep it honest and that's what I look for on this great forum.  I take the word of users very seriously and if they have some harsh words I understand.  But festool is king with that 30 day return policy, you can't beat that.  But it's nice to not waste my time and theirs by buying a tool I'll later find wont cut it, and that's why I like the honesty.  My two cents

 

[Kev]

It truly makes me laugh to read the "opinions" of people that haven't even touched the drill. Even more of a giggle how the detail is missed.

I don't believe JMB in even his most cynical of evaluations would try to imply that the Ti15 is "completely useless" as an impact driver ... he wishes it was lighter and more powerful and prefers other drivers. That DOES NOT mean that it is useless.

I value the opinions of people that have tried the Ti15. I value how they reflect on it's use in their particular line of work. BUT, I really don't understand the people that regurgitate someone else's opinion and add their own rant without even touching the tool.

It's easy to see how people get burnt alive as witches. Much easier to put someone else's opinion in your head ... why evaluate your own needs and consider a range of opinions and benefits? No, that would may way too much sense.

If anyone uses the tool and believes it to be bad, or of poor value they have the reasonable right to criticise it. Anyone else that just jumps on the bandwagon to run the tool down needs to take a serious look at themselves and their motivations for doing so.

Maybe I'm the only person on the planet that will ever actually like the Ti15 - blindly stupid and happy me!

 

[Administrator_JSVN]

I think an impact driver is handy because you don't want all that torque going into your wrist.  But if the drill doesn't have much power anyway, what's the use of having the impact. 

And this is example of the results of the TI15 being misrepresented. As an impact driver, it has plenty of power. When you override the impact mode, it doesn't have enough torque to drive a 6" screw for instance. But why on earth would you override the impact mode to do that?! It'll drive a 2½ screw in non-impact mode and drill holes at 3900 RPM, which is blazing fast. Like I said, I think showing the TI15 impact in non-impact mode trying to drive a 6" screw is a misrepresentation.

The advantage of an impact from my perspective is that you can drive a large screw with less effort on the part of the user and with less battery. The TI15 accomplishes both of those quite well and the brushless motor is going to add to that battery conservation.

Even though I'm a Festool employee, I don't try to sprinkle sunshine on everything I say. I admitted there is a slight compromise, that being high torque, when running the TI15 in non-impact mode. That doesn't make it any less of an impact driver, which is what it's primary purpose is.

I don't have a problem with forum members disliking our products for whatever reason. I just want to make sure that the product is represented fairly and accurately.

 

[Alan m]

i have to agree with jmb on this.
i used it a a demo for a few minutes. i didnt warm to it. it felt underpowered in both functions. the t15 was driling 300 screws in and out fast but the ti15 was very slow. my 18 volt dewalt impact driles the screw in a lot farther before the impact kicks in.
i watched the demo guy fumble around with the adapter and the chucks. it felt really heavy with the chucks fitted and unballenced.

i would see no value to me the way it is. i would rather if the made a cxs version and a ti18 version. (this is the way i have my dealt impacts. a big one for big screws and the small one for smaller screws and in tight spaces or where you want a light drill)
i might be ok for someone doing just cabinetery
festool portrays this as great in both regards. i dont think it is great at either.
i understand it ist designed to be your primery drill  but i would think it would be capable of doing it at least as good as the t15.
jmbs solution (or something similar)is the way it should be.
my dealer says that he isnt planing on getting any in because he sees no one buying it.
they should have made it the top of the market impact  with impact to the 90 degree chuck.

i some times use my impact as a drill and find it worth while rather than going to get the drill. not perfect but good enough for small bits . so  that leaves teh drill for larger bits. by the sounds of it the ti15 in drill mode isnt up to the job.

also that 30 day returns policy is eu law so all companies have that.

 

[woodwrights_corner]

I have a question.  As a woodworker for over 40 years I have have never found a need for an impact driver.  I bought a cheap pneumatic kit but have never used it.  Granted my woodworking is not an 8 hour 5 day a week vocation, but I have had a wide variety of experiences from furniture to framing and remodel.  No, I am not required to "go fast" all of the time.  A little beeswax, soap or liquid detergent has gotten me by all these years.  

So help me, why and when should I be using an impact driver?   Personally, I dislike the noise.  I could see using an impact driver for lag bolts on a large deck or ledger boards, but other than that I am at a loss.

Please help me uderstand.

 

[Alan m]

i use my impact most of the time.
it allows the battery to last a lot longer . and takes the presure off of your wrists. it works great in aqward spaces or over your head.

the noise is horrible thow

 

[Ken Nagrod]

I have a question.  As a woodworker for over 40 years I have have never found a need for an impact driver.  I bought a cheap pneumatic kit but have never used it.  Granted my woodworking is not an 8 hour 5 day a week vocation, but I have had a wide variety of experiences from furniture to framing and remodel.  No, I am not required to "go fast" all of the time.  A little beeswax, soap or liquid detergent has gotten me by all these years.  

So help me, why and when should I be using an impact driver?   Personally, I dislike the noise.  I could see using an impact driver for lag bolts on a large deck or ledger boards, but other than that I am at a loss.

Please help me uderstand.

Thinking about my use of drills during woodworking and during construction/renovation, I can't come up with a good reason why a woodworker would need an impact feature unless you're making very large pieces that require driving larger screws into dense woods and don't want the torque reaction you might get with a drill/driver.  A cabinetmaker/installer might find it useful for speed of installation into wall studs and then there's stairbuilding where it could be useful.  Of course you can put your beadboard up twice as fast.

 

[Troll]

I too want honest (and balanced) opinions from users and I've never suggested otherwise.  However, there is a world of difference between your honest opinions and the tone and content of some of this thread.  I am not suggesting the 'bad' has to be sugar-coated but once you've voiced your opinion then you don't need to keep shouting it out as if your opinion is the only valid one.  I have never used this impact drill but if I was thinking of buying one I wouldn't rely on the reviews here as a fair and reasoned assessment of its limitations or strengths.  In the same way I would be wary of a review that was completely gushing its admiration for a particular tool.

Also Alan M, you are completely mistaken to say that EU (European Union) law means the 30 day return applies to all companies.  In the UK, at least, statutory legislation covering consumers' rights, such as the Sale Of Goods Act, does not in anyway allow you to ask for a full refund (or indeed any refund) because you simply don't like a product or have changed your mind.  You are only entitled to a refund if the goods are not fit for purpose or wrongly described.  It is a common misconception for consumer to think such entitlement exists. Therefore the 30 day no quibble return is a valuable benefit from Festool as part of their sales package.  One man's junk is another man's masterpiece.  So forward please with objective and balanced reviews....Thanks!

Troll

 

[awdriven]

An impact driver is handy for plenty of situations. It's a lot less strain on the wrist and almost always faster than using a drill. However, you do give up some finesse and feel. I would use a drill or just a hand screwdriver for delicate work.

I had to drive countless 1.5 inch screws while making some doors out of cedar T&G for my shed. The Milwaukee 18v impact was lightning fast driving those screws and was light with a short length. I could have easily used my Makita 10.8v impact for this job (even lighter and smaller), but it has no belt clip and would have been more hassle. I had to be very careful not to overdrive those screws, though.

Another around-the-house job was screwing together hardwood 6x6s for a playground mulch pit. It was 8 inch timberlok screws. The only tool I had at the time that could drive them was a corded milwaukee slow speed drill and I really had to put a lot of weight on the drill to keep the socket from skipping off the hex head of the screws. I'd like to try out my impacts and see how they would do with this job.

 

[ericbuggeln]

Wood wright, unless youre building a deck they re worthless.  I want to use mine and I can never find times that I wouldnt want to just use my C12. Or better put, Im never using my C12 and say man I wish I could make a separate trip to the truck to get my Makita Impact(which is wicked nice). In you situation it would be a complete waste of money, Eric

 

[Alan m]

I too want honest (and balanced) opinions from users and I've never suggested otherwise.  However, there is a world of difference between your honest opinions and the tone and content of some of this thread.  I am not suggesting the 'bad' has to be sugar-coated but once you've voiced your opinion then you don't need to keep shouting it out as if your opinion is the only valid one.  I have never used this impact drill but if I was thinking of buying one I wouldn't rely on the reviews here as a fair and reasoned assessment of its limitations or strengths.  In the same way I would be wary of a review that was completely gushing its admiration for a particular tool.

Also Alan M, you are completely mistaken to say that EU (European Union) law means the 30 day return applies to all companies.  In the UK, at least, statutory legislation covering consumers' rights, such as the Sale Of Goods Act, does not in anyway allow you to ask for a full refund (or indeed any refund) because you simply don't like a product or have changed your mind.  You are only entitled to a refund if the goods are not fit for purpose or wrongly described.  It is a common misconception for consumer to think such entitlement exists. Therefore the 30 day no quibble return is a valuable benefit from Festool as part of their sales package.  One man's junk is another man's masterpiece.  So forward please with objective and balanced reviews....Thanks!

Troll

i dont want to start a debate on this but
there was a woman on the radio from the irish consumer rights authorite and she said that, so im only taking her word on that.
maybe its only an irish thing.
if you buy something online you have 7 days to return it (unopened etc and you pay shipping back) and they have to refund you the money  and the shipping to you  .

i have to ring the consumer authority soon (over warrenty issue on remote) and i will ask for clarification.

now back to  bashing jmb

 

[Administrator_JSVN]

In reference to the question of needing an impact, here's a video from Gary Katz that talks about that point.

Impact Driver or Festool CXS?

 

[promhandicam]

In reference to the question of needing an impact, here's a video from Gary Katz that talks about that point.

Impact Driver or Festool CXS?

At 1.37 if he didn't have such a long magnetic bit holder then he would have got his impact in without any problem : But then this is a video trying to sell the CXS - hardly a big surprise from someone supported by festool.

I'll stick with my impact driver and for tight spaces use one of these:

which cost about £7 and allow me to get into a 45mm gap with a standard 25mm hex bit.

PS. I'm not sponsored by MTMC or anyone else for that matter  [laughing]

 

[Troll]

Alan M, That's the Consumer Protection (Distance Selling) Regulation the " Regulation")you are referring to but that's not a 30 day no quibble refund.  That Regulation gives the consumer certain rights to cancel a contract of sale even if the goods are not defective (and longer if the supplier fails to spell-out a consumer's' rights).  What the Regulation doesn't allow you to do is try-out the goods and then return them, you have to return the goods unused and in the condition received.    And remember in the UK your contract lies with the seller of the goods not the manufacturer.  The Festool 30 day return policy allows you to fully try-out the tool in your own environment and useage and is something that obviously reflects their confidence in the product.  Clearly for some people the Ti15 isn't going to be for them and that's fine, they can send it back and get their money back...No bashing here, just trying to be objective!

Troll

 

[ericbuggeln]

I am confused by that post Shane. I thought you were in the Pro Impact camp. That video mostly showed how much better the CXS is then an impact, which is my conclusion after using both in the field and in the shop. I cant see spending the money on an expensive Festool Impact Combo when you could get a modestly priced CXS and a Makita 18V Impact with charger and two batteries for $169.00 at Coastal Tools. You would have two nicely engineered tools that do one function well and for probably less then the Festool Impact combo, Eric