Festool impact drill

Ken Nagrod said:
woodwrights_corner said:
I have a question.  As a woodworker for over 40 years I have have never found a need for an impact driver.  I bought a cheap pneumatic kit but have never used it.  Granted my woodworking is not an 8 hour 5 day a week vocation, but I have had a wide variety of experiences from furniture to framing and remodel.  No, I am not required to "go fast" all of the time.  A little beeswax, soap or liquid detergent has gotten me by all these years.  

So help me, why and when should I be using an impact driver?   Personally, I dislike the noise.  I could see using an impact driver for lag bolts on a large deck or ledger boards, but other than that I am at a loss.

Please help me uderstand.

Thinking about my use of drills during woodworking and during construction/renovation, I can't come up with a good reason why a woodworker would need an impact feature unless you're making very large pieces that require driving larger screws into dense woods and don't want the torque reaction you might get with a drill/driver.  A cabinetmaker/installer might find it useful for speed of installation into wall studs and then there's stairbuilding where it could be useful.  Of course you can put your beadboard up twice as fast.

I use 6 inch concrete screws that my t18 can't drive but impact can and I use any thing up to a 16 inch screw which both can drive but I can drive them easier with an impact. As far as the noise goes it no more anoying than a saw or router etc
 
ericbuggeln said:
I am confused by that post Shane. I thought you were in the Pro Impact camp.

Eric, I'm pro using-the-right-tool-for-the-job.  [big grin] Sometimes that's an impact, in the case of woodwright it's probably not.
 
Shane, i hear ya, the few decks i do a year i love the thing. Im thinking of surgically attaching the CXS to my hand though. I wont buy a festool impact but now im curious to test one, Eric
 
Deansocial said:
Ken Nagrod said:
woodwrights_corner said:
I have a question.  As a woodworker for over 40 years I have have never found a need for an impact driver.  I bought a cheap pneumatic kit but have never used it.  Granted my woodworking is not an 8 hour 5 day a week vocation, but I have had a wide variety of experiences from furniture to framing and remodel.  No, I am not required to "go fast" all of the time.  A little beeswax, soap or liquid detergent has gotten me by all these years.  

So help me, why and when should I be using an impact driver?   Personally, I dislike the noise.  I could see using an impact driver for lag bolts on a large deck or ledger boards, but other than that I am at a loss.

Please help me uderstand.

Thinking about my use of drills during woodworking and during construction/renovation, I can't come up with a good reason why a woodworker would need an impact feature unless you're making very large pieces that require driving larger screws into dense woods and don't want the torque reaction you might get with a drill/driver.  A cabinetmaker/installer might find it useful for speed of installation into wall studs and then there's stairbuilding where it could be useful.  Of course you can put your beadboard up twice as fast.

I use 6 inch concrete screws that my t18 can't drive but impact can and I use any thing up to a 16 inch screw which both can drive but I can drive them easier with an impact. As far as the noise goes it no more anoying than a saw or router etc

I used to use  my Hilti combo drill to put 125mm concrete screws in, until one day i hit a lintel with it.... It snapped the concrete screw and nearly snapped my wrist with it [big grin]

John....
 
woodwrights_corner said:
I have a question.  As a woodworker for over 40 years I have have never found a need for an impact driver.  I bought a cheap pneumatic kit but have never used it.  Granted my woodworking is not an 8 hour 5 day a week vocation, but I have had a wide variety of experiences from furniture to framing and remodel.  No, I am not required to "go fast" all of the time.  A little beeswax, soap or liquid detergent has gotten me by all these years.  

So help me, why and when should I be using an impact driver?   Personally, I dislike the noise.  I could see using an impact driver for lag bolts on a large deck or ledger boards, but other than that I am at a loss.

Please help me uderstand.

From the sound of it the kinda work you do an impact drill wouldn't be of much use to you

If your driving in bolts into concrete and large screws into wood then a Impact drill is brilliant.

As I have found even my t15 wouldn't drill these thunderbolts I have in just stopped dead. My impact drill just flew them in easily.

Yet the T15 will drive large screws in just as easily as my impact drill but with more strain on your wrists which is another great benefit of impact here is my video demonstrating  difference between impact and driver.

Impact VS Driver
 
jmbfestool said:
BUT what im saying is the adpater is NOT needed its only NEEDED because festool made it so!  Their was no need for it.  The angle chuck COULD of been mounted directly but Festool designed it so it cant because they clearly didnt see another way of turning the impact off but they where wrong very wrong.  

Dont know if you have seen the adapter in person but imagine if you was holding the T15 drill and got a saw and cut of the end of the T15  then modified the side you cut so it would fit onto the Ti15  well that is what festool have done.   They just made a different chuck system on the Ti15 but then to make it work with the Festool SYSTEM they made the adapter to make it like a T15.

They should of kept it like the T15 and just like I keep saying is extended the internal pin inside the Ti15 OR extended the ends on all the chucks like I did in the video!  These would ALL still work on the T15 because any one who owns a T15 have a look down yours you will see T15 drill has a hole inside which will take the extended pins!  So Festool could make all new angle chucks etc but that would wind people up who already own them so it would be best to drill out a centrotec specially for the impact drill.

Any way I have mentioned my solution many times now!  FESTOOL READ IT! ADMIT TO A STUPID DESIGN! GET BACK TO THE DRAWING BOARD!  OR CONTACT ME and give me a valid reason why the adapter is needed

The TI 15 was specifically designed to prevent someone from installing a standard right-angle or offset chuck to the drill. That's because you cannot hammer on a gearset that was not designed for the hammer action. It will fracture the gear teeth. Any auto mechanic will tell you that you can't use a standard socket on an impact wrench because you will shatter the socket. A few years ago I borrowed a standard universal joint (swivel adapter) from a neighbor and used it with my impact wrench on the car. Even though I knew the risk, it was shattered in less than 5 seconds. (When I bought a replacement for him, I also purchased an impact-grade universal for myself.)

The TI 15 adapter disengages the hammer that causes the impact action.

You have indicated that Festool could have accomplished the same task by lengthening the pin inside the TI 15 so that a standard chuck would disengage the hammer. While that is true, you are forgetting about the very critical negative consequence this would have in impact mode, which is what the drill was intended for. With that pin lengthened, in order to have impact chucks not disable the hammer, their contact surface in the hex would have to be shortened, or hollowed. That will weaken the interface during an operation where the interface actually needs to be at its strongest. You're missing the forest for the trees.

The TI 15 is an impact driver, first and foremost, but has the added benefit of permitting drill-mode action without impact hammering. The intention of that is so that you can pilot drill the holes you are about to drive a large screw into without using a separate drill. Most drill bits are not designed for impact mode. Spade bits being the most susceptible.

By the way, I'm surprised no one has pointed this out yet, but in your video comparing the TI 15 and T15 driving long screws in non-impact mode, you have the T15 in 1st gear. The TI 15 does not have this added planetary gearset that engages when the T15 is in 1st gear. That's because the TI 15 is not intended to have high-torque when not in hammer mode. The differences in torque will be less pronounced if you didn't engage the extra gearset of the T15.

By their very design, impact drivers and impact wrenches do not have high torque in the rotational component of their action. If they did, they would rip your arm off and completely defeat the purpose of the hammering action. Instead of a constant high-torque action, they use sort-duration impulse force to achieve the power in their rotational action. Edit: Oh, you posted a new video while I was typing. This is actually demonstrated quite well in your newest video.
 
There are so many advantages to an impact drill.  Have you ever been screwing in something close to a wall and had the drill spin crushing your hand or making a mark in the wall from the drill spinning it and hitting it.  Impacts also spin extremely fast until  when theres a good amount of load on the drill, then it will impact and drive harder, allowing you to not have to change the drills speed.  I use my impact for so many things.  If you happen to be screwing down a corugated metal roof, impacts are great cause they spin the screw in so fast most of the way and then hammer once the screw head hits the metal or toughness in the wood.  But what I like MY impact for is extremely hard driving screws, and also lag bolts.  I don't need to test the Ti 15 if I know it's not the most powerful, and that's what I want in MY impact.  I didn't mean to say the ti15 is junk at all, I bet it's great for most things but for ME,,, if I'm driving a lag into a sill plate, I need some power.  Also impacts are very light in comparison to other drills, and I find they use less power  over time than other drills.  I do everything from roofing to custom cabinetry , and if you do the latter, yeah who the heck needs an impact. But to say impacts have no use is laughable, unless you hire most work to be done on your home or apartments you own.  I like to use an impact for putting up stud walls too.  Anyone ever come across turn of the century old growth wood? Well i buy old colonial homes and turn them into apartments, so that wood in them is very hard.  Why setup an air compressor to only put up a small wall? If you want an impact for most things, get the ti15.  I want one that's the most powerful.  Don't get upset with my needs, many probably haven't even thought about it, like folks who don't see a need for them.   Impacts are the bomb, use mine every other day.

I read on hear the ti15 is not as powerful as the t15.  If  that's not true I apologize.  I have used the t15.
 
jmbfestool said:
Regarding the hex being shortened or hollowed I'm pretty sure festool could of some how worked around that's stead of this adapter.  To me just removing the modified Jacob juck and adapter would totally improve my opinion towards the drill.

The field of engineering is very complex. You cannot make what appears to be a simple change to one part without examining the ramifications on the entire rest of the system. The ECO (Engineering Change Order) process exists specifically to mitigate this. No single person can implement a change without review from all other areas. The Hyatt Regency Walkway Collapse is a perfect example of this that killed 114 people. The single-point calculations showed no difference, but the person forgot to examine all of the downstream loading that resulted.

You are correct in that the shortened interface could be strengthened. However, that automatically negates your requirement for it to be compatible with the existing 1/4" hex drive of all other Festool chucks. The two design requirements would be in conflict. It's is what we call a "blockpoint design". You cannot make it backward compatible while still meeting the new design requirements.

The adapter prevents someone from circumventing the design and destroying their existing tools. It protects the end-user from themselves.

jmbfestool said:
You see your spending ALOT of money on this drill mainly because it has a special feature. Now if the impact had more power than it's competitors I would over look the adapter but seen as its like any normally impact drill the special feature comes into play to justify the money.

To date, your videos have simply demonstrated the difference in rotational speed, but they have not demonstrated any difference in impact rotational forces. It is this impact rotational force that is of greatest interest when it comes to an impact driver.

Don't get me wrong. I have no idea which of your impact drivers would have the greater impact rotational force. It could be the Festool, or it could be the Milwaukee. But what is important is that your testing does not reveal this. It is simply showing the rotational speed at less than maximum loading.

If you really wanted to find out how tough these two drivers were, then you would use a lag screw that was so large (in diameter) that neither impact driver could fully drive it. You put them both to their maximum impact capabilities, and speed is removed from the equation. Which one can hammer the hardest?

Going back to an automotive analogy, there is a huge difference in the power of various impact wrenches. My cheap Campbell Hausefeld impact wrench couldn't even budge the bolt for the K-Member frame on the car. So I went back to this same neighbor (a professional mechanic) and borrowed his Ingersol Rand impact wrench. It broke the bolt loose in a few seconds of hammering. How fast they can spin a light load has nothing to do with how much hammering power they can deliver.
 
jmbfestool said:
Haahaa lol  yeah! I have had my drill hit me in the side of my head when I was on a ladder! It took me out for a few minutes really hurt that did!    

Yup! We've all experienced that at one time or another.

Here's a picture of Hasslefactor getting whacked in the head when my C12 spun 120 degrees after bottoming out the lag screw in oak.

[attachimg=#1]

I've been whacked in the head so many times that I anticipate it before it happens. Note how I am holding the C12 to prevent this from happening to me. I also knew not to have the trigger at full as the lag screw approached bottoming out. (I had to reinstall the same lag screw later after some test-fitting.)

[attachimg=#2]
 
jmbfestool said:
here is my video demonstrating  difference between impact and driver.

ON a side note, I am completely surprised to find that while working, jmb mutters to himself by mimicking BBC broadcasters verbatim....even the accent.
 
jmbfestool said:
Im not sure what happens inside the screw and wood but it some how tightens up with the Festool Ti15 making it impossible for the Ti15 to carry on and alot more difficult for the Milwuakee to carry on driving the screw in deeper.

Probably attributable to one of the following:

  1) Too much force causes a rip in the time space fabric resulting a tachyon pulse emission which modifies the screw  [big grin]
  2) Just random changes in the density of the wood as you screw into different locations.

As for Milwaukee (all the way from the start), it could be that you have good momentum vs. starting with the screw half way in.
 
Here is the video

Just another Note

The Ti15 isnt a bad Impact so dont get me wrong its okay.  Maybe not as powerfull as the Milwaukee BUT  what I found when pushing the Milwaukee hard it was getting very very warm/hot I recon if I kept on going it would get very HOT and then burn out.

The Ti15 on the other hand kept very cool at most it was slightly warm.   I have pushed both drills hard but Max out the Ti15 so would expect that to get the hottest but it didnt I would assume this is because its a brushlles  motor but its very good that it doesnt get hot even under a lot of strain.  I would assume a drill staying cooler will last longer! +1 to Ti15

Also what I like about the Ti5 +1 is the magnet holder it has the ones the T15 has above the battery at the front but it ALSO has some slots on both sides of the drill along the bottom which are magnetic for storing bits! I have found it handy for storing  wood drill bits.

Festool MAX OUT

JMB
 
Just for the record: The Milwaukee M18 impact driver has a brushless motor. It also has three settings--different combinations of RPM and torque--which make it somewhat more versatile. But the feature that pulled me in was the battery charger, because it handles both the M12 and the M18 batteries.
 
jmbfestool said:
Thats the NEW impact drill which currently is not available in the UK.  I would love to get my hands on one when it comes out though.  See how powerfull it is.  The one I use in the video is a 4 pole motor.

JMB
I'll swap you one for a CMS unit!!!
 
Hello!

I have been using the Festool Ti15 for various jobs now  from cabinet work to 1st fix 2nd fix to heavy use type of work.

Like I said the Impact isnt bad.  For light and heavy use it seems to perform well.

I have been trying to use the drilling feature as much as possible on the Ti15.

I do like the drilling feature but I dont think its of much use for anything above 12mm it struggles and comes to a stop.  

So again its only really for pilot holes.   So for professionals I dont believe this is a drill to buy to be a two in one drill. You will HAVE to have a second drill if you buy the Ti15 for professional use its not a regular drill replacement.

IF your more of a hobbiest and dont want to buy TWO drills then maybe this drill will work for you but it does depend on what type of work you do as I said before it wont drill large holes.  I have been able to manage just with the Ti15 on some jobs but often I have had to get my T15drill out because the Ti15 couldnt handle it in drill mode.  

Something I didnt pick up at first but after using the drill I found out the Variable speed control is pretty pointless in Impact mode.  I thought I would try the variable speed for a bit in impact mode AND drill mode to see what the difference was.  

Well in Drill mode it just slows the drill speed down which is obvious      

Well in IMPACT mode I thought setting the variable speed to 1 (lowest) it would slow the speed down which it does but also reduce the impact BUT it does something COMPLETELY different which I would never of thought off!    

Well just before the drills impact kicks in the drill speeds up rapidly up to full speed (speed 6 highest)  like I never even adjusted the variable speed.   So the variable speed in impact mode only works as long as the impact doesn't kick in.  

JMB
 
I have had more time with the drill.   My opinion is still pretty much the same really.  Like I said impact mode is perfectly fine

Although I like the magnet bit holder feature on the sides as well as on top still.

I did a video just showing the drill in Impact I thought I would do a video just in drill mode not a great video but it shows my point.

Festool Ti15 Drill
 
Does anyone know if my 2.6 batteries from my T-15 are compatible with the TI 15?
 
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