Festool in-general

[Kev]

[size=11pt]
Did not know there were so many new Festool products for (us) 'Down Under'!   [eek]

Do you mean apart from the "green Protools" ?

No Kev, I was referencing the replys above from No 32 on!   [big grin]

Doh! [embarassed]

(Only I'd just been looking at our new Festool brochure http://www.tooltechnicsystems.com.au/files/campaigns/jan-2014/Festool_Campaign_Brochure_Artwork_Jan-April_2014_-_low_res_spreads.pdf )

 

[rst]

As an older woodworker that has been involved in producing sawdust since 1971, besides the outstanding finished items the systems turnout; the dust collection is outstanding.  Eventually I became allergic to wood dust; my eyes became inflamed and I had to spend a bunch of $s for a forced ventilation dust mask.  I also spend a LOT of money and time adapting my existing tools for vac collection.  Festool has solved all of those issues.  Allergies can sneak up on anyone, even after years and years.  Festool may just prevent this eventuality for many.

 

[Stone Message]

As an older woodworker that has been involved in producing sawdust since 1971, besides the outstanding finished items the systems turnout; the dust collection is outstanding.  Eventually I became allergic to wood dust; my eyes became inflamed and I had to spend a bunch of $s for a forced ventilation dust mask.  I also spend a LOT of money and time adapting my existing tools for vac collection.  Festool has solved all of those issues.  Allergies can sneak up on anyone, even after years and years.  Festool may just prevent this eventuality for many.

I absolutely agree with this - yes, dust can get the better of you and YES Festool really have nailed dust collection in all of their tool designs.

Peter

 

[andy5405]

I am just a hobbiest...

Finally! I am going to say something about this finally.

I have seen this phrase a lot here on the FOG this year: "just" a hobbyist...like somehow that's an inferior status. There is much talent among the hobbyists here on the FOG. Likely more than in the general population.

While I am a pro finisher, I too am "just" a hobbyist and total DIY in woodworking and home remodeling projects. Most of the hobbyists here blow me away, and I learn bunches from them.

I couldn't agree more and I'm jealous of people's hobbyist status and I think they have advantages over professionals that often make them better woodworkers. I'm a "professional" which really means that I'm a jack of all trades and a master of none and don't get to always choose which skills I want to perfect. I mainly do kitchen and bathrooms and have acquired a reasonable amount of knowledge over the years.  I'm what the Screwfix forum in the UK call a "career change cowboy" and I am a converted DIYer. I worked for 10 years in the computer industry before that. I used to take on all sorts of things when I was more of a handyman but over a 10 year period as my finish has improved I have actually come to realise my limitations and will use specialist sub-contractors more than I used to.

I would like to take on more carpentry work as I'm certainly well enough equipped to do it but I have less confidence to do so nowadays. I could perhaps produce high quality carpentry work but not in a time that would enable me to make a living. I might also have to have two attempts at a project to get it to a finished level that I'm happy with and I can't do that in customer's houses. They want quality with minimum disruption so it needs to be done SAS style. By that I mean in and out fast and efficiently and no-one knows you've been there.

Hobbyists have none of these commercial time shackles and can take on whatever project they like regardless of whether they have enough previous experience or not. It also doesn't matter if it's not commercially viable or if it turns out to be lemon. They can just make another one till they get to whatever their desired standard is. I think that freedom allows hobbyists to develop their skill level way beyond that of many professionals. We just keep repeating and refining what we are good at and use specialist trades where we think it is appropriate.

The professional approach of using specialists rather than doing it all yourself can also eat into your confidence to take new things on. A pecking order exists and is often expressed in the  form of banter and humour on site. I will take the ****  out of my electrician if he tries to do something that I consider to be part of my specialist skill set. He will do likewise with me if I go near anything electrical and will just raise his eyebrows and make some comment about a tractor driver being let loose with an electrical screwdriver! (I grew up on a farm BTW) This banter exists amongst all the trades and we are basically marking out our territory and protecting our income stream.

I wish I had the freedom to be a hobbyist as I could do what I liked when I liked. I've seen some amazing work on here from hobbyists and although many projects would never be commercially viable the process of making them often takes their skill level way beyond what professionals can afford to produce. I'd give my right arm to have the skill set of many of the hobbyists on here. They would probably be of no use to me at all on site and that is not a criticism by any means. My world is about maximum speed and getting paid and isn't anywhere near as much fun or rewarding as saying to yourself that today I can do whatever I want.

 

[jools]

I agree with you Andy. I too joined the construction industry from a farming background where most carpentry consisted of a bigger nail/hammer/string etc. Wood working was a hobby and I turned out the odd chair and table etc. 15 years ago I took the plunge and changed careers starting at the bottom of the ladder as a labourer. I now have my own building firm doing renovation on Victorian/ Georgian properties. I use a small team of subbies for plumbing,electrical, groundwork and do the rest myself. Taking on jobs outside your previous skill sett helps you develop your skills for the future. I had no work for a few weeks so worked in a joinery shop for free just to learn a different skill sett. I only wish I had free time to build some of the things that I want to but have no work shop space for. I am sure a lot of hobby woodworkers could survive in the contractor environment and a lot of contractors can produce beautiful bespoke pieces. It's always been driven by economic forces and many of us give added value for no reward other than our own satisfaction on a job well done.
I buy festool because it saves me money in the long run both in applications and clean up.

Regards

 

[andy5405]

I am sure a lot of hobby woodworkers could survive in the contractor environment and a lot of contractors can produce beautiful bespoke pieces.

I agree with that and my post might be misleading. I certainly didn't mean that there is no crossover. It's more about the different pressures a contractor or hobbyist faces. Time pressures certainly exist in the hobbyist world and I think a hobbyist posted on this thread that the reduced clean up time from Festool enables more quality time with family.

BTW my career was farm, computer industry then kitchens and bathrooms. I'd still rather be out on the marsh on my Muir Hill pulling a Dowdeswell. I can remember carpentry from my farming days too. We had one guy working for us and his Dad was an old school shop fitter. I'm talking about the 70's when he started working for us. He learnt carpentry from my Dad. His dad (the shopfitter) was absolutely horrified at what my dad taught him!

 

[jools]

It's always about time. Spending today flooring out 2 bathrooms so the plumber and tiler can start on Monday! Ts55 and mft/3 set up and hopefully home by 4pm. If I ever get to retire then I will gladly become a hobbyist.

 

[C.L. Construction]

I thought i would add my views on the subject.

I do not have a lot of Festool currently because i am a young contractor who has a young family to feed (beautiful wife and two small, but very active boys). I, like many, started off with the TS55 and guide rails. i later added the PS300 jigsaw when my ten year old Bosch quite on me. I recently added the ETS125 sander to the mix to replace a Bosch sander.

I went back and forth on whether the expense of Festool was really justified. They are very expensive and are sometime hard to justify the cost when starting out like i am. My wife finally convinced me to just buy the track saw and not worry about it. After i used it a few times i was hooked. I used it in conjunction with a Ridgid shop vac because it was all i had. All i can saw is that Festool has changed how i approach my work. The track saw is my most used tool besides my tape measure. I use it for everything from custom cabinetry to cutting sheathing while framing so they are VERY rugged. It rains a lot in Western Washington.

I will soon be adding at CT MIDI, RO90 and DTS400 to my arsenal, and will be buying a kapex in the next few months. So all that to say that it really comes down to what you will use the tools for. As a contractor Festool makes me money and are a real joy to use. They also help to keep me healthy. The less dust i breath now the longer i can keep doing what i love.

 

[semenza]

Welcome to the forum, Heirloom.

Glad you are having such a good experience with Festool!

Seth

 

[Jesse Cloud]

Back to the hobbyist and pro discussion, first of all a disclaimer - I am a hobbyist.

I don't think the issue is so much that pros know what they are doing and hobbyists don't.  There are some darn good hobbyists out there and some not so great "pros". 
So I cut folks a lot of slack.

My biggest peeve is when a hobbyist gets up on a high horse and puts down someone for using a shortcut.  I'm actually a retired hobbyist, so I have a lot of control over my time, so I can take the time to glue and clamp and to let varnish cure for a week or two.  But if I needed to get in and out in a day to make a living, I know I would pull out the pocket screw jig first thing and still make product that the customer would love.

One other peeve is those folk who get up on their soapbox and defend a technique with "Well, I was taught to ...." and have somehow concluded that its the only way to do something.  I started woodworking fifty years ago working summers as a carpenter's helper (remember those?), and I still hope to learn a new thing or two everyday!

End of rant, thanks for listening.

 

[tiralie]

I thought i would add my views on the subject.

I do not have a lot of Festool currently because i am a young contractor who has a young family to feed (beautiful wife and two small, but very active boys). I, like many, started off with the TS55 and guide rails. i later added the PS300 jigsaw when my ten year old Bosch quite on me. I recently added the ETS125 sander to the mix to replace a Bosch sander.

I went back and forth on whether the expense of Festool was really justified. They are very expensive and are sometime hard to justify the cost when starting out like i am. My wife finally convinced me to just buy the track saw and not worry about it. After i used it a few times i was hooked. I used it in conjunction with a Ridgid shop vac because it was all i had. All i can saw is that Festool has changed how i approach my work. The track saw is my most used tool besides my tape measure. I use it for everything from custom cabinetry to cutting sheathing while framing so they are VERY rugged. It rains a lot in Western Washington.

I will soon be adding at CT MIDI, RO90 and DTS400 to my arsenal, and will be buying a kapex in the next few months. So all that to say that it really comes down to what you will use the tools for. As a contractor Festool makes me money and are a real joy to use. They also help to keep me healthy. The less dust i breath now the longer i can keep doing what i love.

Such a great testimonial.
Made me appreciate how lucky I am to be able to use these tools.
Tim

 

[Scott B.]

I am just a hobbiest...

Finally! I am going to say something about this finally.

I have seen this phrase a lot here on the FOG this year: "just" a hobbyist...like somehow that's an inferior status. There is much talent among the hobbyists here on the FOG. Likely more than in the general population.

While I am a pro finisher, I too am "just" a hobbyist and total DIY in woodworking and home remodeling projects. Most of the hobbyists here blow me away, and I learn bunches from them.

I couldn't agree more and I'm jealous of people's hobbyist status and I think they have advantages over professionals that often make them better woodworkers. I'm a "professional" which really means that I'm a jack of all trades and a master of none and don't get to always choose which skills I want to perfect. I mainly do kitchen and bathrooms and have acquired a reasonable amount of knowledge over the years.  I'm what the Screwfix forum in the UK call a "career change cowboy" and I am a converted DIYer. I worked for 10 years in the computer industry before that. I used to take on all sorts of things when I was more of a handyman but over a 10 year period as my finish has improved I have actually come to realise my limitations and will use specialist sub-contractors more than I used to.

I would like to take on more carpentry work as I'm certainly well enough equipped to do it but I have less confidence to do so nowadays. I could perhaps produce high quality carpentry work but not in a time that would enable me to make a living. I might also have to have two attempts at a project to get it to a finished level that I'm happy with and I can't do that in customer's houses. They want quality with minimum disruption so it needs to be done SAS style. By that I mean in and out fast and efficiently and no-one knows you've been there.

Hobbyists have none of these commercial time shackles and can take on whatever project they like regardless of whether they have enough previous experience or not. It also doesn't matter if it's not commercially viable or if it turns out to be lemon. They can just make another one till they get to whatever their desired standard is. I think that freedom allows hobbyists to develop their skill level way beyond that of many professionals. We just keep repeating and refining what we are good at and use specialist trades where we think it is appropriate.

The professional approach of using specialists rather than doing it all yourself can also eat into your confidence to take new things on. A pecking order exists and is often expressed in the  form of banter and humour on site. I will take the ****  out of my electrician if he tries to do something that I consider to be part of my specialist skill set. He will do likewise with me if I go near anything electrical and will just raise his eyebrows and make some comment about a tractor driver being let loose with an electrical screwdriver! (I grew up on a farm BTW) This banter exists amongst all the trades and we are basically marking out our territory and protecting our income stream.

I wish I had the freedom to be a hobbyist as I could do what I liked when I liked. I've seen some amazing work on here from hobbyists and although many projects would never be commercially viable the process of making them often takes their skill level way beyond what professionals can afford to produce. I'd give my right arm to have the skill set of many of the hobbyists on here. They would probably be of no use to me at all on site and that is not a criticism by any means. My world is about maximum speed and getting paid and isn't anywhere near as much fun or rewarding as saying to yourself that today I can do whatever I want.

Couldn't agree more, Andy. That is in some ways why I have limited the extent to which my company crosses over into carpentry and woodworking. Would rather keep those preserved as serious hobbies and personal pursuits.

When you take the thing you love and try to make a living with it, it can be a slippery slope where you twist and turn it a bit out of necessity, and if you don't keep an eye on it, you can end up doing something that looks nothing like the thing you started out loving.

We all have to be careful of that, regardless of occupation.