Festool is getting expensive!

[Birdhunter]

I don't think many people make the connection between "feel good" legislation and higher product costs. Most of the "free stuff" that politicians dole out to gain votes from the low information voters is eventually paid for by people who buy products be it tools or hamburgers. Festool products and hamburgers and whatever will continue to increase in cost as long as politicians continue to gain votes by providing more "free stuff".

I will continue to buy Festool products realizing they, like most manufacturing companies, are caught up in the political situation. The only reason I would stop buying Festool is if the cut quality to avoid price increases.

 

[unityroad]

I guess for the Hobby wood worker Festool could be viewed as expensive. However those of us that remodel, build one off cabinets for jobs where the kitchen people forgot to order one Festool's really shine. I have friends that I consider weekend warriors. It's painful to watch. They spend all weekend working on a project with marginal results. They always think their time is free. Clients really seem to enjoy seeing a professional show up, identify the problem quickly resolve the problem and move on. There is no drama when I show up. Designers, Kitchen cabinet shops love it when there is someone that can cover their butt when things need to be corrected quickly before the client looses their mind. I have to produce things quickly. Yes the vendors and designers know there will be up charges for these situations. Compared to what? A client that tells their friends we all run a Mickey Mouse operation? So in my world Festool always gives me known reproducible results. So to me prices are what they are.

 

[sae]

Factor in that the US dollar has strengthened 40% against the euro in the past five years and has strengthened against it even in just the past few months and I struggle to understand why the US customers are being charged more in USD

So we can support them while the Euro is failing. Duh.

It's not about WHERE your profits come from, it's about how much you can milk from each person.

 

[sae]

I guess for the Hobby wood worker Festool could be viewed as expensive. However those of us that remodel, build one off cabinets for jobs where the kitchen people forgot to order one Festool's really shine. I have friends that I consider weekend warriors. It's painful to watch. They spend all weekend working on a project with marginal results. They always think their time is free. Clients really seem to enjoy seeing a professional show up, identify the problem quickly resolve the problem and move on. There is no drama when I show up. Designers, Kitchen cabinet shops love it when there is someone that can cover their butt when things need to be corrected quickly before the client looses their mind. I have to produce things quickly. Yes the vendors and designers know there will be up charges for these situations. Compared to what? A client that tells their friends we all run a Mickey Mouse operation? So in my world Festool always gives me known reproducible results. So to me prices are what they are.

Your hypothesis would stand, maybe 10 years ago. The market landscape has changed in the last 10 years though, tracksaws that were once Festool exclusives are now offered by Bosch, Makita, Metabo, etc., at 1/2 to 3/4 the price, you can have the same capabilities with 1/2 the capital investment. Or take the money elsewhere and hire additional help. For the non core tools like the Conturo, where they are still innovations and no comparable products available, then there is still good sense in that investment.

That's how I'd grow my business anyways, I'm just a bean counter by day.

I get that fancy tools are fun though, and it's not all about the bottom line.

 

[ajones]

for me its not so much about price, but more about the quality and innovation.

 

[jools]

Festool certainly reduced my last tax bill [big grin]. As did dewalt, Metabo and Citroen. Price is market dependent and companies set prices too what customers are prepared to pay. Selling low involves selling volume, something specialist tool suppliers are never going to achieve. Research and development cost has to be paid for. If you think the Festool price is warranted by the tools performance and innovation then buy the thing. If not, buy another brand. My festools work every day and have paid for themselves. If I needed a router twice a year would I choose Festool? Probably not. would I buy a planex for the one occasion a year I would use it, no. Would I buy a planex if it could get me additional work I currently refuse then yes I would. Horses for courses
Regards jools

 

[Mort]

In the grand scheme of things, a few percentage bump isn't a lot considering the starting price of these tools anyway.

However...

I've given up on some Festools based on price alone in the first place. The Kapex, MFTs, dust extractors. I'm sure they're excellent, but priced at least 2x too high for my hobbyist self to consider. I don't have work-flow and time-is-money considerations in this aspect, so they don't make sense.

There are also some that are borderline for me. The price is still too high, but the quality and features would offset it. The RO150, the OF1400, both of these were on my sooner-rather-than-later list. I'll now be looking at Bosch and DeWalt for these instead.

The extra $10-15 is not the issue, its the principle of the thing. The increases don't make any sense. Fuel is cheap, the exchange rates are favorable, there aren't any redesigns that we know of.

When I worked for a Ford dealer, the prices of the trucks increased a little each year. That way, when a new generation comes along, the R&D is paid for, and the price increase from one generation to the next is incremental rather than a huge spike. Maybe that's what Festool is doing, but they'll never let on.

I'll still buy Festool when there is a clear advantage or no competition (think Domino, which I have, or RO90, which I am saving for), but I think the less I spend on Koolade the more money I'll have for beer, which I like better.

 

[mastercabman]

Well I'm glad I'm not the only who feels this way
I know that some of you think it's all about the quality of the tool but how far/much are you willing to pay for those tools?
So you think it's just a 1%-2% increase
But that's from last year price
The reality is the price has increased much more than that!
Take the ts55,when I got it in 2005 it was $420.00(I think)
Now look how much it is$660.00 that's over 50% increase!
3 weeks ago I went to Woodcraft store to drop off 2 blades for resharpening
So I pick up 2 replacement blades(for the ts55)and 1 long roll of antisplitering strip
I go to the counter.....$200.00!!!!
Wow!  If I recall those blades used to be around $40
For the 48t. Now it is $76.00.  That is a huge increase
Yes I do like my Festool but this is getting way too much
Especially now you can get other brands for a lot less
How much are you willing to pay for a Festool track saw?      $700?  $800?    How about $1000.00?
I'm just trying to imagine how much the kapex will cost in 5 years from now......$2000.00?
Who knows.
Spending $1300 for the kapex was hard enough
If I need to replace it I will be looking at other brands

 

[jimbo51]

Festool price increases are economic issues largely related to decisions made within Festool regarding their profit margins and capital needs for future expansion etc.  How about no political comments which are not even relevant to this topic.

 

[Biffsbench]

Hmm, perhaps my TS55 has appreciated in value and I could sell for a profit from the 2005 price.  [big grin]

That seems to be happening, I have seen a couple of ads lately for 2 year products and they are quoting the 2016 replacement cost and asking very close to or more than the 2014 price. For example I was considering a used Domino XL, but it was two years old, and half the dominos were used, was not much more to get a brand new unit with full warranty.

 

[ewils91]

I know they are professional tools marketed toward the professional trades. However they still have issues, sometimes right out of the box. I can only speak for myself but I have had both good and bad experiences with Festool warranty service and would be a liar if I said my experiences were always roses. Case in point is my TS75, Festool was never able to correct the horrendous run out it had right out of the box, I bought the parts and repaired it myself after sending it back 3 times.

Yes the majority of the price increases were on the smaller items and consumables but there are increases for the tools as well and as a professional who would like to expand their Festool stable it is still expensive and it does come out of profits even when it is tax deductible.

I myself love the Festool line and the vast capability it has, however it is my opinion that the price increases may keep some of us from expanding the stable of Festool equipment we own unless there is a need for a tool that only they can supply.

 

[Jozsef Kozma]

I don't like price increases but also know that lots of times it is unavoidable to stay on a profit course
We vote with our valet
To me as a professional who uses this tools daily ,the tool purchases I make are based on need to make my product good quality ,profitable  ,make my job easier
I don't always agree with festool practices (availability of products) but all in all the tools I purchased from festool performed very well (I am in the minority who loves his impact driver)
Tools from other manufacturers are considered the same way
In the last 30 years , I been criticized by my family ,friends and coworkers for spending to much on tools ( less criticized lately)
But lot of this people ended following the same path
Also brand names were always premium price ,and most of the time  they outperformed their compatation
With this forum they also want to hear from us , so let them know what is troubling us

 

[WastedP]

We vote with our valet

Well, if I could afford a valet, I'd have no issue with the price of Festool.  I might even have him operate them for me.

In all seriousness, the tracksaw paid for itself really quickly.

Sometimes you get what you pay for.  When you go cheap, sometimes you get less.

 

[JJ Wavra]

Its is not that the price increase is only 3% give or take, it is the fact that it is this every year.  The prices continue to go up and I have started to look other places.  This is evident when you have purchased their products for an extended time and look at what you paid vs. what it is now like Mastercabman mentioned.  Other countries have higher rates for festool product, I understand that.  But, you also have sales and promotion that make you think great I have a chance to get even a little deal.  Here we only occasionally get a sale on one specific tool but that is not common or product line wide.  Further for me is their newest promotion where is was not a thank you I hope you can benefit from this, rather it was help us get customers and then we will throw you a bone.  I buy quite a lot of high end tools, mostly hand tools, and there is a vendor while priced high I felt was a justifiable cost for the quality and function they represent.  They recently had about a 30% price increase to their line and the hundreds of dollars I was going to spend over then next year have gone to $0.  There has to be perceived value and quality and festool has checked a lot of those boxes in the past but it remains to be seen if that feeling remains in the future.

 

[DB10]

  Is Festool getting expensive?
    Well down here it's always been expensive, too expensive for most trades, which is why they all tend to buy into Makita or Bosch, then expand on that range later on.
I don't know of any apprentices or trainees that use Festool and I know in my younger days I wouldn't have been able to afford to use them either.
It's a shame that the younger generation are missing out on some great tools but it's also a shame that Festool is missing out on getting brand loyalty form the next generation who are starting out. Simply they are just too expensive for most people to ever consider.

 

[Bohdan]

Other countries have higher rates for festool product, I understand that.  But, you also have sales and promotion that make you think great I have a chance to get even a little deal.  Here we only occasionally get a sale on one specific tool but that is not common or product line wide.

Here in Oz not only are the prices thru the roof but they are fixed, with government collusion, to full retail only. The sales promotions are an occasional $50 voucher on specific tools, or an occasional bundling discount on tools and accessories. The big discount is that sometimes you can get free delivery.

In NA the prices are so much lower that we feel that you have a permanent sale on, and you can negotiate a better deal by shopping around.

 

[kixnbux]

Pretty simple for me... I'll keep buying them without hesitation. My tools make my living. Give me vacation money, living money, play money and tool money. What difference does it make what it costs, if its increasing your production rates by even small amounts. Over several years it's nothing. Yes I'd pay $1,000 for a Tracksaw. $2,000 for a CMS table and OF1400. Peanuts really in the grand scheme of things. And I'm only 29 years old. Started with almost all dewalt. Now almost 50% Festool at least. I bought all my most often used tools in Festool to begin the brand. Then I keep adding as I work at a rate of $1,000-$3,000 per month til I get everything I want. Yes it may keep some from even starting to buy a tool but most who want to improve themselves do research on these things anyway. They'll find out what the best is and try something, then more and more until they have the addiction too lol

 

[WelshWood]

I am not wishing to start a war and these comments are only valid in the UK.

Are Festool Expensive? NO

Festool are professional grade tools marketed to the Professional (those that make a living with them)
So depending on the size and setup of your business, you can reclaim 20% of the purchase cost (VAT) within 12 weeks and depending on how my accountant wants to deal with the purchase . The cost can be written of against my  tax liability over 1>3 years .Consumables are classed as overhead so are fully tax deductable 

So in essence the tools cost me nothing in the end .

It sucks for the hobbist and diyer and amatuer but i am sure there must be similar tax breaks for the professional globaly

This pretty much sums it up.

Speaking from a professional perspective, is Festool expensive?

No.

I cannot afford to buy cheap tools.

Festool is an investment, period.

It is expensive to start off, but the weighing in the quality of work it allows you to do, the quality of the machines, and the general speed that you are able to do things is another thing altogether..

Festool actually earns me money,

As mentioned before, as a DIYer/Hobbyist it is expensive, but as a professional, it's brilliant value for money!

~WW

 

[AIPDX]

It is simple, guys. Festool carved for itself a niche in upper end tool market and created a very successful marketing / advertisement tools (like FOG) which keeps owners engaged. They do not directly compete with box stores brands, very much in the same way as Chevrolet does not really compete with Lexus or Acura. They have a narrow market in which they enjoy monopoly and can set the prices as high as the market can tolerate. I bet they look at sales of each item every year and those which sell well get price increases... until sales slow down. They do not care about us complaining, in the same way how they consistently ignore proposals for improvement that come from end users.

It is an "investment" only because they fixed the prices and because they always raise the prices. Well, it is not really an investment because tools depreciate and spare parts cost a fortune. But at least one can sell a tool for more than a garage sale price. Anyhow,  if they had "40% off" sales and dealers could sell them at any price, as any other brand, and if Home Depot carried Festool, a 2-days old tool would sell for half the price of a new one. There is no magic. Limited supply, limited demand, and no price flexibility. This does not work as a growing market model, but apparently Festool is not going after someone's else market and is not trying to penetrate a lower end consumer market. They are happy within their little niche. Small volumes, good margins, good customer service for the owners.

No point in complaining. A premium price for a "designer brand" tool. Are designer brand clothes expensive? Are premium car brands expensive? Is premium sporting gear expensive? Are they worth it? Are they better? Do you need them? Depends on your system of values, you budget, and your applications. No right or wrong.

If you want to feel better... Their average annual increases is about in line with overall inflation. Government statistics tells us that inflation is on average in the ballpark of 3% per year. Some people think it is as high as 4 to 5%.  Milk gets more expensive every year, eggs get more expensive, and so are Festool tools.

 

[ewils91]

It is simple, guys. Festool carved for itself a niche in upper end tool market and created a very successful marketing / advertisement tools (like FOG) which keeps owners engaged. They do not directly compete with box stores brands, very much in the same way as Chevrolet does not really compete with Lexus or Acura. They have a narrow market in which they enjoy monopoly and can set the prices as high as the market can tolerate. I bet they look at sales of each item every year and those which sell well get price increases... until sales slow down. They do not care about us complaining, in the same way how they consistently ignore proposals for improvement that come from end users.

It is an "investment" only because they fixed the prices and because they always raise the prices. Well, it is not really an investment because tools depreciate and spare parts cost a fortune. But at least one can sell a tool for more than a garage sale price. Anyhow,  if they had "40% off" sales and dealers could sell them at any price, as any other brand, and if Home Depot carried Festool, a 2-days old tool would sell for half the price of a new one. There is no magic. Limited supply, limited demand, and no price flexibility. This does not work as a growing market model, but apparently Festool is not going after someone's else market and is not trying to penetrate a lower end consumer market. They are happy within their little niche. Small volumes, good margins, good customer service for the owners.

No point in complaining. A premium price for a "designer brand" tool. Are designer brand clothes expensive? Are premium car brands expensive? Is premium sporting gear expensive? Are they worth it? Are they better? Do you need them? Depends on your system of values, you budget, and your applications. No right or wrong.

If you want to feel better... Their average annual increases is about in line with overall inflation. Government statistics tells us that inflation is on average in the ballpark of 3% per year. Some people think it is as high as 4 to 5%.  Milk gets more expensive every year, eggs get more expensive, and so are Festool tools.

Amen, well said,