Festool is (partially) moving to imperial in North America

[ear3]

[thumbs up]

Maybe the MFS will be reborn in imperial?  [wink] [wink]  [big grin]

 

[clark_fork]

Festool appeals to the elitist user; cabinet makers who seek a competitive advantage, mainly in productivity. Read any woodworking magazine about shops and  shop machine layouts. All have the "Norm Abrams" look with none showing a MFT, LR32-system, Parallel Guides.  This decision is not going to turn the average American framer/finish carpenter into a Festool customer. These are "Skil-Saw" users and always will be.  It took 79 days for "Old Coke" to be put back on the shelf. Start counting...

It is a good exercise, though, "an intelligent risk".

"The Coca-Cola Company introduced reformulated Coca-Cola, often referred to as "new Coke," marking the first formula change in 99 years. The company didn't set out to create the firestorm of consumer protest that ensued; instead, The Coca-Cola Company intended to re-energize its Coca-Cola brand and the cola category in its largest market, the United States.

That firestorm ended with the return of the original formula, now called Coca-Cola classic, a few months later. The return of original formula Coca-Cola on July 11, 1985, put the cap on 79 days that revolutionized the soft-drink industry, transformed The Coca-Cola Company and stands today as testimony to the power of taking intelligent risks, even when they don't quite work as intended."

 

[ear3]

I think tempest in a teapot is going to sue this thread for copyright infringement.

 

[chrisrosenb]

[thumbs up]

Maybe the MFS will be reborn in imperial?  [wink] [wink]  [big grin]

I would replace my metric MFSs with an imperial version.

 

[TylerC]

Festool chose the "wrong" side in NA initially, so now they'll switch midstream, leaving current users by the wayside?

Launching in the US with imperial was never an option. If we were holding out to get imperial tools, we never could have come stateside.

 

[grbmds]

[member=49013]clark_fork[/member]  Have you watched a current season of "This Old House" recently? It would appear at least these guys aren't so locked in anymore. At least the rest of the people involved in the show seem to have moved heavily to Festool. Just making an observation. I don't think the Festool line is so elitist anymore or the company wouldn't be expanding as rapidly as it is in North America.

 

[TylerC]

I just wish I'd waited until today to announce the CXS sweepstakes winners. I was much more popular yesterday.

// logging off for the night //

 

[peter halle]

Shocked is the most polite word that I can use here.

I will refrain from further comments.

Peter

 

[six-point socket]

Hi!

I'm deliberating for quite a while now if I should write a little more than in my previous post in this thread or not. Mainly because it doesn't affect me, at least not as imminently as I honestly wish it would (but that's a different story and not for the FOG) and because I have no clue how many North American craftsmen of all trades still use imperial over metric.

But what I learned from years actively using forums and some facebook-groups is that no matter how big/how active/how frequented a forum/newsgroup is it's still just a small lake compared to an ocean (the real world). And in every lake there's only a handful of different "sea dwellers" whereas in the ocean diversity is a lot bigger. So just looking at the lake to make a representative statement about "sea dwellers" isn't going to hold up in the long run.

I wrote it in another thread, albeit a little different, the real elitist group are the users of such forums/newsgroups because they are far more educated on the respective topics than the general public and use far more different resources than any Joe Average ever would. And "Joe Average" is definitely not meant to reflect on the quality of work they deliver.

I shop online almost all over the world for stuff that I want, be it for hobbies, general goods or whatever. I did so before PayPal and before Sak's and so many others started to use international shipping/e-commerce solutions like borderfree - so I have quite some stuff that only later was introduced to the European/German market, if introduced at all. Meaning I use 110V converters or had to go through other hassle to make it work. For some I could get 230V models nowadays or slightly different variants that maybe appeal a little more to the European/German market. So I do understand when Festool wants to advance from kinda serving the "true connoisseur" that will make it work despite hassle/conversions *whatever* to serving more "Joe Averages" who want to stay in their natural habitat and surroundings.

The big question is if that will harm the relationship with existing customers. And if it does, if all those "Joe Averages" being counted on right now will make up for the eventual (purely speculative) loss of earnings from existing customers.

Also it's not so much the hobbyists or one-man-shows among the professionals that will "suffer" from this and maybe leave "the green" - but the larger companies to which tools are also a kind of consumable and who regularly buy new machines that go in the loop.

And I surely wouldn't want to see the faces of employees that (maybe) learned metric on behalf of their job or their bosses that made the move after seeing what fantastic products Festool offers, and when the next turnover is due they unpack new, imperial Festool(s). ...

But then again, this is just my personal opinion, my thoughts on this. They are worth nothing, not even two cents, because I don't work for Festool and I have no clue about what their numbers, surveys and in the end their leader's instincts predict for the future.

I only hope that Festool did think about their relations to existing customers and their Fan, err. FOG-Base Because those are the people that, albeit not solely, spread the word to the world's "Joe Averages".

I'm gonna say what I have said before - I like Festool and I wish them the best of luck with this business decision - I'm pretty sure there were enough employees involved that pondered for quite a while about this before the decision was made and announced.

Best of luck Festool!

Kind regards,
Oliver

 

[Michael Kellough]

I read the Festool Blog announcement and I scanned this entire thread and have not found any mention of what the new increments will be other than "Imperial".

I view this development with alarm. I moved to Festools to gain precision and true adjust-ability. The 1010 router for example has 1 mm increments that can be subdivided 10 times and even finer positions can be readily interpolated.

How much precision will be given up by using Imperial?
What is the finest increment that will be readable on the 1010 depth adjustment scale?

I'd like to see an example of the Imperial 1010 depth adjustment scale please.

 

[shaun.mcc]

Been busy and haven't been on the forum in awhile, but saw this announcement on facebook. While I understand this is a way to increase sales, I've spent thousands on festool and woodpeckers in investing in metric. Now, adding any tools in imperial will bug those of us with ocd that obviously pay a premium to have a system. This is poor. The first tool your potential carpenters will buy would be a ct and a track saw...perhaps you should start by offering just the track saw in both metric and imperial (despite the sticker) to see the interest and perhaps some educating on the merits and method to switch to metric, cheat sheets, etc. I have a feeling price will be the barrier. 

Btw...no shame on festool changing their mind.

Shaun

[member=11301]RVHernandez[/member] it would seem that the current loyal Festool NA customer base is not a major factor in their planning. Obviously speculation on my part, but the points you've made would make anyone in the middle of investing in Festool potential collateral damage of their changes.

We're trying to find a balance. If our current customers didn't matter, I wouldn't be responding to this thread. However, growing and reaching new craftsmen matter as well.

The reality is that most of our NA customers already have lots of imperial tools. Even if they prefer metric, imperial is hard to avoid in NA.

 

 

[Gjarman12]

I'm torn. Being in Canada we kind of have to work in both. As I prefer and feel like I have converted some to metric and it was part of my expensive jump into festool, my biggest concern is that potentially my tools only have seven years left of guaranteed service.

 

[Kev]

I read the Festool Blog announcement and I scanned this entire thread and have not found any mention of what the new increments will be other than "Imperial".

I view this development with alarm. I moved to Festools to gain precision and true adjust-ability. The 1010 router for example has 1 mm increments that can be subdivided 10 times and even finer positions can be readily interpolated.

How much precision will be given up by using Imperial?
What is the finest increment that will be readable on the 1010 depth adjustment scale?

I'd like to see an example of the Imperial 1010 depth adjustment scale please.

[member=2098]Michael[/member] Kellogg this is a classic example of Festool not innovating effectively in a marketplace that is demanding more. You are so rightly pointing out that we're talking about a lot more than a label here.

Bosch (ignoring quality or effectiveness) have stepped in with digital displays for their routers and the idea is extremely appealing to me. More improvements will be made with electronics and accuracy will be more dependent on these innovations.

Probably ironic, but I'd imagine other tool brands pay more attention to sites like the FOG than Festool does itself. Pretty obvious that a cordless tool with a dual mode digital measurement system and throw in multilingual, just because it's easy ... and you are making a tool you can sell world wide.

The flagship product for Festool is, without doubt, the track saw. At one point Festool owned the space .. now (locally in Oz) I can buy a cheap track saw and track for less than a third the price of Festool. If I want spend more than Festool, I can buy Mafell ... and if I want a familiar brand I can buy Makita, Dewalt, etc.

 

[six-point socket]

I read the Festool Blog announcement and I scanned this entire thread and have not found any mention of what the new increments will be other than "Imperial".

I view this development with alarm. I moved to Festools to gain precision and true adjust-ability. The 1010 router for example has 1 mm increments that can be subdivided 10 times and even finer positions can be readily interpolated.

How much precision will be given up by using Imperial?
What is the finest increment that will be readable on the 1010 depth adjustment scale?

I'd like to see an example of the Imperial 1010 depth adjustment scale please.

[member=2098]Michael[/member] Kellogg this is a classic example of Festool not innovating effectively in a marketplace that is demanding more. You are so rightly pointing out that we're talking about a lot more than a label here.

I agree in a heartbeat that this is a very important and intelligent question on the subject of changing to imperial measurements.

Probably ironic, but I'd imagine other tool brands pay more attention to sites like the FOG than Festool does itself.

And this makes me lol  [big grin]  [big grin]  [big grin] I'll explain why, NO OFFENSE: this exact statement can be read numerous times on a German forum of a competitor in regards to Festool seen as "other tool brands"

Made my day!

Kind regards,
Oliver

 

[Stephen B]

A couple of things here:

1. While Festool is growing very rapidly in North America, our market share is still really small.
4. It's interesting that many of the harshest responses have come from people outside of NA. Obviously, everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but it will be interesting to see how the majority of craftsmen in imperial-dominant countries respond. The non-FOG response to this so far as been largely positive.

[size=13pt]
Further thoughts from one of the 'people outside of NA' -
. 15 non North American replies out of 112 at time of drafting this and the majority of these by [member=13058]Kev[/member]. Vast majority of Nth American replies not positive about this decision.
. Obviously Metric  Canada was not fully considered. [Imperialism!  [smile]]
. The Festool 'System' is Metric, now in Nth America this strength and unity will be compromised.

[member=1674]Peter Halle[/member]  is 'shocked'. Not sure if this shock is from this decision, or the overwhelming strength of negativity to this decision by NA members. Must say if it is the latter, I too am surprised. I certainly expected there to be a backlash, but given the strength of debate in Threads discussing measurement systems, I did expect more posts in agreement. Given this FOG history, the overwhelming objection rate of replies from NA members is surprising.

 

[Paul G]

A couple of things here:

/snip/

2. Providing two versions of the same tools simply doesn't make sense. It would be far too expensive and complicated to simultaneously provide both tools. Other power tool manufacturers don't offer both metric and imperial versions of their tools either. It's easy to say, "Just make both." It's much harder to actually pull off in a financially feasible way.

/snip/

Actually it makes a lot of sense. We're not saying "just make both", Festool said they are making both. We're suggesting to sell both. Perhaps make the imperial standard and offer metric as a special order. Some more products in the supply stream adds a little more work but it provides greater consumer choice and avoids alienating all the customers who over these several years have changed to metric and want to continue doing so, not to mention the newcomers who would prefer it due to other Festool products remaining metric. And as for the other tool companies not doing it, really? If that were the Festool MO we wouldn't have tools like the domino, RO90, conturo or the many other improvements or better warranties over the other makers. Or the other way to look at it are the other makers selling imperial only saws with metric hoses as well as other metric only tools like joiners and work tables? Either way it's not what all the other guys are doing so which is better for the customers? And which sets Festool apart from the competition?

Again, don't get me wrong, I'm glad the tools will be made available in imperial and will prefer them personally, and I agree it will broaden the appeal here. But why leave the current customers who adopted metric in the lurch on their future purchases? IMO that simply doesn't make sense.

 

[Mort]

There sure is a lot of ire coming from people who won't be effected about a sticker on a track saw and a knob on a router.

I'll bet you can get yourself a sticker and knob from England for pretty cheap, warranty intact.

 

[Stephen B]

[member=57769]TylerC[/member]

Get some sleep.  [smile]
[size=8pt]

There sure is a lot of ire coming from people who won't be effected about a sticker on a track saw and a knob on a router.

I'll bet you can get yourself a sticker and knob from England for pretty cheap, warranty intact.

[Size=13pt]
You might get the knob, but from my FOG experience UK tools like in Australia already have a metric guide.

 

[Kev]

[member=57769]TylerC[/member]

Get some sleep.  [smile]
[size=8pt]

There sure is a lot of ire coming from people who won't be effected about a sticker on a track saw and a knob on a router.

I'll bet you can get yourself a sticker and knob from England for pretty cheap, warranty intact.

[Size=13pt]
You might get the knob, but from my FOG experience UK tools like in Australia already have a metric guide.

I doubt [member=57769]TylerC[/member] made the decision and was probably hoping for a positive response.

 

[Mort]

I'm also curious when Australia and the U.K. are going to start driving on the right so we can stop producing cars in right hand drive?