Festool is (partially) moving to imperial in North America

[Stephen B]

[member=57769]TylerC[/member]

Get some sleep.  [smile]
[size=8pt]

There sure is a lot of ire coming from people who won't be effected about a sticker on a track saw and a knob on a router.

I'll bet you can get yourself a sticker and knob from England for pretty cheap, warranty intact.

[Size=13pt]
You might get the knob, but from my FOG experience UK tools like in Australia already have a metric guide.

I doubt [member=57769]TylerC[/member] made the decision and was probably hoping for a positive response.

Of course this decision was made higher up [member=13058]Kev[/member]  and signed off by German HQ. I put in my comment because [member=57769]TylerC[/member] said around 10 posts ago he was going to sleep, and obviously he is awake again. In the end his sleepless night will not make this thread any better.
[size=8pt]

I'm also curious when Australia and the U.K. are going to start driving on the right so we can stop producing cars in right hand drive?

[size=13pt]
[member=46908]Mort[/member]
Why change the subject. As a FOG member I am entitled to express my thoughts in this subject and, as I said in a previous post, I am just as surprised by the NA reaction here as I am of the decision.

As to driving on the right or left. I have driven in Europe, Canada and the US. My last trip to Europe covered 20,000 Kms. I actually prefer driving on the right hand side of the road and want it adopted here.

 

[Kev]

There sure is a lot of ire coming from people who won't be effected about a sticker on a track saw and a knob on a router.

I'll bet you can get yourself a sticker and knob from England for pretty cheap, warranty intact.

A crash and burn trying to expand in NA will have a dramatic impact on a company's international business. To you it's a sticker and a knob .. to me it's a fundamental floor in understanding the market and how customers will react.

When Australia went metric you could get stickers for you speedo for a wide range of cars .. fortunately that evolved.

 

[Kev]

I'm also curious when Australia and the U.K. are going to start driving on the right so we can stop producing cars in right hand drive?

After Japan

 

[dltflt]

[member=57769]TylerC[/member] Will there be ways to retrofit with imperial measurements those tools that are switching over from metric, like what is available, for example, on the track saw?

Yes (assuming that I understand your question correctly). We will have options for you to retrofit your metric tools to imperial. Details on that will be coming in the near future.

What about the imperial to metric?

 

[jumpinthefire]

When you order your cabinet hardware you will be working in metric, no way around that and I think a lot of the Festool lineup is directed towards cabinet construction. Trying to build cabinets in standard with metric based hardware is a PIA!

I agree. Im ordering a tracksaw for future furniture & cabinet making. But I also want to use it for plywood underlayment & other rough stuff, like cutting doors and building a nice deck and maybe a set of stairs. I do have a worm drive saw, but i like the track system to keep everything straight when working alone. Plus, it makes the cost of the saw easier to swallow, And im impressed by the dust collection on my new festool sander. I plan to use the TS55  in very different work situations, with different goals. I think for most festool users, high end precision work is the norm & im surprised festool is changing part of their ecosystem to please framers, carpenters, and maybe hobbyist with deep pockets and no clue, instead of focusing on the core of their customer base,dedicated wood workers.

But I do think the metric system is a PITA for general construction. 

 

[RKA]

As an existing customer, I'm trying to understand what this means for all the related accessories for the NA market.  They will eventually go imperial with the tools?  Related tools like a CMS?  Other tools and consumables will follow? (Domino). I wouldn't give this a second thought, but because they will no longer be making metric available, I'm concerned about this vision.  Having to switch back and forth across tools and accessories is a non-starter. 

 

[GhostFist]

Hmm I'd be interested in the imperial scales for my 2200 and 1010 when available. Already have a 1/2 collet for the 2200 and a 1/4" for the 1010 (prefer 8mm shank bits for the 1010 but in this case it's nice to have both.)

 

[rizzoa13]

A good fix for this situation would be to still make the conversion to imperial for future tools but make every 110v metric tool from the UK (that is currently available, none of the Naina stuff)
available for order through US dealers. Festool as a company already has UL listing for those products so there's no hang up there.

If the metric items could be ordered from the UK then dealers wouldn't need a stockpile of both imperial and metric available. It would obviously take longer than current transit times to get those items but they'd be available and the customer who is ordering it would do so knowing it would take longer to recieve the item.

If festool backed this and still offered the 3 year warranty on those UK ordered items then everyone would be happy and you could go on introducing your imperial line in an effort to appeal to a broader US customer base. Win/win if you ask me.

 

[Kev]

A good fix for this situation would be to still make the conversion to imperial for future tools but make every 110v metric tool from the UK (that is currently available, none of the Naina stuff)
available for order through US dealers. Festool as a company already has UL listing for those products so there's no hang up there.

If the metric items could be ordered from the UK then dealers wouldn't need a stockpile of both imperial and metric available. It would obviously take longer than current transit times to get those items but they'd be available and the customer who is ordering it would do so knowing it would take longer to recieve the item.

If festool backed this and still offered the 3 year warranty on those UK ordered items then everyone would be happy and you could go on introducing your imperial line in an effort to appeal to a broader US customer base. Win/win if you ask me.

A very good point .. you could take this further and introduce the concept of an international warranty. That'd put a cat amongst the pigeons [big grin]

 

[bkharman]

Here is my take.

I love my metric tools. I don't think they make me a better woodworker, but I don't sweat it when doing everything in mm. Am I chaffed about this move to Imperial?  Maybe a little but I am also a business owner and you go where the money is. I get thousands of ideas from my current customers a month and we take most of them very seriously, but it is about where the potential customer base is. That is business 101.

For example, we target Amazon customers (AWS... Not shopping) and have turned down a lot of customers that solely run Google or Azure. It sucks to tell them we don't have a good offering for them but then when I look at the pool of 30-40 thousand new AWS customers per month, those concerns go away real quick!

As long as my MFS and domino and Incra fence don't change overnight...  I am fine with this. Those are my precision items and won't be impacted. Everything else is set by blocks, calipers and just plain old thickness of the wood.

If you choose to move on from buying Festool because of this, the large pool of potential new customers excited about imperial Festools will gladly take your place.

Cheers. Bryan.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Mort]

There sure is a lot of ire coming from people who won't be effected about a sticker on a track saw and a knob on a router.

I'll bet you can get yourself a sticker and knob from England for pretty cheap, warranty intact.

A crash and burn trying to expand in NA will have a dramatic impact on a company's international business. To you it's a sticker and a knob .. to me it's a fundamental floor in understanding the market and how customers will react.

When Australia went metric you could get stickers for you speedo for a wide range of cars .. fortunately that evolved.

I hardly think offering six tools in imperial will put Festool out of business.

 

[Mort]

I'm also curious when Australia and the U.K. are going to start driving on the right so we can stop producing cars in right hand drive?

[size=13pt]
[member=46908]Mort[/member]
Why change the subject. As a FOG member I am entitled to express my thoughts in this subject and, as I said in a previous post, I am just as surprised by the NA reaction here as I am of the decision.

As to driving on the right or left. I have driven in Europe, Canada and the US. My last trip to Europe covered 20,000 Kms. I actually prefer driving on the right hand side of the road and want it adopted here.

It's not changing the subject, it's an analogy. As someone who drives professionally on the right side of the road, I care very little what you do in Australia. It'd be cool to get one of those Holden Maloos here but other than that...

Strong opinions are fine, and I respect yours, I just don't get it. It's just a sticker and a knob. And it's not like you're putting a sticker over an etched or embossed label, it's over another sticker.

 

[Bohdan]

it's not like you're putting a sticker over an etched or embossed label, it's over another sticker.

I think that this actually explains why the MFS has been dropped in NA.

 

[sprior]

Well here's a response from a craftsman in an imperial dominant country is responding - after buying a decent selection of Festool tools and converting my process to metric despite the obvious issues with availability of metric hardware in the US I feel downright betrayed by Festool deciding not to continue to make their tools available in metric.  It makes no sense whatsoever to work in imperial and then switch to metric when using the LR-32 system.  Since making most of my Festool purchases I've also bought a 3D printer and a CNC and found that even in the US those things are almost exclusively metric so at the moment things are largely consistent in my shop.

4. It's interesting that many of the harshest responses have come from people outside of NA. Obviously, everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but it will be interesting to see how the majority of craftsmen in imperial-dominant countries respond. The non-FOG response to this so far as been largely positive.

 

[Christopher Fitch]

My 2 cents (as a US customer) though I'm somewhat certain it won't matter.

I'm surprised and somewhat dismayed at the approach Festool has taken in this matter. Ignoring the meaningless debate over Metric vs Imperial...

- Selling Metric-only scaled tools in the US has not been ideal for some given the differences. I can't say it's been great for me but the system is consistent.
- Selling Imperial-only scaled tools might be great for new US customers but now the system becomes extremely inconsistent for current customers and potentially makes additional outlays questionable. Furthermore, if Festool's plan is to add new customers who otherwise would not have bought in to the system due to Metric vs Imperial, then this is even more short-sighted because those new customers will still be faced with buying metric tools down the road and running in to all the potential issues this approach may trigger. This would add confusion etc. If the plan is to add more Imperial tools in the US over time then it might make more sense but it still seems problematic for all the same reasons. It's just strung out over time.
- Selling some solution allowing for ease of switching is better than the current approach.
- Continuing to sell metric tools along-side the new Imperial tools would be even better. This gives people real choice.
- Selling hybrid tools that combine both scales would have been the best approach . In addition, there is no extra work involved in this because you already have metric and merely adding an imperial scale along side would not cost anymore from a tooling standpoint since you already have committed to changing the tools for the US market.

As a final comment, this just seems to be a bizarre and not well-thought out decision. There were better ways to handle this and still achieve increasing market share.

 

[tjbnwi]

I have yet to have anything I work on know whether I'm cutting, planeing, routing, Domino'ing using metric or imperial measurements.

Never understood the scale/measurement issues.

Tom

 

[thudchkr]

A good fix for this situation would be to still make the conversion to imperial for future tools but make every 110v metric tool from the UK (that is currently available, none of the Naina stuff)
available for order through US dealers. Festool as a company already has UL listing for those products so there's no hang up there.

If the metric items could be ordered from the UK then dealers wouldn't need a stockpile of both imperial and metric available. It would obviously take longer than current transit times to get those items but they'd be available and the customer who is ordering it would do so knowing it would take longer to recieve the item.

If festool backed this and still offered the 3 year warranty on those UK ordered items then everyone would be happy and you could go on introducing your imperial line in an effort to appeal to a broader US customer base. Win/win if you ask me.

I've pretty much converted to metric after getting into Festool.  Converted over my Incra and added Woodpecker rules and metric rules for my combination squares.  I don't want to be forced to purchase Imperial.  Make available metric and 110V to those of us here in NA that prefer them.  And provide the warranty for the premium tool line that we are paying a premium price for. 

Imperial is fine for those who wish them, just don't cut off those of us who've bought in to the system and want them in Metric.

Clint

 

[Kev]

I hardly think offering six tools in imperial will put Festool out of business.

I have direct experience of what can bring a organisation unstuck and you'd be very surprised how insignificant the cause can seem.

... and to be clear, they are taking tools from their core range and converting all future local products to imperial while the rest of their range that is sold as a system is metric.

Look at the situation from a more than a "it doesn't bother me" perspective and ask why it's happening. Realistically there is concern in a hot track saw marketplace and this is a reaction. Companies (like people) make mistakes when they react. Instead of leading and innovating, Festool are following. Sometimes changing course and following while you get your house in order can be appropriate.

Consider a few points ...

1. It's already obvious that several existing NA customers are not happy - that's a negative.
2. There's no certainty that switching a few tools to imperial will have a significant impact on sales - that's a concern.
3. People appraising the imperial track saw may look at the rest of the system and go "hang on - this is supposed to be a system" - that's a risk.
4. Regardless of how insignificant you think a "label and a knob" are, it's obviously more significant than just offering both to the customer - so there's a cost.

Just to bend the subject back round to cars, realistically we'll have self drive way before we could effect an infrastructure change .. so it really doesn't matter if the steering wheel is absent from the left or the right of the car [wink]

 

[McNally Family]

SOLUTION:

Buy the items you want (or may want), now before the inventory for metric is exhausted:

Item #  New Item #  Description
574553  574690      Planer HL 850 E Imp.
574339  574691      Router OF 1010 EQ Imp.
574342  574692      Router OF 1400 EQ Imp.
574354  574689      Router OF 2200 Imp.
561556  574683      Circular Saw TS 55 REQ Imp.
561438  574684      Circular Saw TS 75 EQ Imp.
561730  574685      Circular Saw TSC 55 REB Li
561718  574686      Circular Saw TSC 55REB Li XL
495717  201182      Parallel Side Fence
495718  201183      Parallel Guide Extension

For me, that would be:

561438 Circular Saw TS 75 EQ              $780.00
574342      OF 1400 EQ Router            $560.00
57000023    Parallel Guide Set              $335.00
                                                    ____________                                                 
                                                        $1,675.00

 

[Paul G]

SOLUTION:

Buy the items you want (or may want), now before the inventory for metric is exhausted:

that approach would exhaust my budget long before the invenory.