Festool is (partially) moving to imperial in North America

[leakyroof]

  As an automotive technician who works on Land Rovers, it's the only system of measurement I tend to see since Land Rover usually isn't that good at always giving an Imperial measurement alongside the standard Metric one for specs.
However, as an amusing aside to all of this.  Picture working on the older Land Rovers that used the former GM V-8 that Rover bought from GM back in the '60s.
We had SAE threads in places left from original GM tooling, Metric threads in places on the engine that Land Rover updated at some point, and some parts bolted to the vehicle were possibly Whitworth since neither an Imperial Wrench nor a Metric one fit the nut or bolt.... [eek]
I'm totally fine with Metric, it's any haphazard approach to giving a Standard across a tool line or a vehicle for that matter that makes me laugh a bit since I've lived through Chaos of non-standardization before... [embarassed] [embarassed]

And I had to live with one of those vehicles, a Range Rover built during a change from imperial to metric which when you went to buy spare parts you had to quote the serial number and then you would get parts that may or may not fit because their records weren't that good.

  Ah yes, the 'should' fit era.... [doh] [doh] [bite tongue]

 

[TylerC]

Some of you have asked about what increments and markings will be on the scales. I thought it might be easier to show than to tell. Here images of some of the new scales. Hopefully this will answer some questions.[attachimg=1][attachimg=2][attachimg=3]

 

[jumpinthefire]

Some of you have asked about what increments and markings will be on the scales. I thought it might be easier to show than to tell. Here images of some of the new scales. Hopefully this will answer some questions

  Im curious: I assume the depth ajustement of the "metric" TS55 is "1mm per click" for a lack of better term. What about the imperial version ?

 

[mouppe]

Tyler, one more photo of the micro-adjust on the router would be appreciated.

As I said back on page 1 or 2, the way I use the saw and router makes the scale practically irrelevant, but I think I like the imperial markings better.

 

[TylerC]

Some of you have asked about what increments and markings will be on the scales. I thought it might be easier to show than to tell. Here images of some of the new scales. Hopefully this will answer some questions

  Im curious: I assume the depth ajustement of the "metric" TS55 is "1mm per click" for a lack of better term. What about the imperial version ?

Because nothing else with the tool is changing, one full turn of the adjusting wheel will remain 1 mm (or 0.04 inches).

 

[bobfog]

Some of you have asked about what increments and markings will be on the scales. I thought it might be easier to show than to tell. Here images of some of the new scales. Hopefully this will answer some questions

  Im curious: I assume the depth ajustement of the "metric" TS55 is "1mm per click" for a lack of better term. What about the imperial version ?

Because nothing else with the tool is changing, one full turn of the adjusting wheel will remain 1 mm (or 0.04 inches).

Wow! It gets worse. So rather than re engineering the tools so that one turn equates to a common fraction in imperial like 1/16 1/32 or 1/64 you'll be left with some odd ball 1/25 to wrap your head around! [eek]

 

[TylerC]

Tyler, one more photo of the micro-adjust on the router would be appreciated.

As I said back on page 1 or 2, the way I use the saw and router makes the scale practically irrelevant, but I think I like the imperial markings better.

Does this help? I've also included the OF 2200 this time.View attachment 1View attachment 2[attachimg=2][attachimg=1]

 

[RVHernandez]

Some of you have asked about what increments and markings will be on the scales. I thought it might be easier to show than to tell. Here images of some of the new scales. Hopefully this will answer some questions

  Im curious: I assume the depth ajustement of the "metric" TS55 is "1mm per click" for a lack of better term. What about the imperial version ?

Because nothing else with the tool is changing, one full turn of the adjusting wheel will remain 1 mm (or 0.04 inches).

It really is all stickers and pad printed markings! Did you really think Festool was going to reengineer the threads and parts needed to have 1/32 increments? So even on the routers, there will be two measurement systems! Ridiculous!

 

[Cochese]

Wow.  I can't believe this thread is still going.  I don't know a single person in the US using the metric system in their daily work. 

It's just a unit of measure.  Put a conversion sticker on it if you can't cope.  I have the imperial sticker on my TS55.  I only use it as an initial guess at the thickness I'm cutting, but usually drop the blade to check clearances.  I do the same with other tools.

This is an argument that could go both ways:

"It's just a unit of measure.  Put a conversion sticker on it if you can't cope".

So you have never been to a Pharmacy, Dentist, Doctor, Vet or Hospital?

"I don't know a single person in the US using the metric system in their daily work". 

Ever driven by a farm, and seen a green John Deere tractor out in the field?  Every nut and bolt on that tractor is in Metric.  The tractor can't be serviced without metric tools.

Metric is everywhere, even in this country.  You just need to open your eyes and think.

Sorry.  I work in the aerospace industry.  If we get anything in metric units we convert it to imperial units and go from there.  When I said "I don't know a single person in the US who..." I was limiting that to people who I actually know in engineering.  Come to think of it, my doctor uses imperial units for height and weight.  I don't know what doctors you are visiting.

I do think...I think some of these arguments for "metric or bust" are funny.

Thank you for adding that qualifier, concerning your broad statement about who you know and who you don't know when it comes to working with metric.  My Dad was an engineer and designed and patented many items during his working life.  Just to test your theory about engineers, I went back and looked at each of his patents , and all were drawn and submitted in metric  (These are 35 year old submissions).  I find it hard to believe that no one in the entire aerospace industry works with metric.  Having said that however, I don't know any high level engineers in that industry personally, so I will refrain from making a definitive statement.

You are correct that doctors will list weight and height using imperial, but they do that for your benefit not theirs.  They assume you don't understand metric.  Their explaining to you in imperial is the equivalent to you adding that imperial sticker to your saw, it is simply easier for them.  Trust me when I say, doctors are trained to think in metric first, as are pharmacists, dentists, nurses and vets, or anyone who deals with medicine or medical issues.

I would say that the mechanics who work on foreign cars, or John Deere tractors for that matter, think first in imperial, then metric (for wrench size), as they can simply look at a nut , and gauge what size metric wrench they will need from experience, not conversion.

Many posters on this thread are frustrated because they have made a considerable commitment/investment in learning and using the metric system, and are now shocked that Festool, specifically for the North American market, is switching from metric to imperial for certain tools. 

I don't find that genuine frustration funny at all.

 

At best this is mixed truth, at worst purely anecdotal. I am in healthcare, and see charts all day. Both units are used, and used interchangeably. You might see imperial on one form, metric on another. One I'm looking at right now has both listed concurrently. Height, weight, temperature, etc. Fluid units and wound sizes are increasingly metric-dominant in their documentation, but it isn't anywhere near standard.

It works a bit like I would imagine most US-based hobbyist woodworkers do now - use both. While I have adopted some measures of metric into my shop, it is decidedly a mixed effort, and will continue to be so. I have struggled at times with converting back and forth, and my next project I'm going to attempt purely in metric (because the design I base it off of is of the Swedish persuasion). I can't think of a single instance where having those tools designed in metric caused me trouble working in imperial, and I have the TS55, OF1010, OF1400 among others.

I can see the argument for it, and somewhat agree: if you can change something to increase your userbase with minimal cost, you try it. Let's face facts, those who have bought into the Festool system wholeheartedly aren't going to drop off because some tools (that they likely already own) are going imperial. There will be some huffing and puffing, but I would think the risk of alienating devout metricians (did I make that up?) is far less than the prospect of increasing the footprint. The foreign commentary is the least surprising thing about this. As an American who frequents forums for English football and ARF, among others, the opportunity for commentary about how Americans do things very rarely goes by silent. We love you, and you love us.

All that said, I don't think it is the obstacle that is making the market lag. I very often hear price as the barrier, and rarely the units being used. I can't say what market research Festool has done to say otherwise, but I'm sure they have.

I've come to accept metric, and have even come to know some advantages by being forced into it by Festool. I don't know if I would call this move a mistake, but it sure is interesting. If the fine adjustments are still being done in tenths, there really is a big to do over very little.

 

[semenza]

Continuing the general debate - metric vs. Imperial - in this thread is not helpful imo.

I want to know more about the nuts and bolts of this change.

I agree.  And now with the pics and info from Tyler we have a little more to go on.

Seth

 

[pixelated]

I don't currently own any Festool cutting tools, however my preference, FWIW, would be to have the option to buy the tool with metric or imperial scales or include both systems on the scale. Especially if the adjusters are metric anyway. My choice would be the metric tool.

Like a few others, I am measuring system ambidextrous, I prefer metric because of the simplicity but switch to imperial when needed.

 

[Cochese]

If the depth mechanisms aren't going to change off of 1/10th graduations, it seems like the most intelligent solution would be just to introduce dual measurement guides on those tools. Best of all worlds. Metric users still get metric, and the advantage of decimal graduations, and the imperial users get the comfort of using a system they are accustomed to.

I would assume there is some detail I'm missing about why this can't be done.

 

[Paul G]

[member=57769]TylerC[/member] Sorry if I missed it, but is there any word yet regarding the details of changing a metric TS75 to imperial?

 

[mwildt]

So we cannot get metric anymore or are there now two part numbers ?

 

[Paul G]

So we cannot get metric anymore or are there now two part numbers ?

Per the current info, the metric counterparts of the imperial tools will not continue in the US.

 

[robertgreen94]

Now that you are going imperial, should the tracksaws be called the TS 2 & 11/64ths and TS 2 61/64ths for the TS55 and TS75 respectively

 

[Michael Kellough]

Since Tyler supplied photos we now know Festool has dumbed down the tools for the American market. Instead of mm increments (~1/25") new tool buyers will only get 1/16" increments.

Thinking about it more, adjusting the router depth would actually fit well with the way I work, thinking in inches and converting to mm for fine adjustments. The router's gross depth adjustment will be set in inches (I would rather it was 32nds) and fine adjustments will still be in mm and sub-mm increments.

But what about the other scales on the router? The black plastic T thing that has mm increments. It's actually useful with mm hash marks but if those marks are nearly twice as far apart, not good.

I still want to know if the saw scale is the only thing that has changed (just a coarser sticker?) or has the rack also been re-toothed to 1/16" increments?

 

[mwildt]

While it is nice to have Festool be market sensitive some of us are already working in metric and now we're out of luck. Not a NICE move.

Please don't mess with existing customer base just to gain influence on another, totally back stabbing us here.

Since it all is a simple scale change it should be possible to accommodate both sides better than this approach. Like just supply them in the box with instructions or support a special order scheme.

Guess one will have to reconsider if this system is worth investing in going forward.

 

[GarryMartin]

2. Providing two versions of the same tools simply doesn't make sense. It would be far too expensive and complicated to simultaneously provide both tools. Other power tool manufacturers don't offer both metric and imperial versions of their tools either. It's easy to say, "Just make both." It's much harder to actually pull off in a financially feasible way.

Will this change in any slow the introduction of new tools to NA even further given the additional engineering that it seems is required to change from a default metric design to an Imperial one?

I had, it appears mistakenly given recent posts, assumed there was some engineering change behind this too to change the functions that adjust the tool to Imperial equivalents; so the "clicks" of the adjustment on TS 55R would be in Imperial increments, and a full turn of the fine adjustment knob on a OF 1400 would be an Imperial equivalent for example.

So are we really saying this is just a change of measurement sticker? And if it is, why can't a metric equivalent sticker be put in the box in the same way that I understand Imperial stickers have been provided for the TS 55R in the past? Surely that would then provide the best of both worlds?

I'm a bit lost if I'm honest.  [huh]

 

[rizzoa13]

Something doesn't seem right here... Your going to change the sticker (marking plate on some tools) only but phase out the metric equivalents completely in the U.S.? That's just so illogical.