Festool is (partially) moving to imperial in North America

[member=19439]Paul G[/member]    [member=297]Michael Kellough[/member]

    One of Tyler's pictures shows the TS75 with imperial scale.

    Tyler replied that nothing but the scale markings will change ...... one click will still be one mm.

Seth
 
If we could order the metric scale, instead of adding in the box, then the customers would have the choice of which to use.  Obviously you are making the metric scales, so having the ability to order would be good.

Come to think of it, if i have a metric tool and my scale is damaged, would it be replaced with a metric or imperial scale on the relevant tools?

Thanks, Robert
 
SRSemenza said:
[member=19439]Paul G[/member]    [member=297]Michael Kellough[/member]

    One of Tyler's pictures shows the TS75 with imperial scale.

    Tyler replied that nothing but the scale markings will change ...... one click will still be one mm.

Seth

Yup, I saw the picture. My question is can I change my metric version to imperial or do I have to buy a new saw.
 
GarryMartin said:
TylerC said:
2. Providing two versions of the same tools simply doesn't make sense. It would be far too expensive and complicated to simultaneously provide both tools. Other power tool manufacturers don't offer both metric and imperial versions of their tools either. It's easy to say, "Just make both." It's much harder to actually pull off in a financially feasible way.

GarryMartin said:
Will this change in any slow the introduction of new tools to NA even further given the additional engineering that it seems is required to change from a default metric design to an Imperial one?

I had, it appears mistakenly given recent posts, assumed there was some engineering change behind this too to change the functions that adjust the tool to Imperial equivalents; so the "clicks" of the adjustment on TS 55R would be in Imperial increments, and a full turn of the fine adjustment knob on a OF 1400 would be an Imperial equivalent for example.

So are we really saying this is just a change of measurement sticker? And if it is, why can't a metric equivalent sticker be put in the box in the same way that I understand Imperial stickers have been provided for the TS 55R in the past? Surely that would then provide the best of both worlds?

I'm a bit lost if I'm honest.  [huh]

Either we're missing something that hasn't been properly explained or the lunatics have well and truly taken over the asylum! Because a) having metrics detent logged against an imperial scale is a half assed job to put it mildly and b) if this is just a matter of a different scale then Festool are making a decision beyond all conventional measures of stupidity not to simply offer the NA market both imperial and metric.

 
I am so terribly disappointed by the announcement about the switch to Imperial. What will I do in my all-metric shop?  The news that the router (and TS?) will actually have a MIX of Imperial (for gross settings) and metric (for fine adjustments) only makes it worse, in my eyes.  I can't imagine setting my tool to cut something like 3/4", and then make my fine adjustments in millimeters.  That makes my head spin.  Metric is simple, accurate, and straightforward.

Added to this mix, is that only some tools are switching to Imperial while the others remain metric.  Ugh.  They should all stay metric.

Metric is much more accurate and much easier.  Frankly I also don't understand Tyler's comments that it is not economically feasible to offer tools in both Metric and Imperial.  Because if that were true, Festool would NOT be switching its North American tools to Imperial, while the rest of the world remains metric (and 220 volt).
 
The saw scale will change to 1/16" but the rack that actually fixes the depth will remain metric?!

This is simply wrong on several levels.

This is the IKEA-ization of Festool. 30 or so years ago IKEA brought relatively sophisticated European design (though cheaply fabricated) to the American market but it has steadily dumbed the design vocabulary down to vague cheap versions of "traditional" American stuff. Pandering to the lowest common denominator, approximately.
 
Michael Kellough said:
The saw scale will change to 1/16" but the rack that actually fixes the depth will remain metric?!

This is simply wrong on several levels.

This is the IKEA-ization of Festool. 30 or so years ago IKEA brought relatively sophisticated European design (though cheaply fabricated) to the American market but it has steadily dumbed the design vocabulary down to vague cheap versions of "traditional" American stuff. Pandering to the lowest common denominator, approximately.

I'm unsure who they are pandering to. It's a joke. I have to believe this is originating from the sales department because it makes no sense from an engineering perspective.

If they had gone fully imperial and changed the detents, clicks etc. as well as just the sticker, then maybe it would make sense. But to change the sticker whilst leaving the underlying machine metric is utter nonsense. It's a hodge-podge of both systems which leaves both sets of users disadvantaged. Now the clicks won't even line up with the sticker marks!

Is it April 1st already?

 
Maybe I read it wrong a few pages but, but I thought someone said changes were more than just stickers, but from what has been shown, it looks like just stickers.

i.e. each knob turn is exactly what it was before.

If so, shouldn't we be able to put the sticker we want to use ourselves?
 
Here's something, perhaps a major us distributer has adhered to carrying x number of units in their stores, nationality, giving festool guaranteed sales #'s for the year, on the condition that the products are sold with imperial markings. Festool will branch further away from unified product development,to developing specifically for European and American markets separately in an effort to minimize losses.
Boom! Next is that PRC label on your tools
 
So.

Let's summarize the actual changes.

1.  Festool is essentially doing nothing more than changing the marking sticker on the routers and a plastic marking part on the saws and a marking sticker on the parallel guides. 

2.  Festool is not changing the lead screws on the routers, so the micrometer adjustments are still being made in tenths of a mm.

3. The only real change to the parallel guides is that the scale is being changed.

4.  Festool will not offer metric versions of any of the tools in North America despite the only real changes amounting to stickers. 

5.  Depth changes on tools will present relatively little impact on their use but the parallel guides is the one change that has a fundamental change in the usage of the tool since it's entire purpose is to be a linear measurement stick.

6.  Tools will continue to be sold at super premium prices.

Predicted Impacts.

1.  Having imperial depth markings may result in a slight increase in tools but it will be limited by the fact that super premium pricing is the first thing controlling sales.  Many customers set depths in ways that have little to do with the indicated scale anyway.  The only sales that will result in having imperial depth scales will be to customers who have lots of money, are willing to pluck it down, and have a severe aversion to metric depth scales.  Meanwhile, existing customers who have converted to metric are offended because Festool despite charging super premium prices is too cheap or too stubborn to at least provide a metric retrofit sticker.

2.  Parallel guide substitutes are available in both metric and imperial markings by numerous other companies at lower prices.  Festool will only sell imperial marked parallel guides.  Markings on parallel guides are much more fundamental than depth scales on other tools.  Sales of parallel guides would likely be maximized by offering both versions or at least a conversion sticker.

3.  A good portion of Festool's market is cabinetmaker's both professional and hobbiest.  32 mm systems mean that a good portion of are already using metric.  I don't see Festool picking up a lot of framing carpenters for track saws regardless of depth measurement, dust extractors have nothing to do with this, sanders have nothing to do with this, drills have nothing to do with this.

It makes no sense not to offer metric parallel guides especially considering that people who buy LR32 rails probably buy parallel guides and want them to be metric since LR32 is part of the 32 mm system.  Don't forget the Domino system in this

4.  Festool could probably sell more 1010 and 1400 routers and LR32 sets by making holed tracks standard with track saw packages and MFT tables.  I bet the impact would be greater than
changing the scales to imperial while refusing to provide metric scales.

5.  It was cabinet making, that got me into festools parallel guides and metric.  Since then, I have bought Fastcap metric tape measures, Starrett metric rules for my combination squares and woodpeckers squares in metric.  Festool is missing out on system sales that aftermarketer's are nailing.  Clamps, parallel guides, dogs, measurement, squares, MFT alignment, etc.

Final analysis.

Offering imperial only depth scales and parallel guides will not increase sales of expensive tools that are sold to finish carpenters, furniture makers, cabinetmakers, and premium hobby buyers.  It will not increase sales of expensive tools to framing carpenters or D.I.Y.'s who buy bargain brands at home centers. 

Festool can increase sales by improving the MFT table which suffers from a fence that is too thick for 1/2" (12mm) ply products, a fence that causes a loss of too much cross cut capacity, does not retain fence to rail perpendicularity after height changes due to lack of a Slop Stop like improvement and other needed improvements.  (I realign to a few thoudandths using a dial indicator and Woodpecker's square to obtain sliding table saw quality work), and a clumsy parallel guide system that could easily be modified with cursors for more precise adjustment.

Festools are purchased by me because they allow me to do work to the same degree of precision as a shop equipped with sliding table saws and 32 mm spindle line boring machines.  For a few thousand dollars, I can produce work that a shop containing ten's of thousands of dollars of equipment produces (at a much slower rate of course.).

That's why I bought your tools.  Give me more of that.  Better dust extraction.  Give me more of that.  Look at what happened with the dust extractor sales.  Study that.  Offer a better discount for package deals than a measly 10%.  Drop your pricing a little bit on both the hardware and the replacement items and you will lose less sales to Bosch, Makita, Fein, and now even Dewalt who are starting to get on board with dust extraction.  Offer LR32 ready tracks standard with track saw sales to distinguish yourself from Makita and Dewalt.

Listen to the people who buy your tools now and buy aftermarket tools that are necessary due to your failure to capitalize on the strength and value of your products.

 
Paul G said:
SRSemenza said:
[member=19439]Paul G[/member]    [member=297]Michael Kellough[/member]

    One of Tyler's pictures shows the TS75 with imperial scale.

    Tyler replied that nothing but the scale markings will change ...... one click will still be one mm.

Seth

Yup, I saw the picture. My question is can I change my metric version to imperial or do I have to buy a new saw.

Aaah, sorry , missed the wording.
 
Paul G said:
[member=57769]TylerC[/member] Sorry if I missed it, but is there any word yet regarding the details of changing a metric TS75 to imperial?

You haven't missed it. In the next few weeks, we'll begin allowing people to send in their metric tools to have them converted to imperial (for a fee). The whole thing is still getting finalized.
 
TylerC said:
Paul G said:
[member=57769]TylerC[/member] Sorry if I missed it, but is there any word yet regarding the details of changing a metric TS75 to imperial?

You haven't missed it. In the next few weeks, we'll begin allowing people to send in their metric tools to have them converted to imperial (for a fee). The whole thing is still getting finalized.

There has to be some engineering in this too then surely? You wouldn't send your saw in to get a sticker applied...

No disrespect [member=57769]TylerC[/member], but this is making no sense and I wonder whether there's been a communication error with regard to the actual changes that are being made. The only thing that would make sense at this point is if components were being changed such that the major adjustments on the tool became Imperial increments.

Can you please check your information?
 
Oh your forcing imperial on the U.S. customers AND you'll even switch it over for a fee? Im not trying to start trouble but holy crap I feel like I'm being trolled right now.
 
GarryMartin said:
TylerC said:
Paul G said:
[member=57769]TylerC[/member] Sorry if I missed it, but is there any word yet regarding the details of changing a metric TS75 to imperial?

You haven't missed it. In the next few weeks, we'll begin allowing people to send in their metric tools to have them converted to imperial (for a fee). The whole thing is still getting finalized.

There has to be some engineering in this too then surely? You wouldn't send your saw in to get a sticker applied...

No disrespect [member=57769]TylerC[/member], but this is making no sense and I wonder whether there's been a communication error with regard to the actual changes that are being made. The only thing that would make sense at this point is if components were being changed such that the major adjustments on the tool became Imperial increments.

Can you please check your information?

For some tools (like the track saws) we can just send a sticker. For others (like the parallel guide extensions) it's a big more complicated than just throwing a sticker on top.
 
Honestly I keep checking this thread hoping to see all tools will be available in metric going forward.  In other words imperial is an option in NA.  I want a TS75 but timing is not right.  I don't want 55 in metric and 75 in imperial. 

Sort of speechless at this point. 
 
rizzoa13 said:
Oh your forcing imperial on the U.S. customers AND you'll even switch it over for a fee? Im not trying to start trouble but holy crap I feel like I'm being trolled right now.

No one is forcing you to retrofit their metric tools.

People have been asking us for years to switch to imperial. For all of the people who bought a metric tool and would prefer it in imperial, we're giving them the opportunity to get it in imperial without having to buy a new tool.
 
TylerC said:
rizzoa13 said:
Oh your forcing imperial on the U.S. customers AND you'll even switch it over for a fee? Im not trying to start trouble but holy crap I feel like I'm being trolled right now.

No one is forcing you to retrofit their metric tools.

People have been asking us for years to switch to imperial. For all of the people who bought a metric tool and would prefer it in imperial, we're giving them the opportunity to get it in imperial without having to buy a new tool.

You aren't listening.  Your existing customers are mad because your new tools will only come in imperial.  They have invested in existing tools, they have converted to metric for their own reasons, and they want future access to metric tools.  Your tools are very expensive and yet you won't even consider supplying an inexpensive metric sticker with your future tools.

Do you really think millions of harbor freight buyers are going to buy your tools because of imperial depth settings?

I guarantee you that aftermarketers who currently make imperial scales for your tools will now start making metric scales for your tools.

Kinda silly.
 
I think perhaps at this point it might be wise to temporarily close the thread until more details come about. It just invites an opportunity to get mad at incomplete information.
 
Cochese said:
I think perhaps at this point it might be wise to temporarily close the thread until more details come about. It just invites an opportunity to get mad at incomplete information.

It may be worthwhile for them to know. It is like a free survey.

On the other hand maybe they have done a survey.
 
Back
Top