Festool is (partially) moving to imperial in North America

[Wooden Skye]

Closing this thread I don't think is necessary, but if questions come up, I think we should give [member=57769]TylerC[/member] the opportunity and time to get the answers, not speculate.  I just want to say that Tyler is getting slammed for doing his job and presenting announcements to this group.  Tyler in my opinion you are doing a good job, keep it up.

So the general rule of thumb was to add 5 or 6 mm to compensate for the rail, what is the new recommendation?  5 mm is equal to .19 inches.

 

[Cochese]

Closing this thread I don't think is necessary, but if questions come up, I think we should give [member=57769]TylerC[/member] the opportunity and time to get the answers, not speculate.  I just want to say that Tyler is getting slammed for doing his job and presenting announcements to this group.  Tyler in my opinion you are doing a good job, keep it up.

So the general rule of thumb was to add 5 or 6 mm to compensate for the rail, what is the new recommendation?  5 mm is equal to .19 inches.

It was more about that. Bit unfair for Tyler to be the messenger that others shoot.

 

[RVHernandez]

You aren't listening.  Your existing customers are mad because your new tools will only come in imperial.  They have invested in existing tools, they have converted to metric for their own reasons, and they want future access to metric tools.  Your tools are very expensive and yet you won't even consider supplying an inexpensive metric sticker with your future tools.

Do you really think millions of harbor freight buyers are going to buy your tools because of imperial depth settings?

I guarantee you that aftermarketers who currently make imperial scales for your tools will now start making metric scales for your tools.

Kinda silly.

Exactly!

 

[RVHernandez]

Closing this thread I don't think is necessary, but if questions come up, I think we should give [member=57769]TylerC[/member] the opportunity and time to get the answers, not speculate.  I just want to say that Tyler is getting slammed for doing his job and presenting announcements to this group.  Tyler in my opinion you are doing a good job, keep it up.

So the general rule of thumb was to add 5 or 6 mm to compensate for the rail, what is the new recommendation?  5 mm is equal to .19 inches.

I don't think anyone here has attacked [member=57769]TylerC[/member] - he is just doing his job here.

 

[Wooden Skye]

Closing this thread I don't think is necessary, but if questions come up, I think we should give [member=57769]TylerC[/member] the opportunity and time to get the answers, not speculate.  I just want to say that Tyler is getting slammed for doing his job and presenting announcements to this group.  Tyler in my opinion you are doing a good job, keep it up.

So the general rule of thumb was to add 5 or 6 mm to compensate for the rail, what is the new recommendation?  5 mm is equal to .19 inches.

I don't think anyone here has attacked [member=57769]TylerC[/member] - he is just doing his job here.

I didn't say he is being attacked, but he is taking the brunt of the backlash.  I know his job is to be the voice of Festool on here, but he didn't make this decision, he is just putting it out there.

 

[Hurricane Whisperer]

Closing this thread I don't think is necessary, but if questions come up, I think we should give [member=57769]TylerC[/member] the opportunity and time to get the answers, not speculate.  I just want to say that Tyler is getting slammed for doing his job and presenting announcements to this group.  Tyler in my opinion you are doing a good job, keep it up.

So the general rule of thumb was to add 5 or 6 mm to compensate for the rail, what is the new recommendation?  5 mm is equal to .19 inches.

Sorry, but I totally disagree.

1.  Festool's rep tells us that the change to imperial only is being made and that only imperial will be offered.
2.  FOG'ers complain about not being allowed to have a choice.
3.  Festool's rep says choice can't be allowed because there are too many changes to the tools and it would be too expensive to offer a choice.
4.  Then festool's rep shows us pictures and makes statements that tell us only the scales on the routers are being changed and not lead screws on the micrometer adjustments.
5.  Festoolers are now frustrated by a bad choice and possible misinformation from Festool's rep.

At least  two FOG'ers blame other FOG'ers for Festool's rep botching the information roll out and saying he is doing his job when really we are confused due to his statements.  If Festool's rep didn't know what Festool is actually doing, then perhaps he should have waited until he understood what Festool was doing.  I don't see why we should be blamed for reacting to information then having the information changed on us and then rereacting.

 

[Wooden Skye]

Closing this thread I don't think is necessary, but if questions come up, I think we should give [member=57769]TylerC[/member] the opportunity and time to get the answers, not speculate.  I just want to say that Tyler is getting slammed for doing his job and presenting announcements to this group.  Tyler in my opinion you are doing a good job, keep it up.

So the general rule of thumb was to add 5 or 6 mm to compensate for the rail, what is the new recommendation?  5 mm is equal to .19 inches.

Sorry, but I totally disagree.

1.  Festool's rep tells us that the change to imperial only is being made and that only imperial will be offered.  Festool's right as a company.
2.  FOG'ers complain about not being allowed to have a choice. Do you get a choice for everything you buy?
3.  Festool's rep says choice can't be allowed because there are too many changes to the tools and it would be too expensive to offer a choice.  Again Festool's choice, but I agree with you that alternatives could be presented to customers at very minimal cost.
4.  Then festool's rep shows us pictures and makes statements that tell us only the scales on the routers are being changed and not lead screws on the micrometer adjustments. There were also pictures of the track saw, but if no changes to micro adjust that should be done would be an issue.
5.  Festoolers are now frustrated by a bad choice and possible misinformation from Festool's rep.  I don't like the change either, but Tyler should be given the time to get the right answers, even if that takes time so no misinformation is given.

At least  two FOG'ers blame other FOG'ers for Festool's rep botching the information roll out and saying he is doing his job when really we are confused due to his statements.  If Festool's rep didn't know what Festool is actually doing, then perhaps he should have waited until he understood what Festool was doing.  I don't see why we should be blamed for reacting to information then having the information changed on us and then rereacting.  I agree this could have and should have been handled better, for example, after it was announced, a senior member of management or engineering should have chimed in to provide the right answers.  I would guess management went to Tyler and said please announce on the FOG not grasping that the forum would react they way it did.

 

[promark747]

The whole thing seems very un-Festool.  For all the issues over the years with products not getting UL approval (or Festool not wanting to go through the process), it seems ironic to introduce an "imperial" saw where the internal gradations are actually in metric.  Not that it really matters for safety, but I can't help but wonder whether that could get a manufacturer in trouble. Some schmuck will claim he injured himself because the depth setting said 1" but in reality the saw was set to 27 mm.

 

[TylerC]

Oh your forcing imperial on the U.S. customers AND you'll even switch it over for a fee? Im not trying to start trouble but holy crap I feel like I'm being trolled right now.

No one is forcing you to retrofit their metric tools.

People have been asking us for years to switch to imperial. For all of the people who bought a metric tool and would prefer it in imperial, we're giving them the opportunity to get it in imperial without having to buy a new tool.

You aren't listening.  Your existing customers are mad because your new tools will only come in imperial.  They have invested in existing tools, they have converted to metric for their own reasons, and they want future access to metric tools.  Your tools are very expensive and yet you won't even consider supplying an inexpensive metric sticker with your future tools.

Do you really think millions of harbor freight buyers are going to buy your tools because of imperial depth settings?

I guarantee you that aftermarketers who currently make imperial scales for your tools will now start making metric scales for your tools.

Kinda silly.

His post was complaining about offering to convert existing metric tools. Not liking that we're switching to imperial is fine. (And, yes, I am listening.) Not liking that we're including an additional optional service is something else.

 

[TylerC]

I appreciate the personal encouragement from a few of you, but I'm fine. Yeah, the last two days haven't been fun, but my job isn't to have fun. This is about you all. It isn't about me.

If there are things that I haven't answered yet or haven't been clear enough about, I apologize. The answers about retrofitting tools are vague because the process hasn't been completely finalized yet.

To be honest, I knew that there would be some negative reactions on the FOG. You all are our most passionate and long-time customers, and you're more likely to be committed to metric than other craftsmen. I completely understand that some of you aren't happy about this, and you're entitled to that.

I don't mind criticism. It makes Festool better. I'd just ask that you give us the benefit of the doubt. That doesn't mean that you have to like this decision, but please appreciate that we're trying -- sometimes succeeding, sometimes failing, sometimes TBD -- to do what's in the best interest of a wide variety of people (current customers, new/potential customers, dealers, and ourselves to name a few). It's a tricky balancing act, and I'm sure that you can relate to that in your own work or personal lives. This decision was made because SO many people over the years have asked us to do so. We can't please everyone.

How about this for a plan:
If you have a specific question, please ask by the end of tomorrow (Friday). If it's a question that you've already asked that hasn't been (thoroughly) answered, feel free to ask again. I'll be traveling all next week with several other people involved in this decision and transition. During the trip, I'll try to get as many answers and clarifications that I can.

We'll be traveling to Germany, so please be patient if I'm slow to post answers. Due to the combination of jetlag and a jam-packed itinerary, I can almost guarantee that I won't be on the FOG much.

We don't necessarily need to shut this thread down after tomorrow night, but let's try to generally wrap it up then -- at least until I return with your answers. Sound fair?

 

[rljatl]

If only the sticker is changing, it should be easy and cost effective to offer both imperial and metric.  That is something a premium tool manufacturer would do.
Each dealer could order whatever he felt that he could sell.

 

[Hurricane Whisperer]

Oh your forcing imperial on the U.S. customers AND you'll even switch it over for a fee? Im not trying to start trouble but holy crap I feel like I'm being trolled right now.

No one is forcing you to retrofit their metric tools.

People have been asking us for years to switch to imperial. For all of the people who bought a metric tool and would prefer it in imperial, we're giving them the opportunity to get it in imperial without having to buy a new tool.

You aren't listening.  Your existing customers are mad because your new tools will only come in imperial.  They have invested in existing tools, they have converted to metric for their own reasons, and they want future access to metric tools.  Your tools are very expensive and yet you won't even consider supplying an inexpensive metric sticker with your future tools.

Do you really think millions of harbor freight buyers are going to buy your tools because of imperial depth settings?

I guarantee you that aftermarketers who currently make imperial scales for your tools will now start making metric scales for your tools.

Kinda silly.

His post was complaining about offering to convert existing metric tools. Not liking that we're switching to imperial is fine. (And, yes, I am listening.) Not liking that we're including an additional optional service is something else.

Again, you are not listening.  His post said. "Oh your forcing imperial on the U.S. customers AND you'll even switch it over for a fee? Im not trying to start trouble but holy crap I feel like I'm being trolled right now."

He can clarify for himself, but I think it highly more likely that his statement, "forcing imperial on U.S. customers" is a reference to the fact that you stated the tools in question would be offered in Imperial ONLY despite the fact it's a sticker change.

I think it makes a lot more sense that he is upset that he will not be able to buy metric scaled metric tools in the future then your interpretation that he thinks he would be forced to send in tools for conversion.  He is most likely pointing out the absurdity that Festool offers a service to rescale metric scaled metric tools already purchased to imperial scaled metric tools for a fee but won't include a simple sticker to keep a metric tool metric.  I also believe he is flabergasted (trolled in his words) that Festool is so tone deaf that existing customers who purchased expensive tools as part of a system really never wanted metric in the first place when they bought their tools and they really don't want metric now.

Even if that's not what he thinks, it is what several other's have stated and it's exactly what I think.  We are expressing our opinion.  You may ignore that opinion.  But I will make sure that you correctly understand what that opinion is rather than assuming we have some other opinion to be ignored.

 

[sandalot]

[member=57769]TylerC[/member]  , The Kapex UG extensions are currently sold with metric scale . Will we see a change over to imperial ?

 

[rizzoa13]

Im not going to quote it because it's s long post but hurricane whisperer just nailed exactly what I meant by my post to a letter. It's just wrong that you are forcing a change to metric on us and them have the balls to offer to switch tools over to imperial for a fee.

 

[semenza]

Lets make sure we are focusing on the topic and not getting into arguments with each other.

Seth

 

[Ajax]

Since Tyler supplied photos we now know Festool has dumbed down the tools for the American market. Instead of mm increments (~1/25") new tool buyers will only get 1/16" increments.

So changing a sticker from metric to imperial is "dumbing down"?

What if the sticker had both units?

I have tools with both.  Are they dumbed down for Americans?

 

[Ajax]

Some of you have asked about what increments and markings will be on the scales. I thought it might be easier to show than to tell. Here images of some of the new scales. Hopefully this will answer some questions.[attachimg=1][attachimg=2][attachimg=3]

Very nice.  I might now consider a Festool router.  Adding the imperial scale makes it even more attractive for me.

 

[Michael Kellough]

Ajax, the saw depth adjusts in mm and will continue to do so after the metric scale is replaced with 1/16" markings. That is just wrong.

The solution you suggest does sound good to me. I have added marks for standard material thicknesses to my saws so if Festool changed the saws to such a dual scale I wouldn't complain.

Some of the tools don't have enough room to legibly host dual scales. For those Festool should supply both scales and instructions on how to switch.

The scale on the router is so relative (depends on the bit and how it is inserted into the collet) so the scale could be attached in such a way that it is easy to remove and replace.

 

[Paul G]

Yes, dual scales would be ideal where possible, kinda like my trucks spedo.

 

[Mismarked]

  I for some reason am more comfortable with depth adjustments in Imperial, but after having used Festool products for a while, I now prefer length measurements in millimeters for accuracy even though I still think better (without a calculator) in inches.
I might never have purchased my first Festool (TS 55) if the dealer hadn’t told me I could easily change it to Imperial with a sticker, as I had never used metric before.  Before the first use, I put the Imperial sticker on it.
I later bought the parallel guides, the LR32, and a few sets of the AZ drawers, which have plans in metric and precise holes specified in millimeters.  My first projects were homemade Sysports and some wall cabinets, and as a result I started using metric when drawing stuff in Sketchup, so all of these components worked better as a system.
Even then, I never removed the Imperial sticker from the TS 55.  It is easier for me to do a rough depth estimate with the Imperial sticker and fine tune it by sight.
My guess is that if a beginning woodworker in the US sees a Festool TS for the first time and it has Imperial measurements, he/she would be more inclined to give it a close look.  If it can be changed to metric in less than a minute with a sticker, that seems like a fairly minor issue.
I have the OF 1400 and would probably prefer depth adjustments in Imperial, but metric has worked just fine to date.
As for the planer, I probably wouldn’t get the HL 850, but my Dewalt planer has Imperial thickness measurements.  Would not want to change that to metric even if I could.
On the parallel guides, though, it does seem surprising not to continue to offer metric as an option, or at least let the NA dealers decide whether to stock both.  If as a new woodworker I decided to make my first project a couple of shop cabinets fitted with AZ drawers, it would be extremely confusing to download Festool’s plans with cabinet dimensions in metric, drawer slides with holes spaced in millimeters and holes spaced in 32 millimeters, and then pull out the parallel guides with Imperial measurements.  I guess you could purchase a metric set from overseas and not really care about a warranty on that particular product, but what a pain, and maybe no 30 day return policy.