Festool Kapex handle ergonomics

[Lbob131]

Many a time  I've  walked  into a  tool shop  and seen a Kapex  and  could never  figure  out  how  to  pull the head  down.  Until now.
And like the guy  in the  video, didn't  find the  wrist  position  the most  ergonomically  friendly.

Whilst  it is  similar  to my Makita  LS1013  in that the grip handle is vertical. It differs  on the set angle.
The Kapex  handle  is set much higher  throwing the wrist  forward to gain  grip. Then the button and  trigger have  to be pressed  simultaneously. I think this  guy  makes a good point.
With my Makita  only a lever  is pressed  to lower  the head which  is located  close  to the index finger.
(right hand usage)

I know  it  comes  down  to what you  are used  to also. Personally  I prefer  the vertical handle.
I know people  who have  LS1013's  for  many years  and  find  using a horizontal  handle  weird.

 

[butzla]

Is there a question in there somewhere?

 

[Lbob131]

I guess  I'm just  posting my observations.
I think its  6.30am  where  you are  right now.
Early start to the day. LoL.

 

[ChuckM]

I like the way the video is titled as it recognizes its limitation (first time) and hence its value.

Among everything he covered, I agree on one thing: the mechanism for setting the mitre angles should be improved. I would not want anything else on my Kapex (including the handle/switch) changed. Prior to owning the Kapex, like him, I was a Dewalt mitre saw user.

Correction: I'd like to see one change - the saw should come with two hold-down clamps, not one. It is the best clamping system for a mitre saw, one that you will actually use day in and day out. The screw-type clamps are impractical.

 

[semenza]

I am not sure why he is pressing both the safety button and the trigger to lower the head without turning it on?  Just press the trigger without the safety button.

Also the issue of needing to do that at is removed if the laser is working.

Seth

 

[Mario Turcot]

It all come to adaptability. I have a Milwaukee with horizontal handle and the Kapex vertical handle. I have no problem alternating to both position.

About the video. That guy is with no doubdt a skilled carpenter. But man he shouldn't make a review of a tool you know nothing.  [huh]

 

[Lincoln]

Would you be questioning his review if it was a 100% positive one, or would he still 'know nothing'?

 

[elfick]

I think it's more a matter of if he is going to review something, do the review on a fully functional model. My Kapex rotates smoothly, locks perfectly, and the lasers are spot on. That's most of his negatives right there.

I will agree that I prefer a horizontal handle also, and that gave me pause when considering a Kapex purchase, but I've since gotten used to it and if he learned how to use the lock out properly... it would probably cover a good chunk of that negative also.

 

[pettyconstruction]

As he states in the video, it is not a tool review but a quick observation .
Having been asked may times about the saw, he finally gets to use one and let’s us know his first impression .
I did like his take on cost as it comes up a lot.
For what it’s worth ,I find the horizontal handle on a Dewalt to be strange but not a deal breaker . My work partner has a Dewalt and I have a Hitachi .
Kapex to come.
Cheers , Charlie

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

 

[AlexThePalex]

So he's used to his DeWalts and Milwaukee's having a horizontal handle, probably been using them for 20 years, and the first time he meets something else, he don't like it? Hardly a surprise, innit?

 

[tewic]

I think he's spot on in his feedback.

My first mitre saw was a Makita LS1019L, which I had for a couple of weeks (got stolen), then I decided to get a Kapex KS 60. Although the Kapex feels like better saw in many areas, one of the significant downgrades, is the vertical handle, which just feels akward. After 5 months of DIY use, it stil feels off. The horizontal handle on the Makita felt natural from the get go.

 

[Kanuka]

I'm not a big fan of the saw but I really don't care what a guy with a terrible beard and an iPhone has to say about anything on his lunch break.

 

[TXFIVEO]

I have both the Dewalt DWS780 and the new Kapex REB...after using the Kapex for a couple months now I prefer the Kapex.  Why?  While my Dewalt is fine tuned with square table and fence, it just doesn’t feel as good as the Kapex. I actually like the Kapex handle and like the laser system over the light/shadow system of the Dewalt.  And for me, the reduced weight on the Kapex makes it a game changer.  I do a lot of onsite cutting for accent walls and the ability to carry the Kapex upstairs and do all my cutting in the same room is a game changer.  And the dust extraction is leaps and bounds better on the Kapex. 

Dewalt has been delegated to barn wood cutting where nail hitting is a possibility. 

 

[Harry1561]

I always used Makita with the vertical handle, so using the Kapex  was never an issue. Having now used the Kapex for about 4 years, I feel it would be a step backwards using anything else!! Like CHUCK M , the hold down on the Kapex is the only hold down i've ever used.

 

[ChuckM]

For precision and delicate cuts, the arm should be in line with the saw blade, avoiding putting side pressure on the handle/motor part. This is also true when doing the bevel cuts. While you can do that with a horizontal handle, it's a lot more natural and easy with the Kapex's vertical handle design. In fact, regular uses will make a Kapex user line up his or her arm in such a manner without second thought.

Of course, if the saw is used mainly for carpentry and rough dimensioning types of cuts, the difference won't be noticed. 

 

[jcrowe1950]

For precision and delicate cuts, the arm should be in line with the saw blade, avoiding putting side pressure on the handle/motor part. This is also true when doing the bevel cuts. While you can do that with a horizontal handle, it's a lot more natural and easy with the Kapex's vertical handle design. In fact, regular uses will make a Kapex user line up his or her arm in such a manner without second thought.

Of course, if the saw is used mainly for carpentry and rough dimensioning types of cuts, the difference won't be noticed.

ChuckM,

    I think you are onto something here. Envision cutting a dovetail with a handsaw.....that's the way you can sort of optimize the human to machine interface from an ergonomic PoV. Having your arm inline with many cutting or drilling tools is optimal for accuracy (even with track saws). Of course, that's just my opinion. I don't own a Kapex but use one at work. I have the Bosch CM10GD at home and it is OK for my purposes, but it is definitely not as precise or accurate as the Kapex.

 

[yetihunter]

There is no argument.  Inline performs better on paper and in the real world.  Ergonomics are a personal preference.

 

[FestitaMakool]

There is no argument.  Inline performs better on paper and in the real world.  Ergonomics are a personal preference.

Agreed, inline is supported as far as human dynamics naturally operate. The Kapex handle certainly left me wanting. And this was after operating a DeWalt with same type of vertical handle for more than 15 years, only to be disrupted by a Bosch a short while, this also with a vertical handle. For me, i miss some rubberised area in the handle. I’m thinking of maybe spraying the handle with rubber paint. Because the handle is so steep, my hand glides unwillingly down when pulling the head down. This has not been the case with DeWalt and Bosch in my experience.

Though the ergonomics has grown on me. As is the case with “C” drills from Festool. Inline, yes but it takes some adopting after using T grip drills for years. Again, flipping a T drill upside down, resting the back of the drill in the palm of your hand does almost the same. (Maybe requiring long fingers.. but i have)

 

[yetihunter]

It’s all coming back to me.  Yes the Kapex and the Carvex D-Handle are quite too slippery smooth for my liking.

 

[FestitaMakool]

I know... I have the D handle Carvex. It has a terrible grip.. trigger pivots at the back of the button, leaving you to an awkward hand position and reaching out with your pointy finger, as the grip there falls forward, on top of that it is slippery.. - Amazing - Have the engineers hold other makes D grip saws?
But: And this is my argument, and my own opinion, I still have a variable speed trigger. When get used to, the grip works. And; not to forget, it still have the same body grip and both switches on each side as the barrel grip. Holding this upside down is the same as barrel grip. To a large extent it can also be “barrel operated” the right way up also.