Festool not covering the basics with their cordless offerings

[luvmytoolz]

I would far prefer to have a smaller range of tools of very high quality, good ergonomics, fantastic usability and performance, and high resale value, than a shed full of DeWalts, Makitas, etc. When I started hanging doors decades ago, I couldn't have done it without the very first tracksaw Festool released.

Most trades require a wider range of tools than the Festool range and they regard their tools as expendable which no hobby WW is ever going to do when they buy a premium brand such as Festool. Also not every trade requires the same tools and the very wide range that Makita etc supply is aimed at each trade requiring a different part of the range.

Absolutely true, what I meant but probably didn't articulate too well was I would prefer Festool focus on the smaller range of quality tools that they do, that does cover a lot if not all scenarios, than have them go down the path of the race to the bottom like a lot of the other manufacturers do. I have loads of tools from Makita, Metabo, Hitachi, Triton, etc, etc, and while they all do the job, some better than others, the difference between using a Ryobi sander vs Festool, or pretty much any planer vs the HL850, just doesn't compare.

Part of the reason I got into Festool very early on, was I was starting to develop RSI pretty bad from the tools I was using, changing to Festool with the ergonomics they design into their tools, most especially the sanders, means 40 or so years later I have no trace of RSI whatsoever now. If I use a Metabo or a Makita sander, I definitely feel it after a short while. This is part of the value tools like Festool bring. I would never want to see them dilute their range simply to produce a wider general assortment of tools to compete with other manufacturers.

 

[surfjungle]

Just to reiterate my position as it seems to be getting lost on this second page. Festool could do with adding a few more _common_ power tools. I also agree that they should not put out tools for every conceivable use but right now, there's a few things missing that, from my perspective, reduce the value proposition of Festool's own battery platform. While this might be subjective, they have added items that are clearly not designed / made by them so have set a precedent and are clearly not blind to this request. Before posting, I absolutely accepted that I'd need to use a second vendor - either Makita or Hilti - to plug the gaps. I just like Festool enough to want to see them cover those basics as my first preference, especially with their system integrations.

 

[woodbutcherbower]

Just to reiterate my position as it seems to be getting lost on this second page. Festool could do with adding a few more _common_ power tools. I also agree that they should not put out tools for every conceivable use but right now, there's a few things missing that, from my perspective, reduce the value proposition of Festool's own battery platform. While this might be subjective, they have added items that are clearly not designed / made by them so have set a precedent and are clearly not blind to this request. Before posting, I absolutely accepted that I'd need to use a second vendor - either Makita or Hilti - to plug the gaps. I just like Festool enough to want to see them cover those basics as my first preference, especially with their system integrations.

I personally think that cross-pollination between brands is something we’re going to see more of going forward - and from a financial point of view it makes a whole lot of sense. The R&D/development costs of bringing a new product to market are huge, so if there’s something already out there which can be adapted and rebranded whilst maintaining the quality status of a brand, it’s pretty much the obvious way to go. Whilst I really do understand your frustration at not currently being able to kit out solely with Festool cordless, I actually admire the company for sticking to its core principles of producing innovative, niche tools rather than trying to be all things to all men. The same thing has been happening across the automotive sector for years - the immediate example which springs to mind is that of the Mercedes Sprinter van. The Volkswagen Crafter is the same van with a different badge. Some goes for the M.A.N. TGE = same van, different badge.

One other important factor is that Festool manufactures in Europe, not in some Far Eastern sweatshop - and that means a state-of-the art, expensive-to-operate facility, manned by employees earning a good living, with healthcare, pension etc. all funded by the profit they make on every tool they sell. Unless the company has a good idea that it can sell enough volume to cover these high costs over the lifetime of a product, they just aren’t going to take that level of risk - and rightly so.

 

[surfjungle]

Just to reiterate my position as it seems to be getting lost on this second page. Festool could do with adding a few more _common_ power tools. I also agree that they should not put out tools for every conceivable use but right now, there's a few things missing that, from my perspective, reduce the value proposition of Festool's own battery platform. While this might be subjective, they have added items that are clearly not designed / made by them so have set a precedent and are clearly not blind to this request. Before posting, I absolutely accepted that I'd need to use a second vendor - either Makita or Hilti - to plug the gaps. I just like Festool enough to want to see them cover those basics as my first preference, especially with their system integrations.

I personally think that cross-pollination between brands is something we’re going to see more of going forward - and from a financial point of view it makes a whole lot of sense. The R&D/development costs of bringing a new product to market are huge, so if there’s something already out there which can be adapted and rebranded whilst maintaining the quality status of a brand, it’s pretty much the obvious way to go. Whilst I really do understand your frustration at not currently being able to kit out solely with Festool cordless, I actually admire the company for sticking to its core principles of producing innovative, niche tools rather than trying to be all things to all men. The same thing has been happening across the automotive sector for years - the immediate example which springs to mind is that of the Mercedes Sprinter van. The Volkswagen Crafter is the same van with a different badge. Some goes for the M.A.N. TGE = same van, different badge.

One other important factor is that Festool manufactures in Europe, not in some Far Eastern sweatshop - and that means a state-of-the art, expensive-to-operate facility, manned by employees earning a good living, with healthcare, pension etc. all funded by the profit they make on every tool they sell. Unless the company has a good idea that it can sell enough volume to cover these high costs over the lifetime of a product, they just aren’t going to take that level of risk - and rightly so.

If it came down it it and Festool was to compromise on it's core tenets for a few more basic items, I would still just as happily go with Makita or Hilti. That's an excellent point about the Made-in-Germany items which I presume most are. It's also nice to be supporting a neighbour and the EU.

 

[xedos]

I have to disagree with most of the points immediately above. Festool has innovated many offerings which other companies have tried to imitate over the years. They also make a known consistently good level of quality that despite occasional issues is far and away better than most companies in the industry.

I'm a bit confused as to what you're disagreeing with ?  I never said FT wasn't an innovator; I said their innovations are coming farther and farther apart these days.  They are acquiring more than they are innovating recently. Never said they didn't deliver quality either, I said their spex are usually lower than competitors. 

. A lot of people don't take into account the way everything is a system with Festool, and play nicely together.

  I think your offbase here.  Lots of people take the "system" into account - it's a big selling point.  And as far as everything playing nicely together ........................nope.    The 12v sander batteries don't play with the 12v drills or anything else for that matter.  The cleantec hose end dosen't play well with a lot of older tools and some of the new ones too.  The new SYS3 heights don't align with the previous generations  of systainers.  Deal breakers ?  No, but let's not get carried away with how good and perfect the "system" is.

Festool isn't alone in the concrete world - Metabo's dust management is just as good, and Hilti is right there.  Both co.'s offerings for drilling dust mgmt. put FT to shame.

You missed my point(s) of the marketing fluff entirely.  It was this: 1. Festool can and does partner with other companies to do things outside their core competency - like jackets and pencils.  2. The example was also used to refute another poster's claim that Festool only comes up with stuff if they can make it better or put the "Festool Secret Sauce" into it. Clearly that's not the case with this stuff.  3. In conjunction, I also pointed out that FT partners/ outsources non marketing products like the Vecturo, Radio, handtools, ect........ so to say they can't do this or that because they are small and don't have the resources/contacts to produce new stuff doesn't really seem believable.

I would far prefer to have a smaller range of tools of very high quality, good ergonomics, fantastic usability and performance, and high resale value, than a shed full of DeWalts, Makitas, etc. 

Your preference would seem to align with FT's so I think you're safe there.  I do think you missed other's view re: the lack of offerings.  They don't really want a shed full of festools either - they're simply looking for a bit more than is offered now.  And my contention is Festool could do so if they chose to via partnering.  Something they already do.

 

[surfjungle]

Festool isn't alone in the concrete world - Metabo's dust management is just as good, and Hilti is right there.  Both co.'s offerings for drilling dust mgmt. put FT to shame.

While I have no experience with Metabo nor Hilti, I'm unsurpised to learn this. I bought a H-class Starmix 1635 that's excellent. Mafell's own M-class is a rebadged Starmix M class. It has autoclean on the filters, something Festool did not have until recently and I think they still may not have it on their H-class. I bought it specifically to deal with plaster and fibre glass.
 

3. In conjunction, I also pointed out that FT partners/ outsources non marketing products like the Vecturo, Radio, handtools, ect........ so to say they can't do this or that because they are small and don't have the resources/contacts to produce new stuff doesn't really seem believable.

Exactly. For example, they could contract out a recip spec to either Metabo or TTI (who own Milwaukee etc).

I do think you missed other's view re: the lack of offerings.  They don't really want a shed full of festools either - they're simply looking for a bit more than is offered now.  And my contention is Festool could do so if they chose to via partnering.  Something they already do.

Absolutely. I'm not looking for 20 new offerings, just less than 5 and this is far less subjective that posters think. Look at all the major brands, find out what is used the most. Where there are draws, use the purchase numbers and you should have what the most popular cordless offerings are. I'm willing to bet that Festool are missing a few. That common power tool not part of Festool's core competencies? No problem - find a competent vendor and work on making some genuine value add modifications and BOOM! I never said I don't accept having to have at least one more brand backing me up.

Separately, it's quite amusing to note that Hilti do not have a high torque drill / driver Nuron offering. Their latest only goes up to 85 Nm. Perhaps impact drills are making high torque less important?

 

[surfjungle]

All credit where credit is due. Thank you Festool for providing a recip saw option. Much appreciated
Also it is appreciated that you've redone your CXS and TXS drills to be brushless with 18v and still kept the weight to 700g. Kudos!