I bought a TS 75 EQ from McFeely’s, in the fall of 06 right after they were available. I haven't used it yet, since I have a TS 55 EQ (and 15 other Festools). Last weekend, I was going to rip some heavy material, so the TS 75 EQ seemed like the perfect match. In preparation, I replaced the standard blade with a “Panther Blade” and checked the alignment/offset of the blade relative to the groove on the base of the saw. When I went to loosen the four screws that hold the base to the rest of the saw, I saw three torx/slotted (like on my TS 55 EQ) and one hex socket head. “Strange!” I thought. I emailed Festool, and explained what I saw, and requested that they send me one more torx/slotted screw, which I received yesterday. Today, I tried to replace the odd screw, but to my amazement, I found that the threaded hole in the base had been “Heli-Coiled”(a threaded insert applied typically after a threaded hole is stripped). The Heli-Coil job was very well done, and it doesn’t effect the performance of the saw (Heli-Coils can be better than original threads). I’m just surprised that I got a brand new saw that had been repaired at some point.
Festool Quality Control
- Thread starter Richka
- Start date
Here's my take on this.
Most good manufacturing facilities have what is known as "Standard Repair Procedures" These are approved procedures for certain normal or common manufacturing defects. The repairs do not affect form, fit or function.
Finding a repair like that says to me that the quality control inspector found a stripped out screw and had the unit repaired per process. It is indicative of a good quality control process not a poor one.
I know how you feel though, I buy multi million dollar items with reworks, standard repairs and even some defects dispositioned as "use as is" and it feels like your getting gypped on the quality. But it just ins't cost effective to scrap an item for a minor defect like that when the item can be repaired.
Most good manufacturing facilities have what is known as "Standard Repair Procedures" These are approved procedures for certain normal or common manufacturing defects. The repairs do not affect form, fit or function.
Finding a repair like that says to me that the quality control inspector found a stripped out screw and had the unit repaired per process. It is indicative of a good quality control process not a poor one.
I know how you feel though, I buy multi million dollar items with reworks, standard repairs and even some defects dispositioned as "use as is" and it feels like your getting gypped on the quality. But it just ins't cost effective to scrap an item for a minor defect like that when the item can be repaired.
Ok… If you bought a new car that had 4 nuts on one wheel of the correct size and 1 that was different. And, now you needed two lug wrenches, one of which is the standard size (Festoolie), and one of which is an industry standard, but the car company doesn't sell. And, you have to remember which nut goes where, because the 4 and the 1 are not interchangeable. You would be good with this because the company has a good quality system?
Christian93117
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I'll find out more and will get back to you.
Christian
Christian
Richka,Richka said:
I totally sympathize with you and I thought I implied that it the last paragraph of my initial response. I was simply addressing the "Quality Control" part of your post. There is certainly a customer satisfaction aspect of this as well and it seems that Christian will be addressing that.
It's funny that you use a car as an analogy because I often use the same analogy when I'm arguing...I mean discussing a quality issue with a contractor
Dave Ronyak
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Richka,
Does the hole with the helicoil require a different thread sized fastener? It does seem strange that Festool would use different fasteners if not needed, thereby adding to your inconvenience. But speaking only for myself, I would be delighted if any or all of the threaded holes in aluminum were reinforced with helicoils, because that would make them stronger and more durable. Based on recommendations posted by others on FOG, I purchased Festool's "Toolie Tool" with my 1400 router, MFT and TS 55. Sure enough, my very first use proved frustrating when I discovered that the Phillips head screws for adjusting the bit gap spacing in the router edge guide require a larger bit than is on the Toolie Tool !! My TS 55 came with the base toed out rather than in, and some slop in the hinge pin that secures and locates the base of the saw relative to the motor/blade assembly. This means that side force on the saw does affect the cut line position relative to the guide rail. Festool's technicians state this is normal. Possibly my unit is looser than others. I think it is a slight wearkness in design/manufacturing tolerances which reduces what is otherwise a more precise cutting system. This swivel hinge joint should be factory reamed to fit in my opinion, or the as-manufactured parts could be sorted into batches falling into pre-determined dimensional groups which could then be mated to minimize the overall slop of the assembles with little additional cost. GMC used this technique decades ago to build Z-28 engines with very closely matched sets of bearing and connecting rods at low expense. They simply dabbed them with different colors of paint to identify which tolerance range they fit.
Does the hole with the helicoil require a different thread sized fastener? It does seem strange that Festool would use different fasteners if not needed, thereby adding to your inconvenience. But speaking only for myself, I would be delighted if any or all of the threaded holes in aluminum were reinforced with helicoils, because that would make them stronger and more durable. Based on recommendations posted by others on FOG, I purchased Festool's "Toolie Tool" with my 1400 router, MFT and TS 55. Sure enough, my very first use proved frustrating when I discovered that the Phillips head screws for adjusting the bit gap spacing in the router edge guide require a larger bit than is on the Toolie Tool !! My TS 55 came with the base toed out rather than in, and some slop in the hinge pin that secures and locates the base of the saw relative to the motor/blade assembly. This means that side force on the saw does affect the cut line position relative to the guide rail. Festool's technicians state this is normal. Possibly my unit is looser than others. I think it is a slight wearkness in design/manufacturing tolerances which reduces what is otherwise a more precise cutting system. This swivel hinge joint should be factory reamed to fit in my opinion, or the as-manufactured parts could be sorted into batches falling into pre-determined dimensional groups which could then be mated to minimize the overall slop of the assembles with little additional cost. GMC used this technique decades ago to build Z-28 engines with very closely matched sets of bearing and connecting rods at low expense. They simply dabbed them with different colors of paint to identify which tolerance range they fit.
The OEM fastener used to secure the base to the rest of the saw (and to adjust blade ofset/alignment) is a special engineered fastener (my opinion) designed to hold in low strength metals. This is NOT something you are going to find at the corner hardware store. It measures ~5.15 mm OD and has a thread pitch of ~1.25 mm. The replacement heli-coil was a standard M5 (5mm OD with 0.8 mm pitch). The OEM fastener doesn’t have a typical 60 degree thread form. Instead, it looks more like a “Euro Screw” or a “Confirmat” screw designed to hold in particle board with sharp threads and lot of space between them.
I got a call from the “Technical Manager” (or something like that) from McFeely’s, and he said that I could be assured that McFeely’s didn’t repair the saw. He thought that Festool would be contacting me shortly, but so far NOTHING.
I got a call from the “Technical Manager” (or something like that) from McFeely’s, and he said that I could be assured that McFeely’s didn’t repair the saw. He thought that Festool would be contacting me shortly, but so far NOTHING.
Christian93117
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We didn't get a satisfying answer from the factory yet. As soon as we hear something, we will
post the answer and get in touch with you.
Christian
post the answer and get in touch with you.
Christian
Christian93117
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Richka,
I found out more about your TS75 saw.
First let me assure you that McFeely’s does not repair Festool products or sells repaired Festool products. The saw they sold to you came like this from the Festool factory. McFeely’s has nothing to do with the helicoil and they were not aware of it. McFeely’s sells the tools as they get them from us.
A couple of TS75 saws were stopped in the final quality control process. They weren't 100% sure about one of the holes and felt it would be safer to reinforce the hole with a helicoil. This makes the hole stronger and is an accepted procedure. Having said that, it is not a standard operating procedure to use a different screw. While it does not affect the durability of the saw or the quality of the cut, it is an inconvenience for the customer. It is assured that it will not happen again.
If you don't feel 100% comfortable with your saw, please email me and I will make sure to exchange it for a new one. I apologize for the inconvenience.
Regards,
Christian
I found out more about your TS75 saw.
First let me assure you that McFeely’s does not repair Festool products or sells repaired Festool products. The saw they sold to you came like this from the Festool factory. McFeely’s has nothing to do with the helicoil and they were not aware of it. McFeely’s sells the tools as they get them from us.
A couple of TS75 saws were stopped in the final quality control process. They weren't 100% sure about one of the holes and felt it would be safer to reinforce the hole with a helicoil. This makes the hole stronger and is an accepted procedure. Having said that, it is not a standard operating procedure to use a different screw. While it does not affect the durability of the saw or the quality of the cut, it is an inconvenience for the customer. It is assured that it will not happen again.
If you don't feel 100% comfortable with your saw, please email me and I will make sure to exchange it for a new one. I apologize for the inconvenience.
Regards,
Christian
Lou Miller
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Christian O. said:
Kind of hard to top that...
clintholeman
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Richka said:
That's the problem with FesTool - if you have a problem, they make it right. Scarry that customer service model. Maybe that's why I keep buying from them!
Wow,
This is simply amazing. Festool is willing to replace a tool if you are not completely satisfied when in fact there is nothing functionally wrong with the one initially sold. I agree that it might be a small inconvenience on the rare occasion that you might have to adjust it, but it is pretty cool that they are willing to correct it... I bought a new BMW and it has been in the shop 4 times since I have owned it (18 months)... After the second time, I started to get attitude... Because of that attitude, I most likely will never buy a BMW again. Because of Festool's attitude, I will continue to purchasing their products...
Oh yea, speaking of purchasing Festool's products, my brand spanking new Domino just Arrived. Have not used it yet, but it is pretty nice looking...
Matt
This is simply amazing. Festool is willing to replace a tool if you are not completely satisfied when in fact there is nothing functionally wrong with the one initially sold. I agree that it might be a small inconvenience on the rare occasion that you might have to adjust it, but it is pretty cool that they are willing to correct it... I bought a new BMW and it has been in the shop 4 times since I have owned it (18 months)... After the second time, I started to get attitude... Because of that attitude, I most likely will never buy a BMW again. Because of Festool's attitude, I will continue to purchasing their products...
Oh yea, speaking of purchasing Festool's products, my brand spanking new Domino just Arrived. Have not used it yet, but it is pretty nice looking...
Matt
