Festool Syslite overview

[ericbuggeln]

If what I said offended anyone I apologize. It was not meant to do so. I was merely stating my personal opinion on the tool. This is a tool forum where people express their personal opinions on a daily basis and it is America. Sorry if you dont agree with me. If youre having a great time with your Syslite I can dig that, just not for me, Eric

 

[Kev]

If what I said offended anyone I apologize. It was not meant to do so. I was merely stating my personal opinion on the tool. This is a tool forum where people express their personal opinions on a daily basis and it is America. Sorry if you dont agree with me. If youre having a great time with your Syslite I can dig that, just not for me, Eric

This is the Internet ... not America, it's "the world"  [smile]

(and probably a good bandwidth connection into the international space station too)

 

[nehardwoodfloors]

If what I said offended anyone I apologize. It was not meant to do so. I was merely stating my personal opinion on the tool. This is a tool forum where people express their personal opinions on a daily basis and it is America. Sorry if you dont agree with me. If youre having a great time with your Syslite I can dig that, just not for me, Eric

In trying to point out everyone's lack of sanity, you make yourself sound like a man who is easily swayed by what others think.
Why else come on this thread and repeatedly state the same thing twice?
I bought the light for myself, end of story.

 

[tbellemare]

Just for curiosity's sake, I did some digging and Cree sells LEDs commercially that exceed 100 lumens per watt (~130).

From what I can tell, LEDs used in "bulbs" lose efficacy. The array in the SysLite appears to be on a PC board. I don't know for certain that it would be more efficient to use them that way but my gut says it would be significantly more efficient.

Tom

 

[Ken Nagrod]

I tried earlier to joke about the craziness in this thread, but as a member of JLC, I thought I should bring this to light.  What's that saying about not throwing stones at glass houses?

Quote from the JLC forum post #13 in his router table thread:

Hoover, give the FOG another chance if you havent been there since Festool took it over. It has gotten a lot better then it was before. Obviously you would rather have the site not run by the people who make the tools, but for example they just posted video on how to tension the Trion jigsaw. I had never seen or heard of that method in any demo day, training class, or Festool event, but it has really helped jigsawing ability to have the tool properly tensioned. Plus they dont allow personal attacks from one member to another anymore, thanks Eric

EDIT:  Guess my dry humor about distorted sayings was overshadowed by my seriousness or have you guys figured me out by now.  [tongue]  And for those who don't remember from my first FOG post, I popped in very occasionally since 2007 before signing up and I've been told stuff about the past.  I'm well aware.

 

[David NY]

Wow...so much to cover..and so many landmines to step on.

I don't feel like loosing a leg today, so I'll add this:

In short, circuitry increases efficiency of an LED for a couple of basic reasons (not exhaustive here guys-no grenades please)-

1.  circuitry allows the output of the LED to be regulated which not only determines run-time but also an ancillary causal bi-product- HEAT

The more that heat can be regulated (through, heat sinks, or whatever) the more efficient the LED can draw upon its source more efficiently to supply the demanded "load".

This believe it or not, is one of the reasons that flashlights have a certain amount of lumens. Many times the desired lumens output is determined by how much heat the unit wants to be limited to. This is because heat kills battery life.

To come round the mine field full circle now, circuitry is but one way( and not a bad way mind you) of how to help in this arena.
Cree LED are a quality diode in that they work well with circuitry, respond well to current draw (some diodes don't like current-what does "don't like" mean? it could mean it blows up, burns up, kills the battery, short circuits the system and a few other things).

I digressed here a bit, in the musings of my geek head, so sorry.

David

p.s. Hmmm I still have my legs for the moment

 

[hockey_magnet]

I just find it funny that a year ago none of you guys even needed a light, but Festool makes one at an insulting price point and now you cant stop talking about it. Not one person at JLC is talking about it except Kreg. Everyone there is insulted by the price and more turned off by Festool then ever. The only people buying Syslites are extreme Festool fanatics who would buy my dogs turd if it came in a systainer. Regular carpenters and specifically electricians, plumbers, and HVAC guys, who could actually use the thing laugh at that price point. Im the biggest Festool fan out there, see "Festool Nerd Alert" thread, but this product is a disaster and its funny to see you guys swoon over it. Whats next "Wallpaper Perforator" thread. That will be the day I take my Festool T shirt off for good. And for all of you guys that use high end stuff, I use the best light in the galaxy, blows the Syslite away, thanks Erichttps://encrypted-tbn3.google.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQJRYsMklnigoUhFkXNXd2WKLiIjK7s0VXV9ev2E9sBTA2ne1uL

Sorry, but how do you know we didn't need a light? Most of us I think use a work light at times and so we probably all need one. Your lighting solution isn't always available, is it?   [embarassed] I also don't think you have a good understanding of the research, development and manufacturing costs of what to you may seem like a simple item. You don't seem to mind paying a premium for Festools when it's something you want or need. No diiference IMHO comparing a $200 syslite to a $40 or $60 work light and a $1500 Kapex or $700 TS to a $149 Ryobi saw. You are entitled to your opinion of the Syslite but should not denigrate others for buying it. You should have more respect for others on this forum. Just state your opinion without the embellishments and be done with it.

BTW, I certainly thought twice before buying the Syslite. What closed the deal for me aside from the quality of the product was the fact that I already have Festool batteries for it.

 

[Peter James]

Wow...so much to cover..and so many landmines to step on.

I don;t feel like loosing a leg today, so I'll add this:

In short, circuitry increases efficiency of an LED for a couple of basic reasons (not exhaustive here guys-no grenades please)-

1.  circuitry allows the output of the LED to be regulated which not only determines run-time but also an ancillary causal bi-product- HEAT

The more that heat can be regulated (through, heat sinks, or whatever) the more efficient the LED can draw upon its source to output more efficiently form the demanded "load".

This believe it or not, is one of the reasons that flashlights have a certain amount of lumens. Many times the desired lumens output is determined by how much heat the unit wants to be limited to. This is because heat kills battery life.

To come round the mine field full circle now, circuitry is but one way( and not a bad way mind you) of how to help in this arena.
Cree LED are a quality diode in that they work well with circuitry, respond well to current draw (some diodes don't like current-what does "don't like" mean? it could mean it blows up, burns up, kills the battery, short circuits the system and a few other things).

I digressed here a bit, in the musings of my geek head, so sorry.

David

p.s. Hmmm I still have my legs for the moment

[popcorn] What he said....

 

[David NY]

I've seen multiple places that cool white LEDs can easily exceed 100 lumens/watt.

Tom

Am I missing something here?!  LEDs's can easily throw out well of 100 lumens.    ONE   LED  can throw out 2800 lumens easily    so festool Syslite IF festool wanted  they could stick  6 of them 2800 lumens  it would light up a large garden EASILY!  not saying the battery would last very long!  But I have a torch which only has ONE led and throws out 1800 lumens   and lasts 3 hours on rechargeable batteries on full beam  lights up the garden!

The torch did cost 3 times the price of the festool Syslite!  So cant imagine if festool put some of them super LED's in their Syslite how much it would cost

JMB

Also guys (back on the field again) do realize that lumens is (I am NOT quoting Webster here) a measurement of output of light. it is NOT focus-able. Reflectors are a major component of a quality flashlight and a significant contributing factor to the overall production cost of the device "throwing" lumens down range.

Take a Cree Led, or any other quality diode, and swap out the reflector with another type that came from a lesser quality light and test it. Now take a very fine quality, Italian crystal made reflector and change the angle of that housing so that the degrees in which the lumens strike that surface...now for a goof, modify angle of the the reflector so that it is not consistent across the surface in degrees, so that the reflector is 20 degrees coming out from the LED and widens to 28 degrees where it meets the bezel..all these things will determine how "bright" a lighting device "appears" even if the measured lumens output are ANSI rated and accurately recorded as being identical. And this is also a component of production costs.

...but hey, if someone wants a hook on it instead so it does not fall off a rafter while working at precipitously dangerous angles from a short A-Frame ladder..well by all means, re-allocate the funds to accommodate the man!!!



David

 

[ericbuggeln]

Ken, I made a blanket statement about Festool purchasing, not an attack on a single member, but thanks for pointing it out. You werent a member of this forum when those "attacks" were taking place, but I will tell you all about it next time i see you, Eric

 

[andvari]

Just for curiosity's sake, I did some digging and Cree sells LEDs commercially that exceed 100 lumens per watt (~130).

From what I can tell, LEDs used in "bulbs" lose efficacy. The array in the SysLite appears to be on a PC board. I don't know for certain that it would be more efficient to use them that way but my gut says it would be significantly more efficient.

Here's something I found on Wikipedia:

"As an example of how lumens can vary, take the 4Sevens Quark MiNi 123. This flashlight features a Cree XP-G LED with an R5 brightness bin that gives 139 lumens at 350mA. The MiNi probably drives the LED at closer to 1000mA, so the XP-G specs indicate 250% of the nominal luminous flux or 347.5 lumens at the emitter. However, 4Sevens advertises 189 out-the-front lumens. When bigchelis tested the MiNi 123 with a CR123A primary cell, he got a reading of 142 lumens when the light was turned on and 137 lumens at 3 minutes (with a higher voltage, faster draining IMR cell, MrGman measured 200 lumens at turn-on and 190 lumens at 2 minutes). Later on, 4Sevens introduced a version of this light with a S2 bin XP-G LED which should be 7% brighter. However for this light they used FL-1 testing and advertise only 135 lumens. "

Please check my thinking but it looks to me like this is a 100 (or more) lumen/watt LED however the actual output in a flashlight is less than half that rating with standard batteries. A bit more with better batteries.

Perhaps the light output of the Syslight is more than 1000 lumens I originally estimated, but I sure don't see it being more than 2000.

 

[tbellemare]

I don't know the actual output of the SysLite and don't really have a good feel for what 1000 or 2000 lumens looks like.

This Cree LED seems like a candidate for a design like a SysLite:

[attachimg=#1]

This is a selector tool that Cree provides and it shows that LED, depending on the color, to be north of 160 or north of 130 lumens/watt. The last one in the list, the XLamp XT-E, is pushing 200 lumens/watt.

[attachimg=#2]

It also seems apparent that the harder you drive these (more current), the less efficient they are.

Tom

 

[Ken Nagrod]

I should be able to settle this debate with my assistant, Dave Reinhold's help, within the next few days.  No joke.  Real proof, then you decide.

 

[andvari]

I don't know the actual output of the SysLite and don't really have a good feel for what 1000 or 2000 lumens looks like.

This Cree LED seems like a candidate for a design like a SysLite:

This is a selector tool that Cree provides and it shows that LED, depending on the color, to be north of 160 or north of 130 lumens/watt. The last one in the list, the XLamp XT-E, is pushing 200 lumens/watt.

It also seems apparent that the harder you drive these (more current), the less efficient they are.

Tom

Given the radiation pattern of the Syslight is probably unique I certainly wouldn't want to try to estimate its output by eye.

I'd say that since Festool is calling these 3W LEDs it is pretty likely these are driven somewhere between 800-1000 ma. If they are driven at a lower current the efficiency may be higher but the total output will be lower. That wouldn't be right from a product design POV especially since these have nice Li ion batteries.

 

[tjbnwi]

I just finished a job where I installed one of these cost me $199.00;

http://www.prolighting.com/wpled13.html

Sent an estimate for 11 4" recessed lights with Xactbeam LED bulbs, the bulbs are $59.00 each.

Just like any "new" technology, the cost of these will come down.

The lamps will pay for themselves.

Eric,

If I win the job with the recessed cans, I will invest in a couple of Syslites. I have to work in an attic, in mid July, and it being in the Chicagoland area, all EMT. I have a Home Depot LED rechargeable light. I gave up on returning it after the third one. The battery won't charge, and the light output is not that good, when plugged in. It has about 30 LED's in it. Wasn't worth the $65.00, I got it for confined space work, and all it does is take up space now.

I use the same screen name at JLC.  I always laugh when you and the others get in a pissing match. I guess I'm just not smart enough to figure out what someone else needs to succeed.

Tom

 

[GPowers]

I just finished a job where I installed one of these cost me $199.00;

http://www.prolighting.com/wpled13.html

Tom

Very cool light

 

[ericbuggeln]

Tom, i always thought the point of online forums was to argue. Forums are full of opinionated people, im one of the biggest. Eric

 

[tjbnwi]

There you go Eric, getting yourself in trouble thinking. You gotta stop doing that. Am I gonna have to start deleting your posts in Trade Talk over at JLC???? You, Jim and Johnson, what a party that would be!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!(Hope this came across dripping sarcasm)

I never looked at forums as a place to argue. More to share ideas, respectful of others ideas.

I'll reserve final judgement on the Syslite until I get to use it. Seeing as it is a tool, I can always send it back.

I know a plumber who lost part of his calf to a halogen light, he knocked a spray paint can into the light behind him, didn't know it, when the can exploded the shrapnel remove half of his right leg calf muscle.

Tom

 

[woodguy7]

Jeez, talk about bad luck.  Never heard about that happening before !

Don't have one, never seen one but I think I want one  [embarassed]

Oh, I don't come on here for arguments either  ;D

 

[Scott B.]

I don't know how halogen lights can possibly be osha compliant. I can tell you how much it sucks to have one in the room you are using oil paint, thinner and rags in. It sucks. Watched a guy run clear through a house to the bidet when the thinner rag in his back pocket started smoldering into his butt cheek when he got within a couple feet of a halogen.

Anyone want to see my video of how to light a cigar on a halogen? That is one downside to the syslite.