Festool Table saw.....dado stack

[Chris Cianci]

When the Festool table saw w SawStop technology is out in NA is it scheduled to be able to use a dado stack?

 

[AlexThePalex]

Me not Festool ..... but ..... not gonna happen.

Dados are not used in Europe, and they will not redesign that saw. And the saw will probably not even come to the USA.

 

[CeeJay]

Is that right? Dadoes not used/not legal in Europe?

Why is that?

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[ChuckM]

You can't use the blade guard with a dado stack (except for rabbets). Not using the blade guard is a no-no in the EU.

North America only caught up with the riving knife standard not too long ago, something that has been a standard in the EU. Saw manufacturers blamed the delay on extra costs that consumers wouldn't want to pay for...similar arguments used for not fitting their saws with the finger-saving technology when they had the chance.

 

[FestitaMakool]

You can't use the blade guard with a dado stack (except for rabbets). Not using the blade guard is a no-no in the EU.

North America only caught up with the riving knife standard not too long ago, something that has been a standard in the EU. Saw manufacturers blamed the delay on extra costs that consumers wouldn't want to pay for...similar arguments used for not fitting their saws with the finger-saving technology when they had the chance.

- Or riving knife, but I guess you meant that also.

On Presicio saws there’s an opportunity to use the saw without the blade guard, and by lowering the riving knife by a firm push downwards on the knife, it will then lover to a “hidden cut” position.
With this function you’ll still have most of the riving knife’s function, but still can do a “dado” cut.
Albeit, only with standard blades.

 

[FestitaMakool]

Photos says more..  [big grin]:

First two shows riving knife in top position and blade guard in place.
[attachimg=1][attachimg=2]

Riving knife in top position w/o blade guard.
[attachimg=3]

Riving knife in lowered position (pushed down).
[attachimg=4]

The whole operation takes about 20 sec.

 

[AlexThePalex]

Is that right? Dadoes not used/not legal in Europe?

Why is that?

To be honest, I don't know exactly. But they are totally not used here and dado blades are not sold. I don't know if they're illegal or not, but no one sells them and there are no saws on which they fit.

I'd guess they figure we do dados with a router, and we do. Or the approach with a table saw were you make multiple cuts a tiny little bit side by side.

 

[CeeJay]

Ok. I guess it’s blade guard related as someone mentioned.

I have to say I love my dado stack on the table saw. Super quick and convenient for cabinetry. Interesting if it is related to  blade guard given it’s the only operation where the blade isn’t exposed!!

Also love my 6mm flat top grind blade for drawer bottoms etc. I guess also couldn’t use something like this on a CMS?

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[ChuckM]

The unexposed blade stack can be a hidden danger that catches an inattentive user or a newbie off guard.

I learned of a serious shop accident in which the operator got his palm severely injured when he was pushing a board over the stack. As his bare hand was on the work directly over the stack, a kickback occurred.

Another dado injury I heard of was when an operator pushed a board past the spinning stack which also sliced a bit of his thumb as his hand was not placed far away enough.

These days, I seldom use the dado stack (thanks to using the DF500), but I'm aware of the need to use push pads whenever I still need to cut rabbets on the table saw.

 

[DeformedTree]

Is that right? Dadoes not used/not legal in Europe?

Why is that?

To be honest, I don't know exactly. But they are totally not used here and dado blades are not sold. I don't know if they're illegal or not, but no one sells them and there are no saws on which they fit.

I'd guess they figure we do dados with a router, and we do. Or the approach with a table saw were you make multiple cuts a tiny little bit side by side.

I think it's many things, and yeah, you guys being big into using routers for everything (in part because of track systems), long before other parts of the world probably had something to do with it.

What is interesting though is in the EU,  companies sell "groovers", which are basically circular saws with dado blades in them.  Which is strange those are fine, but the same thing mounted in a frame is not.  Similar with the massive hand held planers.

I don't think anyone here would look at their skil saw and think "I should put a dado stack in that".

 

[Rob Z]

Dado sets must be sold in some places in Europe.  I've seen some of  Timothy Wilmots' videos that show his Felder slider set up  for dado work.

 

[Svar]

I believe it has to do with blade break on Euro saws. Heavy dado stack risks unwinding the nut when breaking. Some higher end saws have pins that keep blade from slipping, thus allowing dado blades. Just speculating here.

 

[threesixright]

Me not Festool ..... but ..... not gonna happen.

Dados are not used in Europe, and they will not redesign that saw. And the saw will probably not even come to the USA.

Nope.

Felder / Hammer has a “dado” stack. Available in Europe. You can go from 8-18,5 mm (according to their website).

Harvey (cabinet saw) can also fit one.

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[Jiggy Joiner]

I have been told without question they are illegal in the UK, because it involves blade guard removal. Others have dismissed this as nonsense.
I am not sure either way, what I will say is, There are users of dado or UK termed “housing” or “trench” stacks in the UK, I see them when visiting some timber mills.

There are as mentioned European tools made, that demonstrate the guard removed, so a dado can be cut, albeit with a single blade. Work that out? [scratch chin]

However, the majority have either large router tables set up, or spindle moulders, and cut dado’s and rabbet’s or what we term as rebates on them.
Over here routers and spindle moulders are like a multi tool, and used for all sorts of jobs.
To be fair, it’s probably a lot safer cutting a dado on a router table or spindle moulder, with all the guards in place, than it is on a table or cabinet saw.

 

[threesixright]

I have been told without question they are illegal in the UK, because it involves blade guard removal. Others have dismissed this as nonsense.

They lie [big grin]

For the Hammer B3 its just a option:

Preparation for Dado tooling up to ¾” (19.5 mm) width

https://www.felder-group.com/en-gb/...moulders-c1950/saw-spindle-moulder-b3-p142682

Search for DADO...

Felder/Hammer, I think, is one of the few in EU that has adapted their saw (legally) for this.

 

[Jiggy Joiner]

I have been told without question they are illegal in the UK, because it involves blade guard removal. Others have dismissed this as nonsense.

They lie [big grin]

For the Hammer B3 its just a option:

Preparation for Dado tooling up to ¾” (19.5 mm) width

https://www.felder-group.com/en-gb/...moulders-c1950/saw-spindle-moulder-b3-p142682

Search for DADO...

Felder/Hammer, I think, is one of the few in EU that has adapted their saw (legally) for this.

Well I’m now more unsure than I was an hour ago.
After some googling, all kinds showed up, including link to UK government law on this stuff, which also includes router and spindle moulder cutters.

Some say the dado stack is illegal because, the blade guard removal, the saw needs to be braked, and stop un aided in a certain time. (Under 10 seconds) I think?

Then I read a thread where a woodworker presenter of a UK woodwork show, set up and used a dado stack on a cabinet saw on the show. Apparently, he checked with all the relevant authorities, who gave him the all clear?

From what I’ve read, I can’t see how they are illegal over here, and even if they were, how would they police it?

I could buy a European machine, ship it over and use it for the rest of my days, who’s going to stop me, who’s even bothered? 

 

[AlexThePalex]

The Hammer B3 is a combination machine that can do various things. Combination machines are mostly stationary only, and perfectly legal. Of course you can put a dado in there also, the machine is built for that kind of things. It is not a saw only.

 

[Doug S]

I think here in the UK you can use a dado stack if you comply with all the regs when using it but this is hard to do as the table saws are not generally designed to take them.

The problems are arbors are too short, guards need to be removed, the tip speed is reduced because the dado stacks are often smaller then the blades, the extra weight of the dado stack messes up the length of time the blade takes to stop etc.

If it is for personal use it's up to the individual if they are willing to take the risks but if you are a business you need to comply with regs for insurance purposes.

 

[threesixright]

The Hammer B3 is a combination machine that can do various things. Combination machines are mostly stationary only, and perfectly legal. Of course you can put a dado in there also, the machine is built for that kind of things. It is not a saw only.

I don't think it matter if it's a combination machine, they also have a K3, and it has the same option. Here they even show hot its works (on a K3):=666

[quote author=Alex] But they are totally not used here and dado blades are not sold. I don't know if they're illegal or not, but no one sells them and there are no saws on which they fit. [/quote]

Was just mention this, since you strongly stated DADO's are not used/sold in Europe...

 

[threesixright]

From what I’ve read, I can’t see how they are illegal over here, and even if they were, how would they police it?

Wel, depending on the brand (pretty sure a Hammer K3/B3 would be fine), I guess they can't (police it). However, if you run into some type of accident maybe the insurance could stir-up some issues?