Festool TS55 or Table saw? which one

[ccarrolladams]

I have $600 and want to get into making cabinets, bookshelves and desks.  I will be working with mostly furniture grade plywood and I need a saw..... I have been looking at the Festool TS 55 as well as a Rigid R4512 TS from Home Depot.  The R4512 is $529 and the TS55 is around that same price, so I am debating on which to get.  Which would you get if you could only get one?  If you have both of these saws, which do you find yourself using more? or which could you do without if you had to get rid of one? Thanks.

First of all PapaPont, a great big Welcome to FOG!

Many other members have posted answers to help you decide.

Had you come to me asking advice, chances are I already would know about your woodworking experience and which tools you already own.

In early 2006 I was looking for a table saw I could use in a spare room of my condo to build cabinets. My dealer sells more than one brand of professional table saws ranging upward from portable small contractor saws. He also is a Festool dealer and he had known me from all the years I had a large shop. He knew I needed glue-ready straight cuts in plywood, as do all of us making cabinets.

No way did I have space in my condo for a table saw able to break down full sheets of plywood. To do so you need over 8' behind and in front of the blade.

So I bought a TS55 with 2 extra 55" rails. One was long enough for cross cuts and the other 2 coupled handled the 8' rips. All those Festool TS55 cuts are glue-ready, yet I only needed a space 8' wide by 12' long, giving me 2' to work all around a sheet. Besides the TS55 and the extra guide rails I bought a CT22 dust extractor. Perhaps with the small table saw a shop vac costing less than the CT26 would work, but you will need dust collection.

Your question does not make it clear if you expect to be in the business of woodworking or if this is your passion as a hobby.

Other have correctly pointed out that in the business of cabinet making breaking down the plywood sheets is only one step. Assuming you are only making frameless style cabinets you will at least need to edge band the exposed end-grain. Almost certainly there will be cleats to make to hand uppers and attach counter tops. To make those solid lumber parts you will at the lest need a power miter saw.

In the real world it is very difficult to make a profit in the USA only building frameless cabinets. To make face-frames you will need most of the usual woodworking equipment. You will need at least one router, and those create both dust and chips, so probably you will need a larger hose for your dust extractor. Frame-less cabinets nearly always require LR32 style holes for adjustable shelves. For those you will need a plunge router and some sort of template. The Festool OF1010 plunge router is not very expensive and has an attachment which works with a 55" or longer guide rail with LR32 holes.

Sure, if you are making cabinets for your own use there are less efficient ways to drill those holes.

Just remember when you start to try selling your cabinets you are competing with shops staffed by talented experienced cabinet makers using CNC routers, pressure beam saws, sliding table saws which handle 4x10 sheets as well as rough hardwood over 4" thick. Such shops typically have joiners and thickness planers 20" or more wide, several router tables and a joiner or 2, plus a wide belt sander. Such shops buy several hundred sheets of cabinet grade plywood a month, so their price is much lower than the cost of a few sheets at a time.

My advice is to start with a sacrificial sheet, some saw horses, a 55" and a pair of 55" coupled rails, a TS55 with a spare blade, a dust extractor, some Festool guide rail clamps. To assemble your cabinets you will need some cabinet makers bar clamps.

The investment in either a TS55 or a small table saw is just the beginning of your functioning cabinet shop.

My grandfather used to say it is real easy to make a small fortune woodworking, so long as you start with a big fortune.

 

[mikeneron]

I was in the same situation a couple years ago and decided to go with the TS55.  I grew up on a farm and the only table saw was one that is probably 75 years old.  The thing scared the bejeesus out of me, so always have that in the back of my mind when I think of table saws.  So for me, it was an easy choice as the TS55 is a lot safer than a table saw.  To each his own though I guess.  I mainly work with sheet goods and haven't regretted my choice thus far.

 

[Mavrik]

I got the TS55 because of the safety.
Never had kickback on anything yet ... and the blade is always f-a-r away from my fingers.
And it cuts hard wood just fine.

 

[pugilato]

To cut sheet goods with a table saw, you need one of the big ones.  I have a Bosch 4000-09 (which is a great saw), and until I got the TS55, to cut sheet goods I would whip out the circular saw, cut to withing 1/2" of final dimension, and then finish it off on the table saw.  With the Festool, I have just been doing the one operation.

In the end, I think you need both, as the table saw can do things that the TS55 can't do (at least easily).

 

[sancho57]

Pappont,

What the others have said.
Here is a good set of short videos made by a friend of mine. I have adopted his method and have been successful with it.

The Basics of Cabinet Making Part 1

though you could use the paralell guide system rather then a table saw. If I have a lot of repetitive cuts to make I use the paralell guides. Depends which is easier for the particular job.

Carcass Assembly Part 5a

Carcass Assembly Part 5b

 

[GruntSgt]

I started looking at Festool because I moved and did not have room for my Delta cabinet saw, it was about 84" wide and 48" deep without the flip-up extensions necessary to cut full sheets of plywood. The TS 55 makes better cuts with less stress (not having to manhandle a full sheet while cutting) so long as you have a stable cutting table to work on.

I do still keep a small contractor saw for ripping hardwood, as there are some things you can do in a pinch with the TS55 but they are still simpler with a table saw. For cabinets or other case goods you cannot beat the TS 55.

Be forewarned, Festool is addictive. I started with the TS 55 as a table saw replacement and then decided I NEEDED a dust extractor (in truth I did, without out one you end up filling your pockets with sawdust) and as long as I was getting the vacuum I decided to add a sander...

Fast forward to the Domino, then the MFT 3 (which really expands the utility of the TS 55) and I just added the OF 1400 router last week. It is the first router I have owned that I did not intensely dislike using, and the dust extraction is the primary reason. The Carvex is on order and I am trying to justify another sander.

The bottom line with Festool is that the system really shines when used together, i.e. the guide rails/MFT 3 with the TS 55 and routers and the dust extractor/plug-it cords with all tools.

What he said [tongue]

 

[pugilato]

I just looked at the Joe Fusco videos, and I thinks I have to buy the MFT table... BTW, I went to the Joe Fusco web site (unfortunately, he died about a year ago) and he has very cool stuff on there.  He's a good teacher, does not rush, and I recommend.

To the guy who started this thread, check this out... Go to the Festool jigs and enhancements discussion, and find the rolling cut table.  The thing is beyond sweet, and will throw any notions about a table saw out the window (if you plan to work on sheet goods).

 

[Kevin Stricker]

I say go with the tablesaw.  You can break down sheet goods with a skillsaw and home made rail very easily, that is about a $50 investment.  Once you break down the ply into rough cabinet sizes it is much easier to get consistent results with a tablesaw then when a rail saw.  With a railsaw you have to measure each cut which brings human judgement and error into the equation.  With a tablesaw you set the fence and if the saw is setup properly you get consistent results.

With a tablesaw you can make raised panel doors, something you cannot do with a TS55.  You can also make face frames, rabbits and dados.  With a TS55 by itself you can make cabinets but you will struggle to get them square.  You cannot make rabbits or dados so you will have to rely on butt joint construction.

If you already have a solid shop with a router and router table you can get by with a rail saw instead of a tablesaw but it really is a compromise.  Lot's of people here are all about Festool rail saws but if Festool could sell tablesaws in the states I am sure their tunes would change.  

I would recommend looking to get a used cabinet saw over a new Rigid hybrid.  

 

[Electric Trim]

At this point, I tell any friends/anyone that asks... get a track saw before a large shop table saw (maybe not before a small bench top or portable table saw)!  You can more easily around a 10 pound saw opposed to a 70-90 lb. sheet of plywood.  It has changed the way that I cut material for cabinets and built ins.

 

[kfitzsimons]

  I also have both - TS55, a few rails, large and small MFT's and a Delta Unisaw. Every time I think about getting rid of my Unisaw, the next time I build a piece of furniture, I decide (AGAIN) I can't live without the table saw. On my Unisaw, I use a Biesmeyer cut-off sled. They don't make them any more, but you can make one from ply and wood fences. The cut-off sled makes the table saw very safe and very accurate. I've been using a table saw for 40 years and have never had a kickback issue. My Unisaw is fitted with a Biesmeyer splitter with anti-kickback pawls. A pretty safe set-up for ripping.  I find the table saw much better for ripping long (or short for that matter) stiles and rails or any narrow piece. Also for ripping 1/4" strips of solid wood (mostly cherry) for using as edge banding on plywood.
  I don't like handling large sheets of plywood. When I have made my cut list for a project, I have the wood supplier cut the sheets down to a size I can get inside my car or on my roof rack. So no real need to use the TS55 for breaking down large sheets. The TS55 and MFT tables are great for small sheet goods projects or going on location. My brother-in-law was stunned at how versatile and accurate the Festool set-up was when we worked on the family cabin. Couldn't bring the Unisaw to the lake! And didn't need to with the Festools.
  I would look on Craigslist for a good used cabinet saw or older Craftsman table saw. There's plenty of them out there for under $500. Upgrade to a really good fence and blade. A Forrest Woodworker II blade - can't go wrong with it.
  Oh, and buy a TS55 with a dust collector too. Almost no dust at all.
  Which one first? I've always had a table saw and I actually found my TS55 used on Craigslist. It was like new and was about 75% the cost of new. I was lucky. There aren't many used ones for sale. You'll end up with both if you stay in woodworking unless you go all hand tools.
  It's a tough choice. Good luck.
 

 

[sancho57]

I just looked at the Joe Fusco videos, and I thinks I have to buy the MFT table... BTW, I went to the Joe Fusco web site (unfortunately, he died about a year ago) and he has very cool stuff on there.  He's a good teacher, does not rush, and I recommend.

To the guy who started this thread, check this out... Go to the Festool jigs and enhancements discussion, and find the rolling cut table.  The thing is beyond sweet, and will throw any notions about a table saw out the window (if you plan to work on sheet goods).

Joe was a nice guy very knowledgeable ad gave freely to all who asked. I saw his video and talked to him about the festool system. he was the reason I started down the festool road.

 

[PapaPont]

Thanks for all the replies guys!  I love watching Joe Fusco's video's on YouTube and that's how I found out about Festools.... Too bad he has passed as he seems like a great guy and a great woodworker/teacher.

 

[fdengel]

Your going to need the 3000mm guide rail, the Paralle Guides and the MFT/3 plus for clamps etc... to work with sheet goods safely and accurately.

Nope.  I got a second 1400mm and the connectors instead; easier to transport and store.  The MFT/3 looks nice, but you can easily make a home-made sacrificial table out of a few 2x3s and some screws and bolts and leave slots to stick some bar clamps through -- a bit heavy perhaps, and certainly not as polished-looking as the MFTs, but still quite usable, and *much* cheaper.

The Festool way is a lot better than man handling a 4 x 8 foot panel  across a Table saw.

Totally.

 

[sancho57]

Thanks for all the replies guys!  I love watching Joe Fusco's video's on YouTube and that's how I found out about Festools.... Too bad he has passed as he seems like a great guy and a great woodworker/teacher.

He was believe me.

We used to chat on his site weekly.

He was a great guy.

 

[Alan m]

i did a google of joe fusco and i see some videos but the website mut be down as all i get is no internet conection ./ did they take it down as a mark of respect. from the few vids i have seen they look great and very helpfull

 

[sancho57]

I posted some in this thread. He's on UTube. joefusco1960

 

[mouppe]

Another great site featuring lots of festool is http://www.woodshopdemos.com/ by John Lucas.

Unfortunately, John Lucas- who was active on the FOG- also passed away last year.

 

[Ted Miller]

If I had one tool to keep in my shop it would be my Table Saw. You can do everything with a table saw.

I have both the TS75 and TS55 and I use them for trimming doors to breaking down sheet goods. I use the TS55 on site and when I am in my shop my table saw does all the work.

I do not use a table saw sled, so if I need crosscuts on long stock, I break out the MFT/3 and TS55...

 

[fdengel]

If I had one tool to keep in my shop it would be my Table Saw. You can do everything with a table saw.

For me it would probably be either a pencil or a tape measure.

I use those far more often than I use any of my saws.

 

[Ted Miller]

If I had one tool to keep in my shop it would be my Table Saw. You can do everything with a table saw.

For me it would probably be either a pencil or a tape measure.

I use those far more often than I use any of my saws.

I don't use a tape measure for much if at all in my shop. Double squares I use all day since you don't need to read the measurement. Job site is a different story, unless I am marking for cabinets, funiture and the like its story sticks.

I gave up pencils years ago when the eyes went, now its just gel pens...