Festool TSV 60 plunge saw with scoring blade

[Hawkeye0001]

New upgraded plunge TS 60 saw ahead featuring a counter rotating scoring blade ahead of the main blade driven by a second motor mounted on the front of the baseplate [huh]

View attachment 1[attachimg=2]View attachment 2[attachimg=1]

 

[six-point socket II]

Just wow.

Kind regards,
Oliver

 

[simonh]

That's pretty cool. A Festool rep told me last year something was coming soon to solve the chip-out on MFC problem.  I didn't expect a full-on scoring blade!

 

[neeleman]

On the background of the first picture I also spotted a CXS 18?

 

[Hawkeye0001]

Yep, just put the pic in an extra thread

 

[GoingMyWay]

I was only able to view the images from my phone so I'm adding the pictures from the Facebook post in case anyone else is having trouble viewing the images:

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[attachimg=2]

[attachimg=3]

Thanks for bringing this new saw to everyone's attention!

 

[woodbutcherbower]

So my new £600 TS60 is less than 3 months old and is already superceded and obsolete. This one incident is enough to make me ditch Festool on a permanent basis. The perfect demonstration of 'how to immediately lose a long-standing and loyal professional user'.

It's been fun - but I'm done. Bye.

 

[Crazyraceguy]

[member=75780]woodbutcherbower[/member], I would surely hope that this new contraption is an "additional unit", option as it were. Everyone wouldn't want all that extra on there. I certainly wouldn't, and I'm patiently waiting for the TS60 to hit here.....corded.

 

[MikeGE]

So my new £600 TS60 is less than 3 months old and is already superceded and obsolete. This one incident is enough to make me ditch Festool on a permanent basis. The perfect demonstration of 'how to immediately lose a long-standing and loyal professional user'.

It's been fun - but I'm done. Bye.

The same thing happened to me with my truck (in my avatar), which I bought new in October 2018.  Who could have predicted that within six months the Ford dealer had a NEW model and apparently sent kill codes out to all older models rendering them obsolete and useless.  I was devastated and could not believe Ford could do this to a long-standing, and up until then, loyal customer.  I'm done with Ford and will find a manufacturer of trucks that will never update them the following year. 

 

[rmhinden]

[member=75780]woodbutcherbower[/member] 

So my new £600 TS60 is less than 3 months old and is already superceded and obsolete. This one incident is enough to make me ditch Festool on a permanent basis. The perfect demonstration of 'how to immediately lose a long-standing and loyal professional user'.

Not sure I follow.    Would prefer they never release new products? 

A track saw with a scoring blade seems like a very specialized tool to me, it's not going to replace the saw you purchased.

Bob

 

[Lincoln]

Wonder why they added it to the 60 and not the 55. Not like you really need that extra depth of cut when cutting sheet goods.
That said, I don't think I'll be able to resist this.

 

[Hawkeye0001]

I'm afraid that's tough luck on your side, but in my opinion while they look siminlar they're actually two very different saws; very much like the T18 and the TID 18 or the TDC and the TPC drill.

For someone who doesn't constantly cut melamine particle board or veneered boards there's simply no point in paying an additional 300 quid (educated guess on my part) for drawbacks like another kilogram of deadweight from a second motor assembly, 1 1/2 times the 'runway' required on the rails, etc.

I'm pretty sure you didn't purchase your TS 60 with the thought that it would easily replace your Felder sliding table saw to cut the above mentioned materials on site from now on.

So my new £600 TS60 is less than 3 months old and is already superceded and obsolete. This one incident is enough to make me ditch Festool on a permanent basis. The perfect demonstration of 'how to immediately lose a long-standing and loyal professional user'.

It's been fun - but I'm done. Bye.

 

[afish]

[member=75780]woodbutcherbower[/member], I would surely hope that this new contraption is an "additional unit", option as it were. Everyone wouldn't want all that extra on there. I certainly wouldn't, and I'm patiently waiting for the TS60 to hit here.....corded.

It does not look like an add on to me, but it does look sweet for cutting melamine and laminated goods.  I dont see it as a replacement for a track saw but more of a secondary saw.  I say bravo to festool for innovating there are lots of different kinds of saws and dont consider there being only one saw that is for everything.

 

[Crazyraceguy]

[member=75780]woodbutcherbower[/member], I would surely hope that this new contraption is an "additional unit", option as it were. Everyone wouldn't want all that extra on there. I certainly wouldn't, and I'm patiently waiting for the TS60 to hit here.....corded.

It does not look like an add on to me, but it does look sweet for cutting melamine and laminated goods.  I dont see it as a replacement for a track saw but more of a secondary saw.  I say bravo to festool for innovating there are lots of different kinds of saws and dont consider there being only one saw that is for everything.

[member=73094]afish[/member] Sorry, I didn't mean "add-on", like "attachment". I meant as and additional tool in the range, so you could still buy the original version. Both would co-exist.
I would think that you would be limited to corded only with that extra motor too?

[member=75780]woodbutcherbower[/member] I understand your frustration though. I have had it happen to me too.
Many years ago, (30?) I bought a Smithy machine (metal lathe/mill combo) It was a significant investment at the time. Every bit of advertising about it claimed all kinds of accuracy numbers to the .0005" etc. When I received it, ever darn dial on it was graduated in mm, except for the tailstock. It is in inches, but only has 1 1/2" of travel. Never felt so cheated by a company. Then a few weeks later a catalog of accessories came in the mail, showing the "new model" with all inch (decimal) markings and an additional 1 1/2" of travel in the tailstock.
Then there was the cordless string-trimmer for my small yard. It had 18v NiCad batteries. Less than a month later, they had a new model with LIon. I was hot over that one too.
They don't advertise this kind of thing because everyone would just wait the extra few weeks and they would be stuck with the older model in inventory that they can't sell.

I think Festool lucked into that with the pandemic. When they brought out the up-dated version of the OF1010, inventory levels were at extreme lows, with many items effectively un-available for a while.
Those older models got snapped up too, and they didn't have to discount them to make them go away.
Plus, I think that every time they announce that an item is about to be discontinued, everybody jumps on them, so maybe they don't have that problem?

You also have where people don't want the up-date. Like the riving knife thing with the TS 55,  or the power-interrupt switch per the European safety standards. That would make a rough go with a router table or a TS in a table saw module. Makes those older models a lot more inviting.

 

[afish]

[member=75780]woodbutcherbower[/member], I would surely hope that this new contraption is an "additional unit", option as it were. Everyone wouldn't want all that extra on there. I certainly wouldn't, and I'm patiently waiting for the TS60 to hit here.....corded.

It does not look like an add on to me, but it does look sweet for cutting melamine and laminated goods.  I dont see it as a replacement for a track saw but more of a secondary saw.  I say bravo to festool for innovating there are lots of different kinds of saws and dont consider there being only one saw that is for everything.

[member=73094]afish[/member] Sorry, I didn't mean "add-on", like "attachment". I meant as and additional tool in the range, so you could still buy the original version. Both would co-exist.
I would think that you would be limited to corded only with that extra motor too?

ahhhh, 10-4.  However, an attachment would be cool too though if someone could pull it off.  Had this been around pre cnc I would have been al over it now not so much. It is cool either way and happy to see festool coming up with unique stuff.  If they could come up with a edgebander to compete with the mafell im all ears.

 

[festoller]

I found this German dealer offering the TSV 60 for €1,160.00, incl. 19% VAT. All specs are listed, but no info on release date.
https://werkzeugstore24.de/festool-vorritzer-tauchsaege-tsv-60-kebq-plus-fs-im-systainer-577743.html

 

[Crazyraceguy]

[member=73094]afish[/member], I'm in total agreement about the innovation aspect of this, but is there really enough of a market for it that will sustain production?
Who is this for? It's cool, but....necessary?
As you said, CNC machines, especially since they have become so much more accessible, have somewhat obscured the need.
Who is actually cutting melamine "by hand", needing perfect edges on both sides?
Production shops certainly aren't, they have two advantages. First, they are getting better results with the CNC in the first place. Second, and most importantly, they are running parts through an edgebander with a pre-mill feature, that removes 1mm from the edge before applying the edgeband. It comes out perfect.

There are guys like me, in those shops, who have track saws, but that's not the use-case I have for it.
I am genuinely curious, who is this saw for? Because it seems to me that the very few who would appreciate and want to use one, are the exact ones who would complain about the price.

 

[peter halle]

I found this German dealer offering the TSV 60 for €1,160.00, incl. 19% VAT. All specs are listed, but no info on release date.
https://werkzeugstore24.de/festool-vorritzer-tauchsaege-tsv-60-kebq-plus-fs-im-systainer-577743.html

Interesting. The price difference between the TS-60 and that model is about 381 euros (about $414) so that will price it into a whole different market than the standard Festool saws.

Need to translate that page and see if the rail length is adjusted for that saw.  EDIT:  Comes with the 1900 rail (75" approx).

Peter

 

[Oldwood]

It will be interesting to see how it works in practice. Anyone who has set up a scoring blade setup on a panel saw will know how finicky they can be.

If the scoring cut is too wide it shows as a open crack on the surface and if it is too narrow then you get chips.

I found about .005" each side looked the best but you do not have any play if something moves a bit.

I use the 2 cut method and that works ok but something that works every time with one pass would be nice.

 

[afish]

[member=73094]afish[/member], I'm in total agreement about the innovation aspect of this, but is there really enough of a market for it that will sustain production?
Who is this for? It's cool, but....necessary?
As you said, CNC machines, especially since they have become so much more accessible, have somewhat obscured the need.
Who is actually cutting melamine "by hand", needing perfect edges on both sides?
Production shops certainly aren't, they have two advantages. First, they are getting better results with the CNC in the first place. Second, and most importantly, they are running parts through an edgebander with a pre-mill feature, that removes 1mm from the edge before applying the edgeband. It comes out perfect.

There are guys like me, in those shops, who have track saws, but that's not the use-case I have for it.
I am genuinely curious, who is this saw for? Because it seems to me that the very few who would appreciate and want to use one, are the exact ones who would complain about the price.

I agree 100% it will have a limited buyer base.  The price will be key. IMO it needs to be right around 1000-1400 max. I think there is a limited market for some that have a need but dont have the space or cash for a full size cnc router, horz panel/beam saw or large edgebanders that have premill. I personally have this problem myself in regards to the space issue for an edgebander. I simply cannot fit any more equipment and any further purchase is going to force me to buy or rent dedicated commercial shop space.  In my area it is crazy high.  Had this been around pre cnc I would have been a buyer as cutting melemine used to drive me crazy as you would always get some chipping no matter what and that used to bug the crap out of my OCD.  However festool will need to figure out a easy alignment solution too as oldwood pointed out its the Achilles heel of pre scoring. so if it isnt addressed its going to be more trouble than its worth.