Festools on site - The system is key

[Kevin Stricker]

I have been using Festools on site for over 5 years, and am only now finally adopting the system whole heartedly. For some reason I always thought I knew better than Festool did, not to mention being a "smarter" consumer.  I focused on value and stubbornly held onto the belief that it was smarter to diversify.  Although I had accumulated quite a nice selection of Festools I still had not integrated my site kit into a cohesive system. 

This used to be OK, as I worked on my own job sites at my own pace.  I could "move in" for a week or two.  I built a Paulk Miter station and workbench, and would even bring a couple extractors when I could.  It sure is nice to have dedicated work stations.

A couple months ago I started sub'ing full time for a busy remodeling company with 30+ jobs on the books all the time.  I am usually at 2-3 different sites per week, sometimes a couple on the same day.  Suddenly my "system" was failing miserably.  I remember throwing a fit one afternoon after re-loading my truck a second time the same day telling myself the Systainer system was not working.  Then I looked over and realized I hadn't even loaded my Systainers in my truck yet!  It was everything else (Rubbermaid totes, table saw, mitersaw, CT, and of course the cables and hoses) that were a complete CF.  I popped up my back seat and stacked the Systainers in a nice row in about 1 minute.  Ever sense then I have been on a mission to develop the "ultimate" trim carpentry setup for my work.

For me the ultimate setup is one that lets me do the majority of my work in the most efficient manner.  I am on a mission to minimize trips to the truck, and maximize my preparedness with the smallest site kit possible.  I would love to hear about any other journeys into the system, as well as see pictures of your site kit. I will post some pictures of my current rolling carnival (for the laughs) and my plans for my "Ultimate" setup as well.  Thanks for reading.

 

[Mickfb]

Shall look forward to the pictures
[emoji3]

 

[sancho57]

There is a Folder already set up for this type of questions, Its the Mobile Workshop folder.  You might want to check it out. This may end up being moved there.

Well, I am not a pro or do alot of site work. But with that being said, I do move tools around a lot working on my house, friends houses etc. I recently (a year ago) moved to europe.
I had a shop of stationary tools. Plus a lot of festools. The festools were the only ones that made the journey. That is other then my kreg jig, delta thicknesser and Milwaukee hammer drill, Fein MM.

I got rid of all my stationary tools. table saws , jointer, drill press, dust collector etc etc...

Since i have bee here I picked up a couple of modules for the CMS the saw module and scroll saw module.

I havent missed my stationary tools at all. I do miss my American 2 car garage dedicated shop. My UK shop is tight. I could of never fit my stationary tools in it.

I can do everything with my festools that I did with my stationary tools. Takes some creativity it it gets done.

 

[Stone Message]

Hi Kevin,

I am sure that you will soon have your "ultimate" setup and we would all like to see it when you have time to show some pictures.

To add to the debate I think that the Festool system approach also allows a huge amount of flexibility so that your ultimate system may be different to mine but they will work for each of us. Also, that flexibility allows the user to adapt to all sorts of changes from different job type, different types of site, different priorities and so on.

Although I rarely go travelling with my tools any more (he says getting ready to do just that this weekend) that same flexibility exists in the workshop. I can choose to cut smaller sheet goods on the MFT3 or on my own work station but both with the TS 55 and CT26. I can move the CMS units around to suit my work flow, swap routers in the CMS-OF as required, use systainers to support long stock and so on and on.

Peter

 

[Kevin Stricker]

Thanks for the replies guys.  I do often check out the mobile workshop section Jobsworth, but I was hoping to share and discuss more of the general idea of a systems approach. I agree Peter it is the flexibility that is really the key element, being able to adapt your tools and workflow to the demands of your current project.

My current struggle is centered on being able to be both adaptable and mobile at the same time.  I set cabinets in a kitchen and three bathrooms last week, and this week hung doors and wrapped a 18' tall column.  I have studied the setups of both the ultra mobile (Dan Rush, H. Gill) as well as the amazing mobile setups of Builder Bob and Tom Bainbridge.  I think I will find my ultimate setup somewhere in between.

In regards to the systems approach, I think it is more about a way of working and less about the tools.  It is the integration of multiple tools into a workflow where things can really become Faster, Easier, Smarter.  Well time to go to work, hope to touch on that idea more later.

 

[semenza]

    A good place to start is getting everything possible into Systainers and Sortainers. Once you have that accomplished you will easily be able to start organizing your transport arrangements. If you're going to dive into the system it will need to happen anyway , so it is an easy place to just get started. Even if the initial specific systainer set ups get changed it will get you going and thinking about how the whole organization , etc. Even after you get set up with the system you will make changes to the specific arrangements as you discover what works out for you.

  I don't work on site all the time and I use my truck for other things too. So I actually load / unload my tools at the shop end as well. I still keep a separate set of all the non-power tools that I need on site to avoid forgetting stuff and to allow the best use of the systainers without needing to fill them every time I go to a site. Plus some of the tools are different than the shop tools due to size etc.

Seth

 

[festooltim]

I subcontract for a remodeling company too. Although I don't just do trim and cabinet work i do everything from framing rooms to demo and reframe bathrooms. I find that some of my frustration comes from when your set up in a room and you have tools and things scattered around on the floor then your looking around for something. I have thought about getting a rolling shelf system to keep things organized on site. Like one of those folding origami shelf things I have seen on the shopping networks. Then put tools back in the systainer and stack together to take back out to the van. So many different situations hard to set for every type of work.

 

[sancho57]

Have you checked out Ron Paulks ultimate work bench? That may help you

 

[Kevin Stricker]

Seth,
  I agree with the systainer comment, that is really the heart of the system approach to me. I recently bought my first Sortainer (5 drawer from Tanos) but knew it was not right for me as soon as I unwrapped it. Too heavy for me without tools, and not enough capacity. I did recently buy a sys toolbox and a sys storage box. I am really liking their integration into the system, and actually exchanged the Sortainer for a couple more.
  I too work from my truck, and empty the tools every weekend for camping and other fun activities. Definitely not ideal, but the current reality with two small kids.  Hopefully in a couple years I will be able to get a dedicated work van.

Hey Tim,
  Although my official title is trim carpenter I end up doing my share of demo, framing, and drywall work too. I think it makes the organization piece even harder, that many more tools to keep track of. I had to laugh regarding your comment about tools ending up scattered around, this was a picture I took as I read that.  [attachthumb=1]
As you can see, clamps and shims are a constant hassle to organize, and getting them in a systainer is a top priority. Upgrading to a Carvex is also on the list.

  I recently bought a sys-storage box and find it easier to put tools away as I use them than my old Veto bag. I have been thinking of building a shelf for my MfT for storage, but maybe a cart could be useful. Not sure the Sysroll is a good option as it is pretty bulky and not sure how it would fit in the truck. My Paulk bench is great for small tool storage, but too big for daily use in my current situation.

 

[Brice Burrell]

I subcontract for a remodeling company too. Although I don't just do trim and cabinet work i do everything from framing rooms to demo and reframe bathrooms. I find that some of my frustration comes from when your set up in a room and you have tools and things scattered around on the floor then your looking around for something. I have thought about getting a rolling shelf system to keep things organized on site. Like one of those folding origami shelf things I have seen on the shopping networks. Then put tools back in the systainer and stack together to take back out to the van. So many different situations hard to set for every type of work.

You might want to check out this video.  I'm not sure I'd adopt his specific organization methods but I found the guy's ideas good food for thought.  I love the idea of being lean and flexible, but it's an elusive concept to get a firm hold of...

 

 

[Brice Burrell]

Seth,
  I agree with the systainer comment, that is really the heart of the system approach to me........

I like Systainers but they aren't perfect.  The one big downside is the limited size.  I picked up a few DeWalt tough boxes a few months back.  They work nicely for big items or when you want to throw a bunch of crap in a tool box and go.

 

[awil66]

I have got to ask. What's the story with the left drawer cabinet being lower than the right? 

 

[curt boyer]

Kevin, you sound like your in the same place I was two years ago. We were working on big projects and it was easy to set up shop on the job over the course of the job. Then I started working for several contractors as well as my jobs. I was doing jobs where the duration of the job was days and weeks as opposed to months. Going to storage every night to load and unload the pickup for the next days work got old real quick.

I had my truck very organized with 25 systainers, tablesaw, mitersaw, thickness planer, small jointer, compressor, and all the fasteners and materials for a days work. I spent a lot of time unloading and setting up all the tools for the days work, then at the end of the day it all had to go back to the truck. I spent so much time moving tools and materials I was losing too much working time during the day only to repeat the process the next day.

I watched Ron Paulk's mobile workshop YouTube video and I knew what I wanted for a new work truck and a new lean working system. I've had my truck for 16 months now and it has totally changed the way I work and the way I'm perceived by my clients and other contractors I sub for. I was glueing up oak risers and treads today so they could be installed before the flooring subs start installing new oak flooring. I stayed in the truck and milled all the treads, risers, transitions, and thresholds while two other carpenters were installing.

I've built small builtins, cabinets, and Mouldings in the truck so far. At the end of the day I put the tools away in the truck unplug the air hose and power cord close the door and I'm gone. I still set up tools where the work is when possible. It's nice to run out to the truck if you need to rip a board or drill a steel plate. I got rid of 90 % of my systainers for the new truck, they took up too much room in the truck and on the job. I've kept systainers for fasteners, epoxy kit, tile tools, masonry tools, first aid, and the Frankentainer. Removing the tools from the boxes makes them accessible and you can put more tools in a small space.

I'm not saying this is the best setup for everyone but I love it! I get a lot of positive comments from homeowners, contractors, and people just passing by. I have gotten several jobs and recommendations from people who have seen the truck. This has been a nice surprise! I'll post some current pictures tomorrow.
Good Luck!
Curt

 

[curt boyer]

Here is some more pictures of my truck as it is. The last picture is my friends 12' Spartan body truck.
Cheers
Curt

 

[Bob Gerritsen]

Hi Kevin,

What a very interesting topic. For some reason it is something that occupies my mind a lot. I'm a pro cabinetmaker and after having tried out several systems and methods of work, right now I am aiming at optimizing the following workflow:

- More than anything else I put a lot of time in starting of right. I take measures and check for plumb using lasers to get the room into Sketchup as accurate as I can. Typically this might take 1 to 3 hours depending on the scale. Having an accurate 3d in the computer gives you all the info you need to get the best design. The basis of my method is that planning is everything and that starts right here.
- Back at home or office I than work on the design. The aim here is to get something (that appeals to the client obviously but also can be produced for the most part in the shop while remaining 100% bespoke. My goal is to keep installing on site to an absolute minimum, first of because working on site is less effective (in my view) but secondly because clients appreciate it so much.
- As soon as the design is done, I order all the pieces of sheet material already cut to size by cnc (surprisingly affordable) and they are delivered on pallets at my shop roughly a week later. With a well made Sketchup drawing, generating the cutlist in Excel and transferring that list to my suppliers Excel sheet takes about 10 minutes.

In the shop I have most tools ready to go. My aim here is to have all the tools needed that can get A level quality but I'm not aiming at industry quality as that is way too expensive. For instance: I find Hammer is fine where upgrading to Felder or even higher wouldn't pay off for a one man shop. The Hammers can be tweaked to give excellent results for small projects.
As soon as I have a couple of cubic meters of solid wood to handle, I go to a friends workshop who has bigger machines (but is less flexible in his abbilities). So for me there is a difference in the scale of the work with regards to which tools I will use for that work. My shop should be able to do everything on a small scale, if the scale gets bigger I go somewhere else. This approach comes back with my mobile workshop.

If the shop work is done, the project is stacked on pallets and using a manual lift I can quickly lift these in the van on installation day.

For the mobile shop/van I go with the 90% logic. The van contains all the tools for 90%(or maybe 95%) of the jobs, the remaining 10% require me to come back another time with dedicated tools. I've tried different methods, this method saves so much time as it keeps the setting up and packing up to a minimum.:

- For a typical small job or installation I have a flexible setup that aims at remaining small. Depending on the work I select from: a small toolbox with handtools, an MFT 800, c12 with screws, maybe a battery powered Protool with drills to drill holes in whatever and the Mafell KS300 for cutting (excellent in this setup), my systainer with lasers and measuring tools and mini vac. This either goes on a small dolly or I walk twice/thrice depending on the situation. Walking more that that usually means something either went wrong or I've not stuck to my system. In any case, those are exceptions, that happens less and less.
- In the van I furthermore have the usual Fein, jigsaw, heavy hammering concrete drill levels etc.
- The goal, again, is to plan things as good as I can and to do things on site as quick as possible with a well thought out set of tools that will remain in the van no matter what.
- If there are tools I also use in the shop, I will have that tool twice and won't have to schlepp it to and from with the risk of fogetting it at some point. Deciding to bite the bullit and buy things double has saved my butt so many times already it is very much worth it.

Setting and packing up usualy takes 10 minutes, I'm quite happy with that at the moment. Having tried a setup with using only two or three (heavy) stackable toolboxes containing everything, I'm back to systainers as these allow for a more flexible and dedicated approach.

I find I'm not limited to Festools and appreciate their systems approach but find it is quite possible and surprisingly easy to addept other brands to that system. Besides, their system is not my system. Besides, I find at times the Festool system gets a bit too much praise, I think it is important to keep your eyes on the ball, other brands can really do some things better that Festools without any real sacrifice. Like all brands, it is unlikely all products are the best pick for your way or working, Festool is no exception. I think 80% of my tools are Festool, mostly because they are the best tools for that particular job but I wouldn't want to miss the remaining 20% of my tools or trade them for Festools.

So to summarize I think for onsite work I go for a well thought out and small setup that does most jobs but not all jobs to save a lot of time setting up, keeping in mind here that I tend to keep onsite to a minimum. For those jobs that I cannot finish with my small van setup, I find these are jobs that because of scale or complexity require me to come back another day anyway so usually the client won't even notice.

Looking forward to a good long thread here!

Thanks, Bob.

 

[wrightwoodwork]

That sounds like a really good way of working

 

[Guilliaume woodworks]

Obviously a van is the best option, but a dedicated work van has other issues( security,storage, maintenance ,insurance,etc.) . Also most residential jobsites I've worked at,there is no room to get large van or any parking spots within two blocks of job.
What's your current set up like.? Does your pick up have a shell, or lid.? Long or short bed? Have you built any type of rack or pull out? Pics of set up?
I am in the same boat you are, and it not great, but I'm making it work with a couple ideas. Big bonus with pick up is I still park safely in my garage at night. It barely fits but I sure sleep better knowing my tools are not gonna get ripped off. I had a trailer stolen with my tools once.

 

[duburban]

this conversation is dear to my heart. I work out of trucks, a tundra now, short bed frontier before that. The systainer approach is great, but at times way too consuming of space. I can certainly carry more tools in my truck because of them but the stacking ensures that i have to empty the truck fully and access the systainer outside.

My next vehicle will be a savanah style gmc/chevy and I will rack it out with drawer slides etc.

 

[Kevin Stricker]

Thanks for all the great responses.  Curt, your box van setup is pretty amazing!  I like the idea of a mobile workshop, Ron Paulk is a really smart guy and his setups show it.  I really like how you tucked your drill press in with your Kapex, and got a full sized dust collector in there.  Are you running 4" hard pipe to the table saw and planer?

Bob you also sound like you have your systems dialed.  Would love to see some pics if you have the time.  The KSS300 sounds like an amazing saw, I really wish Mafell had a bigger presence here in the states.  How many Systainers are usually in your site kit?

My current setup is a '13 Tundra with a 6.5' bed and an A.R.E. Topper.  I have plans for a bed box but want to purchase a bedslide first and build around that. 

When I wrote this post it was from a response I had began to another carpenter who was first starting out with Festools.  My message was to first focus on the most important tools and storage systems that can benefit you on a daily basis.  I think that a lot of people buy tools as they can find a use for them in their business.  This approach is fine(and what I did), but if you want to have the greatest impact to your productivity you should start with the core tools and work from there.  Buy the tools you are going to use on  a daily basis first, and integrate a system for their rapid deployment. 

Obviously everyone has a different "ultimate" setup, but I think most tradesmen would agree that minimal set up and clean up time is ideal.  Also, having an organized workspace and vehicle is going to make you more productive.  Look forward to hearing about other tradesman's mobile and site setups.

 

[duburban]

The truck bed works really well for a "carpenter" but without a trailer its tough on a tool addict. The bed slides do look  better but I worry how mch space is lost on the edges and in height as well.