First festool order...guidance needed

[shaneymack]

Hi All,

I Read this site often but am a first time poster. So much great info here!
I am getting back into woodworking after a 4 year hiatus. For some reason, i thought i would not have time for woodworking in my life anymore when my wife was pregnant with our second child. I went ahead and sold everything and now am kicking myself. Now with the forth child in the oven, my wife and i both decided i should have a shop....4 kids need lots of furniture! Lol
So i just wanted to list the stuff i was planning on oredering this week with a few questions. Any comments or direction from all you experienced festoolers would be appreciated!
1. Kapex ks120.
2. Ug stand
3. Ts55 req plus
4. Ct 26
5. Extra 55" guide rail
6. 2 clamps
7. 1 guide rail connector
8. 1 deflector for guide rail
9. Cxs drill kit
10. Idustrial vacuum kit
11. Centrotec installers kit

Here are some corresponding questions;

1. Kapex wont leave my shop much at all... Would i be better off with the mft kapex with ug extensions? By the look of the ug it seems my feet would hit the wheel or bar while making cuts? I have big feet....
Is mft more stable than the ug?

2. Is it better to get the extra 55" rail to add to included 55" rail or should i just get the longer rail?

3. Is the industrial vacuum kit the best for a woodworking shop? (Sucks that it doesnt come with systainer but price is good)

4. Seems like centrotec installers kits are sold out everywhere except where im getting it. Is this due to it being no longer available and i should jump on it or do you think they will be coming out with bigger and better?

5. Is there any play in  festool pricing? Im spending quite a bit of money and doesnt seem like there is any wiggle room. Really would like to get the bit set a little bit cheaper seeing as its 515$!!

Any and all answers or comments are welcome and helpful as festool is all new to me.

Thanks,
Shane

 

[copcarcollector]

Welcome to the FOG!

The Installers kits were brought to the US market about a year ago, they are not a normally stocked item, and as you have found, most dealers have sold out. I would get it now, you never know what a dealer has left, or where you might find another one. Festool seems to make this type of set often, but they are not always available here in the USA.

I got my Centrotec kit from overseas when they were not available here in the USA, and have added several other bits and parts to it. Honestly, there is a lot of stuff in the kit I have yet to use, or don't think I will use... so if you just need a few driver bits or drill bits, it may be a better choice to buy those individually vs buying the entire thing.

If you get the additional 55" rail, get the so called "holey" rail (496939), or see if your dealer will swap the rails out when you get the track saw. The 55" holey rail is the same price as the standard 55" rail, and may be useful to you down the line for shelf pins and hinges on cabinets (LR32 system)

You can save 10% on the CT26 if you buy a package deal with the track saw and vac at the same time. Ask your dealer. The only other way I know to 'save' money is to buy from an out of state dealer, that way you are not subject to sales tax, and most dealers offer free shipping.

And finally, the Kapex promotion starts Feb 1, so you can save a bit more cash on the saw and accessories.

Have fun with your new tools!

 

[Wooden Skye]

[welcome]

I can't speak for everything on your list, but will provide advise where I can.  The first thing is if you are able to store the longer rail, I would go with that.  If you do decide on joining rails, you need 2 guide rail connectors.  I would also check out the Betterley connector, great accessory in my opinion.  I would get the Holey rail for the second rail, it is the same price, and if you add the lr32 then you will have the rail.  If you go with the longer rail, I would still swap the standard rail with the Holey rail.  The 3000 rail would be awkward to crosscut a sheet of ply. Assuming you are in the USA, there is no flexibility in pricing except for the package deals when buying tool and vac.  I would get 4 of the quick clamps.  The CXS, get the set for the extra chucks. 

Otherwise, nice shopping list.

 

[tbellemare]

Based on your list, the CT 26 should be discounted by 10%, or $62.50.

If you've found a Centrotec Installer's Kit and want one, grab it. They are long gone for now. Festool USA only offers them periodically...

You've gotten good advice already on swapping out a guide rail for the LR 32 version.

The other thing you might consider is the Tradesman Cleaning Kit as it comes with a 36mm hose, which will help significantly with the KAPEX dust extraction.

Also, if you want to join two rails, you'll want two of the connectors.

Tom

 

[Holzhacker]

- Combine the 55 and vac into a package deal for savings
- since the Kapex won't leave the shop for get the UG stand and/or wings; I would either get the Kapex mft or use the saved money to buy materials to use my new tools to build my own custom Kapex station
- definitely at least 4 clamps

 

[semenza]

Hi Shane,

  Welcome to the forum!  [smile]

          Lots of good advice above. I suggest a 75" rail for the second one. It is a nicer length for cross cuts on sheet goods and adds versatility compared to a second 55".

Seth

 

[dltflt]

As everyone has said, get the 55" holy rail with your saw so when you buy a router and LR2 you will have the rail.  The 75" rail is a great idea and if can afford the 118" also you would be set.  Definitely get the tradesman kit so you have the 36mm hose for the saws.I have the MFT/Kapex in my shop and love it.  It is small enough that I have moved it to where I'm working yet still stable.  have fun shopping.

 

[Staniam]

Even though I don't have a Kapex, I'd imagine the Kapex MFT would be the better rout since you won't be moving it out of your shop much if at all. If you do end up moving it then it wouldn't be too difficult to more the MFT and Kapex in those off situations.

You definitely need two rail connectors and you may want to take a look at the Makita guide rail connectors. People on here seem to really recommend them over the Festool ones.

You'll definitely want to buy the TS with the CT to get the 10% discount which you can add to the upcoming 10% discount on the Kapex and free up around $200. Now, couple those savings with the savings from grabbing the Kapex MFT instead of the UG stand which would be $372 during this upcoming sale and you have a grand total of $572 extra to play with.

With that $572 you've got some great possibilities. You can grab the T15 set or C15 set as a larger compliment to the awesome CXS. You can grab a Festool router in the OF 1400 and some bits or you can get the OF 1010 with bits and accessories.

Or, and wait for it........ You can put that nearly $600 in savings towards a Domino!!!

Dun dun dunnnnnn.

 

[getyourbone]

Take it for what it's worth.

space constraints?

1. Kapex ks120.
2. Ug stand     MFT plus some dogs
3. Ts55 req plus
4. Ct 26
5. Extra 55" guide rail    FS300
6. 2 clamps    2 - ratcheting clamps 2 - Clamping elements (1 pack)
7. 1 guide rail connector    ???  only used mine once in 7 or 8 years.  Don't likely need if you go with a long rail.
8. 1 deflector for guide rail    ???  I Rarely use it 
9. Cxs drill kit    - I Would love to have but  can't justify.
10. Idustrial vacuum kit
11. Centrotec installers kit

Hmmm...I think I might go for something like a m12 drill/driver option and put the cxs money towards router/lr32 setup or domino?  Put the money where Festool really shines.

I just think yer trying to get away from the chaos.

Enjoy!

 

[copcarcollector]

Or, and wait for it........ You can put that nearly $600 in savings towards a Domino!!!

Dun dun dunnnnnn.

[laughing] ;D [big grin] Hilarious!  (But a great idea--)

 

[schtumpig]

Hey shaneymack Welcome!!!  [smile]

I am much like you, my wife gave me the green light to build a shop and I have basically no woodworking tools so here is what I have learned.

5. Is there any play in  festool pricing?

Yes. Kinda. Here is what I have done to save some green $ on the green tools. I look for tools on Amazon Warehouse Deals. They usually discount them 10-20%. These are basically open box returns. I have a Sallie Mae Master Card that gives me 5% cash back on eligible book purchases. Well they consider Amazon a book store so that adds another 5% off. I tend to buy a lot of small parts, clamps, stops, bags, accessories on Amazon Warehouse. And yes Festool honors Amazon Warehouse as new unused tools with a full warranty (I asked Festool). I also watch Craigslist and I bought my CT-26 and an MFT/3 on there. Also there are promotional deals like the one on the Kapex (10% off) going on right now. I bought the Kapex with the Kapex MFT Stand and saved an additional $80 off the package plus the 10% discount on Kapex items. And of course there is the FOG classifieds here and also ebay, but ebay is way to overpriced I have found.

1. Kapex wont leave my shop much at all... Would i be better off with the mft kapex with ug extensions? By the look of the ug it seems my feet would hit the wheel or bar while making cuts? I have big feet....
Is mft more stable than the ug?

Here is what I did. I have looked and used both the Kapex on a UG stand and the MFT/Kapex stand. I felt the MFT/Kapex was less wobbly. It is nothing like a true purpose built miter table which I have also used and is rock solid. I was also considering a DeWalt stand but I like being able to use the MFT/3 as an out feed table and the MFT/Kapex was made for that. With the additional $80 discount on the Kapex + MFT/Kapex stand I ended up with a new MFT/Kapex stand for $279. So that made my decisions simpler. And since like you I don't plan on moving it that much I don't really need the mobility of the UG stand. Now the UG extensions is another thing I have pondered. I like that they fit the Kapex perfectly and the exta pull out extensions are cool... but... I don't like that they lack a t-slot clamping channel in them like the Crown Stops (494369) have which is super useful when you need to cut crown and need a fixed stop. So I am looking at the Multiblades sawhelper bracket (link) that costs $89.50 for two brackets and will let me make my own extensions for the Kapex. I am also thinking about making some more stable bases out of 8020 T-Slot framing that I can fold up the MFT legs and put them on-top when they are in the shop. Then when I need to use the tables outside the shop I can just fold down the legs and set up wherever.

Good luck amigo...
Alex

 

[Stone Message]

I would change the priorities slightly by removing the Centrotec kit for now (it is good though), build your own Kapex station and put the Domino 500 on the list. The Domino will give you a huge boost in productivity and work quality and also make it easier to impress the family. You can add the Centrotec kit later. Remember, you can use your legacy bits in the CXS with no problem at all.

You also need a sander and the Rotex 90 gives you three sanders in one. It was my first Festool sander and once I bought it I was able to give away the four (non Festool) sanders that I had in the workshop.

Peter

 

[sancho57]

First  [welcome] to FOG

As you can tell everyone has opinions here's mine.

Festool is a system. You buy what you need to create your own kit. What I'm going to tell some may say is blasphemy.

I say since your starting out:
Lose the Kapex for right now. You can do everything you need with the ts55 and MFT.it will take more time and effort to cross cut but your saving a bunch of shekels right off the top.
Forget the installers kit.
Buy a cheap drill to get Ya started.
Put the money you saved by not getting the Kapex etc put it towards a router. The 1010 is a great little router.
You'll also need various clamps for the MFT.
I suggest getting the ro90  with a variety of sandpaper. Tom and Bob can put a nice systainer together with a good sandpaper kit.

Also as some one said get 2 1400 holy rails with connectors.
I buy for need and versatility not want.
As you get more experienced with the system you can start picking up other things you decide you need ( Kapex, domino, OF 2200, CMS etc)
It will take a while to figure out what you need to buy for the type of woodworking you'll be doing. It took me about 5 years to figure it out and build the kit I got now.
Slow down and buy items you need and will use .
So you won't end selling them cuz you don't use them and want to get something else.
Pace makes the race

 

[tiralie]

5. Is there any play in  festool pricing? Im spending quite a bit of money and doesnt seem like there is any wiggle room. Really would like to get the bit set a little bit cheaper seeing as its 515$!!

Shane:
Buy from a Canadian dealer.
I am serious.
Your US dollar can buy 27% or save 27% here than if you buy the same products in the US.
Even with shipping and or duty you are still gonna save.
Tim

 

[rvieceli]

While there is lots of advice on what you should buy, you really haven't given us enough information to make good suggestions.

The biggest question is what do YOU anticipate using the tools for?

Suggestions should be based on what you need the tools to do. Woodworking encompasses a wide array of processes. Are you going to be building stuff based around sheet goods? Will you need to process rough cut wood to final shape?

Are you routinely going to break down sheets of plywood or straight line cut lengths eight feet or more? If yes then a 3000mm rail would be a good choice if you can store it.

There is no sander on your list. Most projects will need to be sanded. Festool makes wonderful sanders that pair excellently with the dust extractors. There is always a heated debate on which sander to get. Everyone has their favorites. I like my ETS150 and the RS2.

If you are going to be building cabinets and want adjustable shelving, then a router and the LR32 system might be a good choice.

So let us know what you might be doing.

 

[Birdhunter]

I have a Kapex and it is one of my most used tools. It is on an UG stand although I seldom move it, but, when I need to move it, the UG stand is a great asset.

I've got 4 Festool drills including the CSX. I love using it, but if I had to keep just one, I'd keep the T18. The kit idea is worth the money.

I didn't buy the Centrotec Installer's Kit. Instead, I've just bought the bits I need as I needed them.

I've had to pay list price for every Festool item I've bought.

I strongly suggest you add a Domino to your list. It totally changes joinery. The Domino 500 for small to medium work and the Domino 700 for BIG projects. The accessory kit with the extra cutters and the assortment of tenons is a very good idea.

 

[Throwback7r]

Don't get the MFT or the UG cart for your Kapex if your just going to leave it in once place. Take that money and get a domino and build your self a bench for the Kapex as your first use of the tools.

Also, get a Carvex or just a regular MFT it will comes with a rail, smaller one, and the deflector that you want, I find the deflector is kinda not worth it and would not buy it if it was not included with the MFT.

 

[shaneymack]

Whoa!! So much great info guys thanks so much! I will try and give a little more info /background to help out.
By trade am a journeyman carpenter but my role these days is construction superintendent.  I have pretty much every tool you could need to do carpentry...10" bosch scms, 12" dewalt, couple compressors, nail guns of all calibers,  bosch cordless tools, makita cordless tool kit, stanley cordless tool, bosch contractor table saw, bunch of circular saws, biscuit joiner, porter cable sander, metabo 5" sander, jigsaw and on and on....
This is the list of tools that are on order for the new shop;
Sawstop 3h pro 52"
Powermatic 15hh planer
Powermatic pj882hh jointer
Supermax 1938 drum sander
Languna lt18 3000 bandsaw
Powermatic 719t mortiser
Oneida 3hp v system
General/excalibur cast iron top router table with porter cable 3-1/4 hp router

I am in Montreal qc, Canada so i am paying waaaaay more than what most of you are paying for this stuff plus 15% sales tax!! So sad
So i want to separate my precious shop tools from jobsite tools. Hence, the doubling, tripling up on certain things...
The reason i think domino wont see much use is that i would much prefer using mortise and tenon joints.  Just a preference.  I love taking the time to do them and with the 1500$ mortiser i am getting it should make it a pleasure I really have nothing against a domino, but for me personally, it takes away a bit of the "fine furniture" aspect. Now this is very subjective and personal, and there are some guys that would be againt the mortiser and think i should cut them by hand....i am not that hardcore but i do only cut dovetails by hand cause I find it very enjoyable. 
Most of my woodworking will be 100% wood. Impossible to not run into sheet goods from time to time and i hate stuggling with 4x8 stock on a table saw hence the ts55.
Now getting the drum sander is the reason i was not getting a sander right away. I really want a ro90!! I was going to buy it right away but decided to go with the csx thinking it would get more use right away as my designated shop dril? I really cant afford both right now....my budget was originally 15k and i am pushing 31k now.....wooops. I thank God for a very supportive wife!
Do you think i should get the sander instead of the drill right off the bat?
I dont have a workbench amd was planning on building one that why i wasnt buying an mft3 and it doesnt seem like it would be very good as a woodworking workshop bench... am i wrong?
Is the 106" rail good enough for ripping 4x8? Why would i pay extra for the 118"?
Not sure i would ever pay 500$ for the lr32. I used to use a shop made jig with a bit with depth stop. Very fast, very cheap. Maybe i am missing something with the lr32? Just seems like a bit of a waste of money...
I wasnt planning on getting a plunge router right away because of the router table amd being able to take the router off if needed for free hand stuff.
I hope this is enough backround to give you a better picture of my situation.
Again, thank you so much for helping me!!!!

 

[shaneymack]

I would change the priorities slightly by removing the Centrotec kit for now (it is good though), build your own Kapex station and put the Domino 500 on the list. The Domino will give you a huge boost in productivity and work quality and also make it easier to impress the family. You can add the Centrotec kit later. Remember, you can use your legacy bits in the CXS with no problem at all.

You also need a sander and the Rotex 90 gives you three sanders in one. It was my first Festool sander and once I bought it I was able to give away the four (non Festool) sanders that I had in the workshop.

Peter

Thank you Peter for the mitre saw station plans! I will look them over. [emoji1]

 

[shaneymack]

Whoa!! So much great info guys thanks so much! I will try and give a little more info /background to help out.
By trade am a journeyman carpenter but my role these days is construction superintendent.  I have pretty much every tool you could need to do carpentry...10" bosch scms, 12" dewalt, couple compressors, nail guns of all calibers,  bosch cordless tools, makita cordless tool kit, stanley cordless tool, bosch contractor table saw, bunch of circular saws, biscuit joiner, porter cable sander, metabo 5" sander, jigsaw and on and on....
This is the list of tools that are on order for the new shop;
Sawstop 3h pro 52"
Powermatic 15hh planer
Powermatic pj882hh jointer
Supermax 1938 drum sander
Languna lt18 3000 bandsaw
Powermatic 719t mortiser
Oneida 3hp v system
General/excalibur cast iron top router table with porter cable 3-1/4 hp router

I am in Montreal qc, Canada so i am paying waaaaay more than what most of you are paying for this stuff plus 15% sales tax!! So sad
So i want to separate my precious shop tools from jobsite tools. Hence, the doubling, tripling up on certain things...
The reason i think domino wont see much use is that i would much prefer using mortise and tenon joints.  Just a preference.  I love taking the time to do them and with the 1500$ mortiser i am getting it should make it a pleasure I really have nothing against a domino, but for me personally, it takes away a bit of the "fine furniture" aspect. Now this is very subjective and personal, and there are some guys that would be againt the mortiser and think i should cut them by hand....i am not that hardcore but i do only cut dovetails by hand cause I find it very enjoyable. 
Most of my woodworking will be 100% wood. Impossible to not run into sheet goods from time to time and i hate stuggling with 4x8 stock on a table saw hence the ts55.
Now getting the drum sander is the reason i was not getting a sander right away. I really want a ro90!! I was going to buy it right away but decided to go with the csx thinking it would get more use right away as my designated shop dril? I really cant afford both right now....my budget was originally 15k and i am pushing 31k now.....wooops. I thank God for a very supportive wife!
Do you think i should get the sander instead of the drill right off the bat?
I dont have a workbench amd was planning on building one that why i wasnt buying an mft3 and it doesnt seem like it would be very good as a woodworking workshop bench... am i wrong?
Is the 106" rail good enough for ripping 4x8? Why would i pay extra for the 118"?
Not sure i would ever pay 500$ for the lr32. I used to use a shop made jig with a bit with depth stop. Very fast, very cheap. Maybe i am missing something with the lr32? Just seems like a bit of a waste of money...
I wasnt planning on getting a plunge router right away because of the router table amd being able to take the router off if needed for free hand stuff.
I hope this is enough backround to give you a better picture of my situation.
Again, thank you so much for helping me!!!!

....hope it didn't come across like i was dissing the domino in my post. Definitely not. I think its awesome and could see myself using it for certain things, its just my preference is old school mortise and tenons.

Any info on my previous post would be appreciated! Ordering my stuff tomorrow morning! Cant wait!