First Router 1400 or 2200?

[DynaGlide]

>  failsafe centering of template guide bushings

What exactly is this? I'm totally new to routers.

Routers freehand are unwieldy. So you use edge guides, track guides, guide bushings and bearings to guide them. The guide bushing is something you put into the routers base and the guide bushing follows a template (think dovetail jig, or a custom template you made yourself to do a mortise for an electrical box, or a door hinge, or whatever you need an accurate size rectangle or other shape). The 1400 and the 2200 have snap in guide bushings. This mechanism is not adjustable. If the router bit is not centered in the guide bushing then it isn't too useful in some situations. On most routers you can adjust the guide bushing to center it to the router bit. The OF 1010 allows for this. The OF 1400 and OF 2200 do not.

I think since you don't have experience with a router I'm going to default to suggesting you get a good cheap one to learn on before you go spending the big bucks. It's too easy to buy the nicest one available when you don't need or even want it for what it'll be used for. If all you're doing are roundovers then it would be extreme overkill to spend $500 and up on a router.

 

[Cheese]

>  failsafe centering of template guide bushings
What exactly is this? I'm totally new to routers.

This is a photo of the 30 mm template guide for the 1010 on the left and the 1400 on the right. On the far left is a template centering tool.

The 1400 version on the right, is held into the router with a pair of spring latches that hold onto the small downward legs. Where the center of the template guide locates itself in relation to the center of the router collet is a crap shoot. It lands where it lands.

The 1010 version on the left is held into place by 2 small screws and thus allows for some slight adjustment. The template centering tool is placed in the collet and then the cone of the tool is slowly brought into contact with the template guide thus aligning the collet
center and the template center. The screws are then snugged down and these two items are now coplanar.

[attachimg=1]

Another issue with the 1400 & 2200 routers is that because the template guide is held in place with spring pressure only, if there is some side load applied to the template guide, it will move a small and differing amount in all directions. This can really become an issue if you're using a template to machine out a round hole...think MFT tops. The routed holes can become egg shaped.

This photo shows the 1400 template being pushed UP and the indicator is zeroed out.

[attachimg=2]

The template is now being pushed DOWN and you can see .008" of movement.

[attachimg=3]

Now we rotate the router 90º, and we again push the template UP and zero out the indicator.

[attachimg=4]

The template is now again being pushed DOWN and you can see .003" of movement.

[attachimg=5]

So as you move the router in a circular motion and depending upon the side load generated, the router bit is constantly moving in a wonky manner which can produce holes that unfortunately look like this.

[attachimg=6]

 

[DynaGlide]

[member=44099]Cheese[/member] Thank you for the detailed photos and explanation. Another reason to use the LR32 system for MFT holes.

 

[RKA]

While this is certainly true, The 1400 isn't really all that great for router tables other than Festool's which is gonna run $1500+  Better options exist for dedicated router tables - or - even when you'll be removing the motor for bigger hand held operations.

Sorry, I wasn’t clear.  A table and large router are an inevitability in my mind.  So another handheld router that can also use 1/2” bits will be useful.  In terms of using a single router in the table and handheld...obviously possible, he can decide whether he wants to.  If he wants to buy a single router for both purposes, I would agree, get another brand commonly supported by the lifts. 

One of the largest draws to Festool routers for me was the dust collection.  Nothing else offered above the deck, below the deck and edge guide duct collection options out of the box.  I don’t know if that’s still true?

 

[HowardH]

FWIW, I have the 1400 and 2200.  I like using 1/2 shank bits so the 1010 is out.  The 2200 is mounted for the most part permanently in a CMS GE and the 1400 I like to use for doing dovetails using a SuperJig.  Another thing I discovered in the superjig that the e-bush won't fit into the 2200 without another accessory where it fits perfectly into the copy ring on the 1400.  I only got the 2200 because I wanted the HP available that would work great in my CMS plus I got a really great deal (I can't say how  :-X).  Both are fabulous routers, you can't go wrong. 

 

[HowardH]

>  failsafe centering of template guide bushings

What exactly is this? I'm totally new to routers.

If all you're doing are roundovers then it would be extreme overkill to spend $500 and up on a router.

so what's not the fun in that? Spending big bucks on tools is what it's all about.  Bragging rights!  ;D

 

[xedos]

One of the largest draws to Festool routers for me was the dust collection.  Nothing else offered above the deck, below the deck and edge guide duct collection options out of the box.  I don’t know if that’s still true?

The pc 89x and dewalt 618 have dust collection out of the box, as do all Triton routers since the get go.  The Bosch routers don't include dust collection , but the accessories top and bottom are readily available for $20 or less.

The discontinued pc7529 and 8529 had onboard dust collection that is pretty darn good too.  Those predated the 1400 by a bit also .  Bottom collection was offered , but hard to come by.

Thing is though, I think the smaller festool ones are better at hose management. Not a deal breaker, but if we're nit pickin.

 

[Birdhunter]

I own all of the Festool routers and think they are all excellent.

However, in your situation, I would buy something like a DeWalt and use the savings for something truly unique like a Domino.

 

[Chris Cianci]

I can’t  argue against any of the above suggestions......To take another path, Many woodworkers end up w 5 or 6 handheld routers perhaps you could pick up a cheap used router and see how often you use it depending on your projects. Another approach into your original question is that often Building contractors buy routers and basic router tables for one job and never use them again, and they will part with them very cheaply. I bought a router table including the router for $30 ....After seeing the benefits of handheld and a table I now own 4 Festool routers and the Festool router table. What I stated above is very inexpensive research on your part that is specific to “your “ work style and project interests  before you go out and get the high end Festool router.
Good luck !

 

[Alanbach]

[member=65062]DynaGlide[/member] - In your reply to cheese you referenced “another reason to use the LR32 for MFT holes”. Would you mind explaining a little further for me? I just bought a used LR32 and an OF 1010 which is my first FT router. I assume you say this because in the LR32 system you would bore a 20mm hole with a 20mm router bit and would not have to worry about staying perfectly true while routing around a guided circle with a smaller bit? TIA

 

[DynaGlide]

[member=65062]DynaGlide[/member] - In your reply to cheese you referenced “another reason to use the LR32 for MFT holes”. Would you mind explaining a little further for me? I just bought a used LR32 and an OF 1010 which is my first FT router. I assume you say this because in the LR32 system you would bore a 20mm hole with a 20mm router bit and would not have to worry about staying perfectly true while routing around a guided circle with a smaller bit? TIA

Yes that is correct

[member=66185]Alanbach[/member] https://www.festoolownersgroup.com/other-tools-accessories/mft-hole-jigs/msg560211/#msg560211

 

[Alanbach]

[member=65062]DynaGlide[/member] - Thank you!

 

[Alanbach]

[member=65062]DynaGlide[/member] - Sorry but I forgot to ask one more question. Do you think that my OF1010 will spin the Festool 20mm boring bit through MDF effectively and without burning up the router? I have not used many router bits that are smaller than 1/2” shafts in quite some time and I have never used what is basically a Forster bit in a router before. Enough power to do the job?

 

[DynaGlide]

[member=65062]DynaGlide[/member] - Sorry but I forgot to ask one more question. Do you think that my OF1010 will spin the Festool 20mm boring bit through MDF effectively and without burning up the router? I have not used many router bits that are smaller than 1/2” shafts in quite some time and I have never used what is basically a Forster bit in a router before. Enough power to do the job?

I don't own the 1010 but if it can spin the 35mm hinge bit then I would think 20mm should be no problem

 

[Birdhunter]

I would be wary of spinning a 20mm cutter on a 1/4" shaft. If I tried that, I'd take very light cuts.

If the cutter were to separate from the shaft, you have a very dangerous high speed spinning projectile going somewhere very fast.

There is a good reason that large router cutters are one 1/2" shafts.

 

[DynaGlide]

I would be wary of spinning a 20mm cutter on a 1/4" shaft. If I tried that, I'd take very light cuts.

If the cutter were to separate from the shaft, you have a very dangerous high speed spinning projectile going somewhere very fast.

There is a good reason that large router cutters are one 1/2" shafts.

It isn't 1/4" it's 8mm.

https://www.festoolproducts.com/festool-491072-euro-hinge-boring-bit-hw-20mm.html

 

[Alanbach]

[member=15289]Birdhunter[/member] [member=65062]DynaGlide[/member] -This is exactly why I asked the question. I was surprised that FT made both bits with the smaller 8mm shaft. Seems like a lot of bit. Also surprised that given that I read everywhere how great the 1010 is with the LR32. I understand that the big use is drilling 5mm holes for shelf pins but still...

 

[xedos]

[member=15289]Birdhunter[/member] [member=65062]DynaGlide[/member] -This is exactly why I asked the question. I was surprised that FT made both bits with the smaller 8mm shaft. Seems like a lot of bit. Also surprised that given that I read everywhere how great the 1010 is with the LR32. I understand that the big use is drilling 5mm holes for shelf pins but still...

Why the surprise ?  We're talking about European routers.  8mm is the defacto standard for big bits.  Or it was when I lived there last century.  Take a look at FT's catalog - their big mortising, roundover and ogee bits all have 8mm shanks. There's a lot of meat on an 8mm shank, so there's no real need to worry.

The real drawback is that 8mm bits aren't prevalent in the USA  except for Leigh - at those are just straight and dovetail bit.  So you have to have plan ahead and usually pay a premium over a comp. 1/2" bit.  But to think they aren't up to the task is erroneous.

No one thinks twice about how small in diameter the original Domino cutters are, and they are hogging out a lot of material.  this operation for years was the domain of big routers with 1/2" shank straight cutters and jig.

 

[DynaGlide]

[member=15289]Birdhunter[/member] [member=65062]DynaGlide[/member] -This is exactly why I asked the question. I was surprised that FT made both bits with the smaller 8mm shaft. Seems like a lot of bit. Also surprised that given that I read everywhere how great the 1010 is with the LR32. I understand that the big use is drilling 5mm holes for shelf pins but still...

Why the surprise ?  We're talking about European routers.  8mm is the defacto standard for big bits.  Or it was when I lived there last century.  Take a look at FT's catalog - their big mortising, roundover and ogee bits all have 8mm shanks. There's a lot of meat on an 8mm shank, so there's no real need to worry.

The real drawback is that 8mm bits aren't prevalent in the USA  except for Leigh - at those are just straight and dovetail bit.  So you have to have plan ahead and usually pay a premium over a comp. 1/2" bit.  But to think they aren't up to the task is erroneous.

No one thinks twice about how small in diameter the original Domino cutters are, and they are hogging out a lot of material.  this operation for years was the domain of big routers with 1/2" shank straight cutters and jig.

[member=67935]xedos[/member] While we're de-railing this thread into obscurity, would you happen to have a good source for 8mm shank bits? I want to stop using 1/2" altogether unless I know it's going to be for table operation. I don't own the 1010 router but will one day and want to have all my handheld bits in 8mm shank.

I saw some sets offered by Bosch and others in Germany with mixed reviews. I'll be traveling over there in a few months and am thinking of small items I could bring back with me.

 

[Cheese]

Do you think that my OF1010 will spin the Festool 20mm boring bit through MDF effectively and without burning up the router? I have not used many router bits that are smaller than 1/2” shafts in quite some time and I have never used what is basically a Forster bit in a router before. Enough power to do the job?

More than enough power for the task.

I started to make a 18 mm ply MFT using the Woodpeckers template and the 1400 but ran into the alignment/centering issues I've discussed already.

I finished the project using the 1010 router with a custom centered template guide and the 20 mm 491072 router bit.

Just dial the speed back a bit and there will be nice round holes with NO burning. Remember, you're not putting any side load on the bit it's just a straight plunge cut.