Fitting new doors 1 3/4" doors in old 1 3/8" rabbet frames

[AWB]

Hello.
First timer here.
I am in the door and window replacement business, 20yrs.

My question is how to come up with a router jig/system for rabbeting the door stops of 100yr old frames that can't be removed, done in place. I do this on a one or two door basis for residential doors but I am looking at a job with 90 1 3/8" doors in a old hotel that need to be upgraded to 1 3/4" thick for a new card-lock system and fire rated WS and spring hinges.

I saw the post with the "Frame Fitter" product from Holland. This would be key for the door sizing as they all are sort of custom size to some degree.

I usually approach this problem with the Bosh Colt and a guide mounted to the inside of the frame. The Colt has that cool offset attachment to get almost into the corners. This job will use smoke-seal WS so the tolerances do not have to be to my normal OCD level.

I'm looking to spend some money and develop something that will make this type of instal a more common practice for me and not the normal all day, can't leave till its done deal.  I have used the 80/20 aluminum products to some degree and this is my lego kit for some solutions in the jig building arena.

Any ideas would be appreciated.
Thanks.

 

[Linbro]

Probably not what you're looking for, but this tool cuts the door stop off, flush with the frame, so you can apply a new one with the correct set back. Expensive option though.
http://www.virutex.es/productes/?accio=producte&id=121

 

[AWB]

Very cool. The hand crank climbing up the aluminum extrusion is nice.
This would be a tough one on this job as the stops are about 3" wide and I would be most likely buzzing though all the nails that hold the jamb in place.

I'm was wondering about having a guide that mounts or clamps to the face of the frame (vs the inside) and be able to run the router body on the outside with the router bit extending into the jamb. Would need to be a long router bit and the casing has some profiles that could make it even longer to get to the stop that needs trimming. 1 3/4" depth for door, 5/4 for trim sounds like too deep to me. This method is nice for stopping blowout but not really practical, me thinks.

Hmm...

 

[mdelrossi]

I'm not sure if this would help, but there is a video of using TS55 a track and the fs rapid clamps to trim either a door or a window in place. It's floating on the fog somewhere.

 

[unityroad]

Hi, I think Lamello may have what you need. Its either the Tanga Delta 4, or the Tanga Delta 2.  With a simple screwed on guide I think these will work. Good luck. [wink]

 

[AWB]

Very cool.
Thanks. I'll roll this around. Could completely change my approach.

 

[Brent Taylor]

i ran into a problem like this in an old abby that I used to work at and end up using my trim router with a tilt base and a long straight bit to cut out the inside corners. Another method you might consider if the doors are solid core fire doors is to rebate the edge of the doors, but check with and get it in writing if everyone will allow it to be done. I have had to modify doors in the past and when I was a Building Inspector I had time when I was asked to approve changes to doors in remodeling projects. A slight rebate on the door would be easier than on the frame.( I know this is a dumb question, but you did check to see if it was not an applied stop.) B 

 

[AWB]

Thanks for the reply.

These are solid fir jambs, rock hard 100yr old, old clear finish, made from real honest 2" x 8" stock. They have transoms and the mullion is also a solid 4" x 8" and are buttered into the concrete walls so taking the jambs out is not happening.

Rabbeting the doors voids the warranty and also in this case gets into conflict with hardware.

rebate, rabbet, shmabbit

Starting to go back to the idea of using my 1400 with the face frame guide and a long straight plunge bit. I see you can get some pretty long ones I"ve never looked into before.
A~

 

[bkharman]

Could you use a rebate planner and a chisel to drop the depth?

 

[AWB]

So maybe the 850 planer with the edge guard off. Leaves a pretty bit top and bottom section, cord out the end. Could work to take out some easy material then use the router to clean up.

Dunno.

I am shooting for a one or two "set up" a door process if possible.

 

[Daver]

Will the clear fir jambs remain clear or be painted the color of the new door?
It's tough to come up with a production level solution to the corners and to the bottoms of the jamb legs.
I would almost be inclined to pop the interior casing, install 3/8" jamb extensions (reinforced with screws horizontally by the strike) and then reinstall casing.
Heck, even if it's stain grade, getting some clear fir for jamb extensions.

 

[AWB]

Come to think of it the few rooms I saw were painted inside and the clear finish side is in the hall.
Hmm. I'd have to fir out the transom and the head piece. Lot less sawdust for sure. Its the time and paint/wall issues up against the routing setup and mess. Still have to do hinges, WS and strike.

Thanks, all this is good info.
A~