Fitting of hinges to sideboard

[cliffp]

I am planning to make a copy of this sideboard:

http://www.johnlewis.com/john-lewis-henry-3-door-3-drawer-sideboard/p231432427?kpid=231432427&s_kenid=7bc4ed08-5110-7529-9af7-00006d466232&s_kwcid=ppc_pla&tmad=c&tmcampid=73

and am wondering what is the best way to attach the hinges. I should say at the outset that I intend to use unsprung hinges with push to open mechanisms.

Clearly the outer doors are inset and the middle one is full overlay. I was thinking (for each hinge) of attaching a piece of wood between the lower shelf and the inside top of the unit (the horizontal piece that runs just above the line of the top of the doors and just below the drawers). This piece would be 18mm thick and just deep enough to accomodate the hinge mounting plate so as not to intrude too much on the space inside the cabinet. The only thing I don't like about this is that whereas in many designs, the hinge mounts to a component that is already there for another reason, in this case the member is only being added to attach the hinge and from a design point of view is not that elegant (or maybe I am being over fussy). I would also have to cut a notch out of the shelf which would also be less than elegant. I know that in the case of the outer doors I could use hinges that attach to face frames but these (I understand) are difficult to mount accurately and require a platemate jig (expensive). Also, I am afraid that the door (solid oak) would be rather heavy and the face frame mounting method would not be strong enough. For the central door, I don't see any options for mounting other than the one proposed (note that I wasn't planning to create a separate compartment behind the right hand door although I could if it would lead to a better overall result).

I would be grateful for any advice!

 

[GarryMartin]

It doesn't look particularly complex. Standard Blum-type hinges should be fine, and it certainly looks like they are what are in use in the picture.

[attachimg=#]

And again, judging by the picture, there must be a piece of wood to accommodate the hinge for the middle door as it has a door next to it, so there really is nothing else for it to attach to.

Do they not have them in store? Perhaps you could take a cheeky peek?  [wink]

 

[cliffp]

GarryMartin, thanks for that. I think there may well be a full depth (ie divider) piece of wood to attach the middle door to. I wanted to have one big open space so would use a batten of minimal depth to accomodate the hinge (unless others think this a bad idea). I looked in my local (Chichester) store and they didn't have any of these to look at (not anything similar enough to answer my questions).

 

[mouppe]

Could you pop into a John lewis store and see how it's done on the original?

 

[cliffp]

I tried my local store and they didn't have any. I suppose I could try and find one that did (London is only a couple of hours away).

 

[GarryMartin]

I wanted to have one big open space

The only way I can think of doing that would be to use a different hinge design altogether, or to perhaps have only the two outer doors hinged, and the middle door attached to one of the end doors on a piano hinge or similar?

 

[cliffp]

I don't like the idea of attaching the two right hand doors with a piano hinge. Do you think it would look bad to have the hinges for the central door mounted to a piece of wood 18mm thick and 60mm deep (ie deep enough to mount the hinges to)? If it did I would simply use a full depth partition.

On reflection I might go for this approach for the outer doors:

If the face frame component is solid oak it should be strong enough? Also, on the alignment front, I could fit the actual door to a dummy frame and make a jig that effectively transfers the correct mounting holes from the dummy to the actual.

 

[GarryMartin]

Personally, I don't think it will look at all bad and can also be used to give the long span of shelf extra support. It's common to have this sort of configuration.

The photo below is of the corner unit in my kitchen to show you the idea. It's a double-width unit, but half is hidden into the corner, and the door opens from the centre.

[attachimg=#]

 

[tiralie]

I think there may well be a full depth (ie divider) piece of wood to attach the middle door to.

Probably. That is a fairly large span (4' 6") so that shelf which is probably 5/8 would sag otherwise.

I wanted to have one big open space so would use a batten of minimal depth to accommodate the hinge (unless others think this a bad idea).

I don't like battens because they effectively cut off access so you may as well have the support. Alternatively you could have the middle door attached to the door on the right and create a bi fold door. If you are going to have a shelf, you will have to make that shelf thicker to avoid sag across that span.

I don't like the idea of attaching the two right hand doors with a piano hinge. Do you think it would look bad to have the hinges for the central door mounted to a piece of wood 18mm thick and 60mm deep (ie deep enough to mount the hinges to)? If it did I would simply use a full depth partition.

I agree with Gary. Like I said above, a batten cuts off full through access and you will need to have a thick shelf, but you could have a thinner shelf if it is fixed and provide support for your hinge.

On reflection I might go for this approach for the outer doors:

Yes, I think that's a better choice. If you use a batten, the middle door would be hung with a hinge is a as Garry has shown.

I think you need to make the  the reveal below the finger pulls on the drawers thicker than those on this design (see detail). They are pretty thin and will probably break off with any heavy use.
[attachimg=#]

 

[cliffp]

Tim, Garry, thanks for the help. I think I'll go for the 3/4" shelf, full divider to provide support for the shelf and middle door hinges and the half cranked hinge arrangement I showed for the outer doors. I will also take note of the advice about the weak drawer pull arrangement and make mine stronger.

 

[peter halle]

Cliff,

I was waiting to post this comment until after others gave advice because this comment has nothing to do with what you were asking about.

In my mind looking at the front of the cabinet I like the design.  But one of the strange design aspects to me - although I admit it makes this different, is the drawer fronts extending to form part of the top.  It looks cool, but if the drawer fronts are made of solid wood the natural expansion could cause them to raise above the surface.  Additionally, I could see the drawers below catching dust from the table top.

Where those items are sold, are they considered higher end?  I like the look, but apart from the above, I find it interesting that the drawer boxes are screwed together in one image.

I will love to see your build and interpretation, just curious about the other.

Peter

 

[cliffp]

Peter, On the subject of expansion (which I have no practical experience of) I suppose the effect could be ameliorated to some extent by adjustment of the location of the drawers or if it is bad enough by planing off the top and applying finish to match in the newly exposed surface. Of course this isn't much good if it contracts again! I suppose I could use laminated MDF and attach an edging (I would rather not as it would get rather labour intensive). Were you thinking that dust would get in the gap between the drawer front and the top when it is closed or that accumulated dust on the top would get in when the drawer is opened? (I am guessing the former). On this point, I am planning to use the runners that actively close so I would hope that there wouldn't be too much of a gap. I think I'll just have to take a chance on this.

These items are fairly high end. They are sold by John Lewis which is quite an upmarket department store and they have a reputation for providing good quality items (and fashionable) and at a competitive price. This piece of furniture costs £800. I agree that it looks bad that the drawers are screwed together - I certainly wouldn't do that.

 

[tiralie]

This is a "production" piece of furniture, unless you are copying it down to veneered panels, construction techniques are important. The only solid wood on that cabinet is the drawer fronts and they are fairly small (approx. 15"x 4-5"), so under normal circumstances I don't think there would be a huge amount of expansion or contraction. Plus the design of the top set down into the carcass sides and frame covers up any expansion contraction on the drawer fronts. If you are going to use solid wood for the top (not advisable)  change the design so the top is over the carcass sides and face frame, don't construct the cabinet the way they have.
Tim

 

[Deansocial]

I would hardly call them high end. They are mass produced. Overrides for what they are really. High end stuff wouldnt have exposed screws on the drawer sides like that.

 

[cliffp]

Thanks Tim and Dean. I was going to use solid oak only for the drawer fronts, doors and possibly the vertical members the doors attach to - maybe I should limit that to drawer fronts only?

 

[Deansocial]

Looks like the only solid on that unit is the drawer fronts. I would put a full panel in between those doors. Nothing is gained having shelf full width and makes it a headache to change the height.

 

[Vi_k]

I love the little slips that guy made to hide the end-grain.  [eek]



I used my handy blue Compu-Pen 3000XR to underline the pieces I am talking about.  [big grin]

Good luck on your homage build!

Vi_k

 

[cliffp]

I am definitely going to put a full panel between the right hand two doors.

Would you put the drawer slides on the sides of the drawers or underneath? I noticed that a few of John Lewis's sideboards had the runners underneath (I had never heard of this). I can imagine this arrangement might be easier if you have a full panel underneath the drawers (as I think is the case here. I could then just have vertical frame members separating the drawers at the front. Thanks for all the help and apologies for my naievity!

 

[GarryMartin]

Side mount or under mount would work - personal preference. They're not really going to be carrying anything heavy after all.

If you're considering minor changes and want to use push to open fittings on the doors, then why not also consider push to open drawers then you could get rid of the handle problem altogether? If you make the doors and drawers inset to the whole unit (i.e. not flush with the top as they are currently), you could "hide" the approximate 6mm needed for travel on the push to open fittings.

 

[cliffp]

Garry, thanks for the suggestion re: the push to open drawers. I'll try and visualise the arrangement.