Floor refinishing question

[rblaustein]

We have a small (about 9' x 9') room with wood floors that I'm thinking of refinishing myself.  I was thinking of renting a U-sander but after reading some posts here, including Matthew's excellent review of the Rotex with his description of his floor finishing experience, I'm wondering about using my Festool sander instead.  But I don't have a Rotex, I have the 150/3 (and a CT22). Matthew used the Rotex in aggressive mode with 36 grit to remove the old finish and level the floors, and said he finished the 150 sq ft room in 40 min.  Then he moved to random orbit using 50, 80, 100, 120 and that took him only 45 min.  My floor is almost half the size so it would seem that in the time it took to go the rental place to get the U-sander one could finish a job this small with the Rotex. Would my 150/3 with something like 36 grit paper be much slower than the Rotex in 'Rotex' mode? Has anyone used a 150/3 to strip finish and level the floors of a room similar in size to what I'm proposing?  Any recs on Cristal vs Rubin (or others) for the initial stage? I was thinking of using Rubin for subsequent grades.  After sanding, my plan was to stain then use a few coats of Bona Mega waterborne poly.

 

[mwhafner]

How bad are the floors?  Unless you just need to strip the finish, I would recommend the Rotex.  The 150/3 is great for the final sanding, but is not great for removing dips, etc. 

What you save on rental, screens, etc will go a long way to justifying the purchase of a Rotex.

 

[rblaustein]

How bad are the floors?  Unless you just need to strip the finish, I would recommend the Rotex.  The 150/3 is great for the final sanding, but is not great for removing dips, etc. 

What you save on rental, screens, etc will go a long way to justifying the purchase of a Rotex.

The floors are in reasonable shape so I think I will really only need to remove finish and not worry about leveling much. The U-sand is about $80 for the day, not counting consumables.

 

[Dan Clermont]

If the room is half the size of Mathew's and you don't have to level I think you will be fine with the ETS providing you are just removing the old finish and getting them ready for new finish.

If you plan to level and remove deep gouges I'd highly recommend the Rotex

Dan Clermont

 

[rwdawson]

I just finished sanding a 9 by 12 room, with a half bath attached.  In my case, I had to remove tile (20 year plus old Armstrong floor covering) and used a heat gun for the adhesive.  I then used my Rotex 150, with Sahpir 36 grit, which worked well, once I got past any remaining adhesive.  After that, I pretty much followed Matthew's routine, finishing off with my 150/3 using 120 grit Rubin.  His review, by the way, was my inspiration for taking on this project.

Since my application differs from yours in that my prep work was much more time consuming and intensive, it's difficult for me to say for sure that the 150/3 would work, at least based on my experience.  My initial thought is that the 150/3 would not be the choice for your sanding if the surface has gouges, etc., as Dan has also indicated.

I might have a a piece of fir that I had to remove from the floor (powder post beetle damage) that I could use for a small experiment.  If so, I will try a couple of different grits with the 150/3 and get back to you later, even though I think I know what the result will be.

As for heavier grit disks, the dealer recommended Saphir, which is what he used when he painted his house.  I found 36 grit Saphir to be more effective than 40 grit Cristal for my situation.

Also, think about what your next project or two might be.  Would a Rotex be required?  That could affect your decision.

I hope this helps,

Richard

 

[rblaustein]

Thanks for the replies. I'll try to get some 36 or 40 grit discs and experiment on an area in the small closet that's in the room.  I played with some 80 grit Rubin and realized that wasn't aggressive enough to remove all the finish.  I don't really envision needing the Rotex any time soon--the 150/3 has been fine for anything I've done lately or plan to do in the near future, hence my hesitation.

 

[Toolpig]

Been there, done that.  Save your back!!  Just because you can doesn't mean you should.

Rent the U-sand machine and use 36, 60 & 80 grits.  Also use the scuffing pads in-between coats of poly.  The home centers are bad about stocking abrasives and scuffing pads, so you might try the manufacturer direct, which is Cherry Hill Manufacturing.

Having said that, the Festool DX93 is great for getting into the corners where the U-sand won't reach.  I also used my ROTEX 150 for stripping and refinishing my oak stair treads.  Perfect for that!

JW

We have a small (about 9' x 9') room with wood floors that I'm thinking of refinishing myself.  I was thinking of renting a U-sander but after reading some posts here, including Matthew's excellent review of the Rotex with his description of his floor finishing experience, I'm wondering about using my Festool sander instead.  But I don't have a Rotex, I have the 150/3 (and a CT22). Matthew used the Rotex in aggressive mode with 36 grit to remove the old finish and level the floors, and said he finished the 150 sq ft room in 40 min.  Then he moved to random orbit using 50, 80, 100, 120 and that took him only 45 min.  My floor is almost half the size so it would seem that in the time it took to go the rental place to get the U-sander one could finish a job this small with the Rotex. Would my 150/3 with something like 36 grit paper be much slower than the Rotex in 'Rotex' mode? Has anyone used a 150/3 to strip finish and level the floors of a room similar in size to what I'm proposing?  Any recs on Cristal vs Rubin (or others) for the initial stage? I was thinking of using Rubin for subsequent grades.  After sanding, my plan was to stain then use a few coats of Bona Mega waterborne poly.

 

[mwhafner]

If the floor is in good shape, then you should be fine.  When dealing with floors, it is always a good idea to start in a closet or "unseen" area. 

If your room was larger, I would agree with Jason.  I have never used the U-Sand, but have used the Varathane model.  It was a good finishing sander.  I would estimate that it was twice as fast as the Rotex.  I own both a drum and square pad sander, and if the room is small, I would rather use my Rotex in most situations.  When dealing with floors, there is a huge difference between  95% and 99% dust collection.  It can mean hours of cleanup, dusting, etc.

 

[Toolpig]

I used the Varathane floor sander once connected to my CT22 vac.  It improved the dust-collection of that machine dramatically.

JW

If the floor is in good shape, then you should be fine.   When dealing with floors, it is always a good idea to start in a closet or "unseen" area. 

If your room was larger, I would agree with Jason.  I have never used the U-Sand, but have used the Varathane model.  It was a good finishing sander.  I would estimate that it was twice as fast as the Rotex.  I own both a drum and square pad sander, and if the room is small, I would rather use my Rotex in most situations.  When dealing with floors, there is a huge difference between  95% and 99% dust collection.  It can mean hours of cleanup, dusting, etc.

 

[joekenpo]

I had to refinish 700 sq ft of floor in a rental house I was redoing to sell.  The finish on the floor was about 50 yrs old and gone in many places.  I rented the ROS floor sander from the BORG.  The pads loaded up in an instant.  It turns out that the finish was partly shellac and had to be taken off via other means.  I ended sanding with a belt sander first and then go back to the ROS.  At the time I had not yet gone down the slippery green slope  .

That being said, I would make sure the finish contains no shellac.  There is a test for shellac, though it escapes me what it involves.  Good luck

Jim

 

[peter halle]

Denatured alcohol will soften shellac.

Peter

 

[Dave Ronyak]

I say go for it with your ETS 150/3.  I refinished ~1200 sq ft of oak parquet using a 5" RO Bosch sander before I discovered Festool.  I sanded and refinished it in ~100 sq ft increments since I was working during winter and using solvent-based finishing materials and did not want to overwhelm the house with fumes.  I started using 40 - 50 grit aluminum oxide papers and stopped at 120 - 150 grit.  The floor came out much smoother and level than the previous refinish job done by professionals using the traditional drum/belt sanders designed for sanding flooring.  With a Rotex or even your 150/3 sander I have no doubt the job would go fairly quickly.  Connecting the sander to a vacuum machine is key.

Dave R.

 

[rblaustein]

I say go for it with your ETS 150/3...With a Rotex or even your 150/3 sander I have no doubt the job would go fairly quickly.  Connecting the sander to a vacuum machine is key.

Dave R.

Well--I gave it a try in a part of the closet that's in that room.  I used 40 grit Cristal on the 150/3 and had a hard time removing all the old stain on a 1' x 2' section, even after 10 min.  I imagine it would be a different story with the Rotex, but I don't have one.  And maybe I should have used 36 grit Saphir but I've been convinced by several folks to use the appropriate tool and so will rent a U-sand on Saturday and see how that goes. I think the $80 (plus discs) will be worth it.  I'll report back after the weekend.

 

[nickao]

No way can that 150/3 sand your floor you would be sanding for years! Sounds like you found that out. The 150/3 will be great for certain highly visible areas you can not get with the larger floor sander and only for the final sanding just before finishing.

The Rotex is great as a companion to the floor sander or for very small jobs only. You are doing right renting the larger floor sander.

Nick

 

[Toolpig]

I used the 36-grit Saphir with my Rotex (and even 24-grit in some really bad spots).  This was on white oak that hadn't been sealed in probably 50 years.  Lots of ground-in dirt, stains, etc.

If your floor is really bad, with a lot of ground-in dirt, you'll definitely want at least 36-grit.

Looking back, I probably should have cowboy-ed up and rented the big drum sander like the pro's use.  The Rotex or DX93 is perfect for edge-sanding, corners and stair treads, though.

Jason

I say go for it with your ETS 150/3...With a Rotex or even your 150/3 sander I have no doubt the job would go fairly quickly.  Connecting the sander to a vacuum machine is key.

Dave R.

Well--I gave it a try in a part of the closet that's in that room.  I used 40 grit Cristal on the 150/3 and had a hard time removing all the old stain on a 1' x 2' section, even after 10 min.  I imagine it would be a different story with the Rotex, but I don't have one.  And maybe I should have used 36 grit Saphir but I've been convinced by several folks to use the appropriate tool and so will rent a U-sand on Saturday and see how that goes. I think the $80 (plus discs) will be worth it.  I'll report back after the weekend.