Fogtainers For Sale! Anyone interested? This Ends August 15, 2010

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johnnyinnb said:
hey, second picture, front row 3rd from the right, it`s one of mine. [big grin]

Good Guess!

I wish I had been there to see them taking them out of the huge pallet size box.  The pallet is about 3 1/2 feet tall.  The individual systainers are latched into stacks.  You need to lift that stack straight up.  A step ladder must have been involved - I didn't see a basketball player sized person there to help.  [big grin]  

Peter
 
Peter-

The colors (latch and 'tainer) are very striking -- good choices. Looking forward even more now.

--Steve.
 
you know it is a real festool type product when you want it now but can not have it even though you have seen pictures.

I am just joking....you are doing a great job.
 
tallgrass said:
you know it is a real festool type product when you want it now but can not have it even though you have seen pictures.

[bite tongue]

Hahahaa!  Too true (sometimes)!!
 
I was just doing some designing in SketchUp, and realised that I never uploaded the FOGsys models to the warehouse!

I have altered the models to more accurately reflect the actual design that will ship, and uploaded them. You can now download them HERE for use in your own sysport designs!!!

[big grin]
 
Johnny,

I see that you have a bunch of sketchup models. any chance of you rolling them all up into a zip file of if it you already have to you have a link?
 
harry_ said:
Johnny,

I see that you have a bunch of sketchup models. any chance of you rolling them all up into a zip file of if it you already have to you have a link?

Harry,

No need for a zip file, they are all available from the warehouse. You can download them from there easily. Why would you need them in a compressed file?
 
First batch is being printed on October 26th.  Yeah!  Drove down to inspect color match.  Yeah!  Can't be there to watch and photograph.  Boo!

Others are in the middle of the Atlantic in a really big box!

Thanks for your patience!

Peter
 
Peter Halle said:
First batch is being printed on October 26th.  Yeah!  Drove down to inspect color match.  Yeah!  Can't be there to watch and photograph.  Boo!

Others are in the middle of the Atlantic in a really big box!

Thanks for your patience!

Peter

Ooohhhh, that's right.  It's nearly November and the great Fogtainer migration of 2010.  Can't wait to get 'em!     [big grin]

Hey Peter, can you update the scrolling Fogtainer total count that was purchased by members?  276 is the current value.  I thought we crested 300.  [eek]
 
I wanted to update all of you – especially those who so gratiously offered to receive their Fogtainers early sans the green latches.  You will not be receiving your latches early.

Earlier I had posted here about my receipt of the only remaining blue systainers in the US and what the game plan was.

The situation with this initial order has gone so far off that I feel you should see some correspondence.  This was cut and pasted from my email.  I have in the text made some alterations only to the point that the information had nothing to do with the situation at hand or could, because of the searchability of the internet, cloud this situation.  That information had to do with pricing or names.  Nothing of relevance has been eliminated.

If you see asterisks and notes, those were added by me for clarification.  I am currently investigating other printers within 800 miles of my location as well as all the other aspects – legal and otherwise.

P.S.  The shipment from Germany arrived in Baltimore on the 4th and is awaiting Customs inspection.
________________________________________

Subject: Re: Custom Blue box
Date: October 29, 2010 9:44:37 AM EDT
To: xxxx
Bcc: plhalle@comcast.net     ****(NOTE:  I always BCC myself to prove that the email system worked)****

XXXX,

I have gone over this situation in my head ever since I left your facility yesterday afternoon and have had discussions with people on my end.

At the risk of being blunt, this situation in its entirety is unacceptable - not just with the small cases.

The project as discussed and priced by your firm was to print 4 different size abs plastic storage cases with the logo supplied at the same location referenced off the bottom of the case.  I paid the fee of $XXXX to have the necessary work performed to have a prototype produced.  I submitted that prototype to my people for approval and based on the quality of that work I received the go ahead for this project.  They were quite impressed with the quality of the work and only suggested that there be additional prints to fill in the voids in the logo caused by the texture of the products.  They placed an order with me for product to be shipped back to Europe to prove that they had a possible vendor to provide these services here in the US.  **** NOTE:  Several people from Festool ordered Fogtainers.  I have no idea what they intend to do with them. Tanos would love to have a tried and true vendor for these services in North America. *****

I supplied to your firm the anticipated numbers as well as the suggestion that additional prints be made to improve the quality of the finished product.  You provided pricing for the printing based on several different scenarios based on quantity and the request for additional prints, and then I provided to my "customers" images of the prototype and took orders.

Following delivery of the product to your facility and during a discussion to make sure that there weren't any misunderstandings, we went over two changes - one of which was suggested by your firm when I picked up and paid for the prototype.  The suggestion made by your firm was to lower the logo about 1/16" to 1/8" so that it was centered between the bottom of the case and the small embossed oval at the top of the area where it was to be printed.  The only other change was the color.

I made two trips to your facility to approve the color at your request.  You brought out one of the smallest sized cases and applied a plastic adhesive overlay of the logo to illustrate that you understood the placing requirements.

On Wednesday afternoon I received a phone call informing me that the printing had been completed but the logo had been moved to be centered on the larger cases due to difficulty in the printing process.  I agreed to come out on Thursday to inspect.  At no time prior to the completion of the printing in this whole process was I made aware of any issues.

Upon inspecting the product on Thursday I noted the following:
1.  The logos are not printed parallel to the top or the bottom of the cases.  
2.  The logos appear uncentered from left to right
3.  The logos are not printed in the agreed to locations in reference to the bottom of the cases as we agreed prior.

Frankly I was shocked.  Initially I was most concerned with the appearance on the smallest sized cases, but after thought and discussion this situation was, and is, totally opposite of what I anticipated from a firm with the type of clients that your firm has served over the past 100 years.  Your firm, thru its actions, has produced a product that in its current form I can not offer to my customers and puts me into an adverse financial situation.

Please advise as to the steps that your firm is going to take to rectify the current situation and either bring the product back to its original condition or reprint as was originally agreed to.

I await your written response.

Peter Halle

____________________________

On Oct 28, 2010, at 4:16 PM, XXXX wrote:
Peter,

Here is the original printed case. (NOT CROOKED) ****NOTE:  An image of the prototype was attached.  That is Fogtainer 1 that Brice owns now.****

The issue with the smaller units being slightly crooked is that the lip above the logo interferes with the pad. Apparently, she was actually
Fighting to keep the cases as "in-place" as possible. Which failed.

But this case looks fine, so im attributing that to human error.

I should have taken my time with these and printed a sample of each and every case since 1/16" inch tolerance left to right is critical.

I didn’t want to have to charge you for four pre-production samples, but I should have made them anyways.

These are the issues associated with doing too much at once and not focusing.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

I had two cases wiped down as best as possible. Im going to see what they look like when the plastic coating has settled so we can decide whether the logo should be reprinted or left alone.

(they might look too rough after being wiped down)

Please do not think that we're incapable, it was my fault for not separating all four cases and doing pre-pro's from the start.

I’ll let you know how the small cases look in the morning after being wiped.
If they are acceptable, I could have the smaller cases reprinted by Wednesday.

Thanks
- XXXX
________________________________________

I suspect that Monday will bring me the news that I dread.  Just more complications opportunities.

Hang in there guys.  I am working on this.

Please trust me on this one.

Peter
 
Bummer Peter. Sorry you are running in to printing problems.  It is very disheartening when you work your butt of to insure a great product and some one on the production line screws it up. The boss should have been checking there work. He must have been asleep at the helm.

Do not stress over it, we can wait. It is not like we need these boxes for any other reason other then their fun.

Hang in there we are all with you.
 
Good effort Peter but, I am kind of glad I didn't shell out a bunch of money only to have to wait and wait.

Not your fault Peter, I know that things will always go wrong or something unexpected will come up.

What did they use to get the ink off the systainers?
 
Crooked is Crooked. There's no excuse for that and it is unacceptable. If they are manually stamping the Sys with a pad then they should have made a jig that places the stamper at the same location each and every time to take the human error out of it. A little bit up or down probably wouldn't be an issue for me.
Maybe it's just me but if I have to do anything 300 times over to get 1 job done, I'm making some sort of jig to ensure consistent quality.
The fact that they didn't stamp a prototype of each size to make sure all was right is a poor sign. Someone dropped the ball and they should be willing to take the hit for it. I'm also a little concerned about what 'wipe' means. I'm guessing wiping the paint off the front of the Sys. Have to wonder what chemical was used to get that paint off and if it discolored the Sys face.
Whatever the situation Peter don't beat yourself up too much. I know I would be beating myself up even though it sounds like you did everything you could. You promised to deliver the goods and now someone else is screwing the deal. Hmm ... sounds like more than one job I've been on over the years. I bet every contractor here knows exactly how you feel. Whether the printer is a real pro or not I don't know. It does however seem like he may not have taken the job seriously enough. Maybe you should give him a couple of website addresses of Fogger's who make stuff. Ask him if he thinks guys who make that type of furniture or humidor are going to be Ok with his work quality.
Don't sweat it, just have those Fogtainers in the mail to us by Monday.  [big grin]
 
Holzhacker said:
Crooked is Crooked. There's no excuse for that and it is unacceptable. If they are manually stamping the Sys with a pad then they should have made a jig that places the stamper at the same location each and every time to take the human error out of it. A little bit up or down probably wouldn't be an issue for me.
Maybe it's just me but if I have to do anything 300 times over to get 1 job done, I'm making some sort of jig to ensure consistent quality.
The fact that they didn't stamp a prototype of each size to make sure all was right is a poor sign. Someone dropped the ball and they should be willing to take the hit for it. I'm also a little concerned about what 'wipe' means. I'm guessing wiping the paint off the front of the Sys. Have to wonder what chemical was used to get that paint off and if it discolored the Sys face.
Whatever the situation Peter don't beat yourself up too much. I know I would be beating myself up even though it sounds like you did everything you could. You promised to deliver the goods and now someone else is screwing the deal. Hmm ... sounds like more than one job I've been on over the years. I bet every contractor here knows exactly how you feel. Whether the printer is a real pro or not I don't know. It does however seem like he may not have taken the job seriously enough. Maybe you should give him a couple of website addresses of Fogger's who make stuff. Ask him if he thinks guys who make that type of furniture or humidor are going to be Ok with his work quality.
Don't sweat it, just have those Fogtainers in the mail to us by Monday.  [big grin]

I agree wholeheartedly with that. Except for that last sentence, obviously  [wink]
 
In response to those who have posted to date:

I have beaten myself to death and beyond over this.  Not just about anything that I could have possibly done wrong - which I can't see, but also because this his been a ground breaking and benchmark setting project and I have / had plans to expand it to other areas.

Waiting and Waiting - I posted that the shipments would be in November.  Today is November 6.  I still have time.  Darcy, you said that you beat yours to death anyway and that is why you weren't going to order.

The chemical to remove the ink is a propriety  product that cleans plastic.  After examining the products and returning home I googled and called the ink manufacturer.  Their offices were closed.  I called them the next day before business hours and got hold of a technical guy.  We went thru the whole problem, and he recommended a product and gave me other details.  I did not supply those to the vendor.  That vendor is the "expert" and I would not make any suggestions for legal reasons.  If I suggested a product and that then ruined $4000 plus of systainers, then I would not have a case, if it would come to that.  The vendor ended up using that product on his own.

The whole concept of having the logo printed in one place referenced off the bottom of the cases was to allow for a jig or positioning device to be developed and used to print all the sizes without multiple setup charges and additional costs to you.  Like you, I have no idea what was so difficult with this.  This was not rocket science in my mind.  The prototype was printed without problems after all.

I assure all of you that I have and continue to lose sleep over this.  I worry about the fact that members will feel that I am being fraudulent.  I worry about the fact that I have embarrassed Festool and this Forum and that I have violated the trust that all the Festool people and you gave me to attempt this project.  I posted earlier that I wanted this project to be a home run versus a single.  I can't stand not to succeed.

I assure you that for all those who are disappointed, I am more so.  Additionally, every hiccup in the process costs me - not from a reward from funds you paid for your Fogtainers - but rather from lost income dealing with this.  That I agreed to do and will do because I believe so strongly in this Forum as a member here and because I believe that this effort has the potential to lay the groundwork for other fabulous other projects.

Edit:  I have tried to keep all of you up to date and be honest with you in this process. I would never dream of doing it otherwise.  If this transaction goes worse, I may not be able to do so in depth due to reasons outside the forum.  I will post that I can not answer, etc. due to reasons outside the forum.

Peter
 
Peter, my commiserations over the problems that you are encountering and I wish that you were not losing sleep over it.  You did and are continuing to do your best and I thank you for all your efforts.
 
Frank Pellow said:
Peter, my commiserations over the problems that you are encountering and I wish that you were not losing sleep over it.  You did and are continuing to do your best and I thank you for all your efforts.

I'd add my good wishes to Frank's, Peter.
 
jonny round boy said:
Holzhacker said:
Crooked is Crooked. There's no excuse for that and it is unacceptable. If they are manually stamping the Sys with a pad then they should have made a jig that places the stamper at the same location each and every time to take the human error out of it. A little bit up or down probably wouldn't be an issue for me.
Maybe it's just me but if I have to do anything 300 times over to get 1 job done, I'm making some sort of jig to ensure consistent quality.
The fact that they didn't stamp a prototype of each size to make sure all was right is a poor sign. Someone dropped the ball and they should be willing to take the hit for it. I'm also a little concerned about what 'wipe' means. I'm guessing wiping the paint off the front of the Sys. Have to wonder what chemical was used to get that paint off and if it discolored the Sys face.
Whatever the situation Peter don't beat yourself up too much. I know I would be beating myself up even though it sounds like you did everything you could. You promised to deliver the goods and now someone else is screwing the deal. Hmm ... sounds like more than one job I've been on over the years. I bet every contractor here knows exactly how you feel. Whether the printer is a real pro or not I don't know. It does however seem like he may not have taken the job seriously enough. Maybe you should give him a couple of website addresses of Fogger's who make stuff. Ask him if he thinks guys who make that type of furniture or humidor are going to be Ok with his work quality.
Don't sweat it, just have those Fogtainers in the mail to us by Monday.  [big grin]

I agree wholeheartedly with that. Except for that last sentence, obviously  [wink]
jonny round boy said:
Holzhacker said:
Crooked is Crooked. There's no excuse for that and it is unacceptable. If they are manually stamping the Sys with a pad then they should have made a jig that places the stamper at the same location each and every time to take the human error out of it. A little bit up or down probably wouldn't be an issue for me.
Maybe it's just me but if I have to do anything 300 times over to get 1 job done, I'm making some sort of jig to ensure consistent quality.
The fact that they didn't stamp a prototype of each size to make sure all was right is a poor sign. Someone dropped the ball and they should be willing to take the hit for it. I'm also a little concerned about what 'wipe' means. I'm guessing wiping the paint off the front of the Sys. Have to wonder what chemical was used to get that paint off and if it discolored the Sys face.
Whatever the situation Peter don't beat yourself up too much. I know I would be beating myself up even though it sounds like you did everything you could. You promised to deliver the goods and now someone else is screwing the deal. Hmm ... sounds like more than one job I've been on over the years. I bet every contractor here knows exactly how you feel. Whether the printer is a real pro or not I don't know. It does however seem like he may not have taken the job seriously enough. Maybe you should give him a couple of website addresses of Fogger's who make stuff. Ask him if he thinks guys who make that type of furniture or humidor are going to be Ok with his work quality.
Don't sweat it, just have those Fogtainers in the mail to us by Monday.  [big grin]

I agree wholeheartedly with that. Except for that last sentence, obviously  [wink]

Yeah, I was thinking Tuesday.  [poke]

Peter,

I imagine I speak for most, if not all of the forum in saying "Don't worry about it! / Don't lose sleep over it". We have known all along that these fogtainers would be ~some time in coming~. So whether the delay is a day, a week or a month or more, it is not going to have an adverse effect on the quality of my sleep.

As I am sure most all of us here are aware, sometimes dealing with subcontractors can be like trying to push a piece of rope. Tons of effort, questionable results. Can't get any real work out of either till you get them strait again.

In the end, one way or another, I have every confidence that you will get this all worked out to member's satisfaction.

Good night and sleep well!
 
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