FOGtainers - Help with UK Orders

[jonny round boy]

I've been asked by a few UK members for estimates of shipping/import taxes for the FOGtainers. I have replied to all individually saying I'm looking into it, but I figured it would be quicker to start a thread.

I've looked into the import taxes, and (unsurprisingly) it's quite complicated. Here's what I've found so far.

Duty is paid not only on the item value, but also the cost of shipping and insurance. The duty is 3.7%, but is only charged where the goods value (not including shipping & insurance) exceeds GBP135.  However, if the tax due works out at less than GBP9.00, they don't bother collecting it. VAT is due on the entire value, including shipping & insurance fees.

If you're in the UK and looking to place an order for FOGtainers, you could try the following:

1. Decide on the systainers you want, and calculate the weight. The PACKED weights are estimated as follows:

Sys1 - 7lb / 3.2kg;
Sys2 - 8lb / 3.6kg;
Sys3 - 9lb / 4.1kg;
Sys4 - 10lb / 4.5kg.

These weights are admittedly on the high side, but it's better over than under.

2. You can then go to the UPS/DHL/other carrier website & get a shipping cost estimate for that weight, from Peter's zip code (23139) to your postcode. Don't forget to get a price for insurance if you want it.

3. Calculate the import taxes based on the values of the goods and the shipping & insurance. There are some online calculators available that can do this for you.

From the costings I've done, if you want more than one systainer, or anything larger than a sys2, shipping this way will more than double, and in some cases triple, the base cost of each systainer. If you're happy with just one Sys1, then it could be shipped fairly cheaply by USPS (American equivalent of Royal Mail).

Alternatively:

If you are wanting to order but the cost of the shipping is putting you off, then there is another option which is to ship them from the US to the UK in one shipment, and then post them out to the various UK members from here.

I'm happy to get pricing for this, and to act a distributor, but I'd need to know how many FOGtainers we're talking about. If all UK members could PM me with their provisional orders, I can then get a quote for shipping them over in one shipment which will work out much cheaper, plus the costs for domestic postage to each member.

I'll leave it until next Friday, 6th August to give everyone chance to send me their requirements. That then gives me a week or so to get the quotes done & out to everyone, so they can get their orders to Peter for his deadline of August 15th.

To give you an idea of the cost, I've done some calculations. If we can ship a reasonable quantity on a pallet then I estimate that the cost of each systainer, delivered, duty paid, and VAT paid, would be around 60% more than the prices quoted by Peter. Converting to GBP, that would be:

Sys 1 - GBP62;
Sys 2 - GBP67;
Sys 3 - GBP73;
Sys 4 - GBP79.

NOTE: this is only an estimate - the actual costs will depend on the quantity ordered by UK members, however I do feel that this is a realistic cost.

I know that even these prices seem quite steep, but remember - this is a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to own a limited edition product, and to show your support for the FOG!!!

[big grin] [big grin] [big grin]

 

[jmbfestool]

JEZUS!!!!!!   I cant remember what I sent Peter but I think I said

1x Fog 2

2x Fog 3

1x Fog 4

This then with your calculations would cost me

?287 Pounds   [scared]  

Man thats a lot for just four boxes.  

If I was to buy them in uk as standard boxs it would cost me

?144 pounds including Delivery lol

Thats 143 pounds less so I could double the order here in the UK at same price.

That would be

2 x systainer 2

4 x systainer 3

2x systainer 4

Just for 1 pound more lol [crying]

I think thats what puts people of on this side of the pond

JMB

 

[woodguy7]

Jonny

That's quote a shock, basically double the price  [scared]  I will take at least 1 but will possibly take 2, just need to think about which sizes.  Had the prices been a bit better then i probably would have taken 4.  Like i said before, i said at the beginning i would buy & out of loyalty to the FOG (& all Peters hard work)  i will keep my word but it is going to be painfull.

If you are happy to get them all & then distribute then i am more than happy to send you payment up front (i trust you  )  I don't think i could be botherd with all the import pollava.

Cheers Jonny

Woodguy.

 

[jgag]

are we getting charged both multiple tax / import duty and shipping costs here?

The systainers are being made presumably in Germany and shipped to the US - picking up US import tax and then UK import tax...

It's difficult when Peter has done all the work, but I'm left wondering whether it could be organised to make an EU delivery - ie direct from the suppliers - and then distribute from somewhere within the EU?

Also Jonny don't know if you've factored in possible "administration charges" that the carriers make for handling the duty? - I've frequently been stung for as much in "admin" as duty - and been very unhappy...

 

[jonny round boy]

are we getting charged both multiple tax / import duty and shipping costs here?

The systainers are being made presumably in Germany and shipped to the US - picking up US import tax and then UK import tax...

That's true, but I don't think there is a US import tax. I'm sure Peter will confirm or deny this.

It's difficult when Peter has done all the work, but I'm left wondering whether it could be organised to make an EU delivery - ie direct from the suppliers - and then distribute from somewhere within the EU?

That would be possible, aside from the printing of the logo. If you wanted them without the FOG logo then you could buy the dark-blue systainers from Tanos, and the Festool-green latches from Festool. That wouldn't be much of a problem. But it wouldn't be a FOGtainer, and that's the whole point...

It would also be theoretically possible to get the printing done here in the UK the same as Peter is doing in the US, but the quantities wouldn't make that economical. If there were a few hundred to do then maybe, but I guess that total orders for the UK would be anywhere from 10 to 30.

Also Jonny don't know if you've factored in possible "administration charges" that the carriers make for handling the duty? - I've frequently been stung for as much in "admin" as duty - and been very unhappy...

The quote I got was from UPS Freight, and is 'duty paid', including all admin charges. But I will double-check!!!

Woodguy,

Yes, compared to the standard Festool or Tanos systainers they are expensive. But they are a 'special edition', and you won't have the opportunity again. If you need to reduce the quantity of your order because of the shipping price, then I'm sure Peter will understand fully & it won't be a problem (as long as you let him know before he places the order). No-one wants anyone to overstretch themselves!

 

[windmill man]

Hi ,

I think we will be picking up taxes at every point. With hind sight it may have been better to have them printed at source and sent out from their,as FOG is a very international forum now, but hind sight is a wonderful thing as we all know.

I am going to have to take the Woodguy approach here and i will get a couple of token ones to support Peter and FOG. If the cost would have been a few pounds more than standard price I was looking at getting about 12. I was going to use them for all my non Festool stuff.

So now I think its going to have to be 2 one to keep all my Site papers , calculator, laser measure and receipts and the other for a lunch box.  so i better order a 1 and 4. I have a lot of papers [big grin]

I can buy systainers about 15>20% below Festool  list and claim the Vat as well. So these are very premium price for the UK.

John

 

[windmill man]

Hi,

I feel gutted for Peter , Jonny and all the people who have put themselves out to make this happen.  Sorry guys but things on the cash front are a bit tight , at the moment, for most people. I am sure the orders from UK and Europe would have been much larger under different conditions.

I still want a FOGtainer to show i belong. [smile]

John

 

[jonny round boy]

With hind sight it may have been better to have them printed at source and sent out from their

John,

That was the original idea, or at least it was from my side. I think Peter looked into having Tanos themselves do the printing, but the minimum order was not realistic for this project (IIRC it was a minimum of 500 systainers).

 

[mouppe]

Can I bring anyone in the UK a fogtainer or two when I come over in November? I will take it on the plane as hand luggage, with my real hand luggage inside. I am only coming for a few days and do not really have time to arrange shipping from England but I will be staying in West Hampstead (North-West London) if that is convenient for anybody. You can buy it through Peter and have it shipped with the fogtainers I have already ordered. I reckon I can manage 2 x sys 2 or sys 3 on the plane.

I am flying on November 17th so Peter will have to get them to me by then. I know it won't make much of a dent in the overall order but it could help somebody.

Richard.

 

[ossietim]

Are you sure there is not a minumum threshold for  taxes?
I know here in Australia anything from the U.S.A is only liable for taxes(value added) and duty/customs if it's over  A$1000.

USPS freight costs for  Sys 1+2+3. works out about  US$ 98 (paid online) for Priority Mail International TO THE U.K!!!

24lbs. dimensions  20"x15"x14"

Johnny round boy if your invoice(order) cannot exceed GBP 135 .Then organise with peter to bring in 2 or 3 smaller orders .
Try USPS they are by way the cheapest and safe.

http://www.usps.com/tools/calculatepostage/welcome.htm

1.destination country
2.Large package
3.put in the size.(dimesions)
4.price.(i always go: Priority Mail International)

 

[jonny round boy]

Are you sure there is not a minumum threshold for  taxes?
I know here in Australia anything from the U.S.A is only liable for taxes(value added) and duty/customs if it's over  A$1000.

USPS freight costs for  Sys 1+2+3. works out about  US$ 98 (paid online) for Priority Mail International TO THE U.K!!!

24lbs. dimensions  20"x15"x14"

Johnny round boy if your invoice(order) cannot exceed GBP 135 .Then organise with peter to bring in 2 or 3 smaller orders .
Try USPS they are by way the cheapest and safe.

http://www.usps.com/tools/calculatepostage/welcome.htm

1.destination country
2.Large package
3.put in the size.(dimesions)
4.price.(i always go: Priority Mail International)

[thanks]

Tim, you're a star!!!

Thanks for posting that. That is (for some reason) a different USPS calculator than I was using. I did state in my original post that USPS would be reasonable, but the site I looked at had a lower weight limit. Through this link you can get quotes for shipping several systainers.

I take back everything I said about bulk shipping - if you're in the UK, use Tim's link for pricing. Note that it doesn't include any insurance. It states that is an optional extra, but I haven't found details for that yet. To get a quote including insurance, select the chosen service & click 'add extra services'. Select insurance, and add the insurance value. It's very reasonable (for the quick test I just did for 2xSys2's and a sys1, it was less than $5.00!!!).

And Tim, thanks again!

Edit: In light of this Tim, your signature is very apt:

"It is "Know-how" which distinguishes the USEFUL Person from the "USELESS"" [embarassed]

 

[tbellemare]

Jonny:

I mentioned in an earlier thread that there are documents to be included when shipping out of country. There are some customs documents that are required when shipping to Europe and it might help Peter out if they were prepared by the buyer. He's going to have a pile of paperwork otherwise.

'Just a thought, he's already done a monumental amount of work.

BTW: If I ship to Europe or even Canada, which I do on rare occasion, USPS Priority Mail Intl is generally the way to go.

Tom

 

[jonny round boy]

Jonny:

I mentioned in an earlier thread that there are documents to be included when shipping out of country. There are some customs documents that are required when shipping to Europe and it might help Peter out if they were prepared by the buyer. He's going to have a pile of paperwork otherwise.

'Just a thought, he's already done a monumental amount of work.

Tom,

I agree 100% - anything I can do to make Peter's job easier is fine by me!

 

[peter halle]

I have been absent from this thread but I want to say THANK YOU to Jonathan and everyone in the U.K. for whatever support they can provide to this project.  I knew that shipping and taxes might make participation less from the other side of the pond.

Yes, as Tom said, the customs forms need to be filled out by hand or by typewriter.  Yuck!  The guy at the post office looked at me like I was a nut when I asked him for 50 of the forms.  He had to go find them.

A statement was made earlier about it might have been cheaper to have them printed at the source and then distributed directly.  I did investigate having the systainers printed in Europe.  There was a separate set up charge for each size and a minimum quantity of each size that would have killed this project.  Furthermore, distribution would not have been possible.

I wish it could have happened.  It would have resulted in lower costs in Europe.

Peter