For all you new Rotex users.....A public service announcement

[Paul G]

Edit: For the record, at no point in my previous post did I advocate hanging a sander up and letting it run non-stop for 8 hours. What I did say is that based on information shared with me, there is a period of time where the tool is not at its maximum performance level due to the brushes not being fully seated. Just normal use is adequate to take care of this. I did mention that technique, sander speed, using a low grit, working on an extremely uneven or narrow surface, and even potentially suction can contribute to issues.

I don't take tools apart, but the brush I was shown from an RO 150 REQ was about 4" long and square on the ends. That was in summer of 2011.

Shane

That's all I needed to read!

I didn't take that as a warning not to either, nor am I suggesting Shane needs to take a side on this beyond what he's already stated.

If Festool thought we had to "break-in" our sanders I'm sure they would've told us. In the end, it's your sander.
If you simply use your sander the way it's meant to be used it'll "break-in" without a hanging  and you'll be "making your gears happy."

Well I'll have an idea if my gears are happier tomorrow.  [big grin] As I was saying earlier, I had noticed my RO90 was more squirrelly than my other random sanders. I had kinda assumed that is just the way it is in random mode until I came across this thread. I think more is being made of the "gears getting happy" remark than what was intended by it. I doubt anyone is thinking there is some emotional response going on, it's a figure of speech.

 

[Paul G]

There are similar urban legends around snowboards and bicycles and all other fun things in life. The important part is to enjoy them.

New car engine break in periods comes to mind also, a huge mix of manufacturer recommendations (or lack thereof), urban legends, old wives tales and uncle Chuck the auto mechanics advise.

 

[Scott B.]

Edit: For the record, at no point in my previous post did I advocate hanging a sander up and letting it run non-stop for 8 hours. What I did say is that based on information shared with me, there is a period of time where the tool is not at its maximum performance level due to the brushes not being fully seated. Just normal use is adequate to take care of this. I did mention that technique, sander speed, using a low grit, working on an extremely uneven or narrow surface, and even potentially suction can contribute to issues.

I don't take tools apart, but the brush I was shown from an RO 150 REQ was about 4" long and square on the ends. That was in summer of 2011.

Shane

That's all I needed to read!

I didn't take that as a warning not to either, nor am I suggesting Shane needs to take a side on this beyond what he's already stated.

If Festool thought we had to "break-in" our sanders I'm sure they would've told us. In the end, it's your sander.
If you simply use your sander the way it's meant to be used it'll "break-in" without a hanging  and you'll be "making your gears happy."

Well I'll have an idea if my gears are happier tomorrow.  [big grin] As I was saying earlier, I had noticed my RO90 was more squirrelly than my other random sanders. I had kinda assumed that is just the way it is in random mode until I came across this thread. I think more is being made of the "gears getting happy" remark than what was intended by it. I doubt anyone is thinking there is some emotional response going on, it's a figure of speech.

The RO90 feels squirrelier than the larger Rotexes. Pound for pound it is more of a little beast on a smaller diameter. It's not a "floater". I talk to guys who go from the ets125 to the RO90 and don't know whether to be psyched or scared after the maiden voyage. We all grew up on 5" sanders that were $60 tools.

The RO90 does turn into a nice lightweight powerhouse for sanding, and you can get to the point of one handed finish sanding in orbital mode. It is more a matter of the user getting in the flow than the sander, I would think.

It is good that you point out that they are tools, and there is really no emotion in them.

 

[Kev]

I have a solution for everyone ... bring your brand new ROTEX sanders over to my place - I'll supply you with all the abrasive paper you need to run in your sander, as you sand back the paint on my house [wink]

 

[Paul G]

Well I'll have an idea if my gears are happier tomorrow.  [big grin] As I was saying earlier, I had noticed my RO90 was more squirrelly than my other random sanders. I had kinda assumed that is just the way it is in random mode until I came across this thread. I think more is being made of the "gears getting happy" remark than what was intended by it. I doubt anyone is thinking there is some emotional response going on, it's a figure of speech.

The RO90 feels squirrelier than the larger Rotexes. Pound for pound it is more of a little beast on a smaller diameter. It's not a "floater". I talk to guys who go from the ets125 to the RO90 and don't know whether to be psyched or scared after the maiden voyage. We all grew up on 5" sanders that were $60 tools.

The RO90 does turn into a nice lightweight powerhouse for sanding, and you can get to the point of one handed finish sanding in orbital mode. It is more a matter of the user getting in the flow than the sander, I would think.

It is good that you point out that they are tools, and there is really no emotion in them.

Thanks for that comparison info Scott, good to know some other folks had similar first impressions. I turn to the RO90 often, but not nearly as many hours behind the wheel as you. Further complicating matters is I switch it's use a lot since it's such a great multitasker. My abrasives box has 40 - 4000 grits plus polishing pads. A great DIYers tool.

 

[Paul G]

I have a solution for everyone ... bring your brand new ROTEX sanders over to my place - I'll supply you with all the abrasive paper you need to run in your sander, as you sand back the paint on my house [wink]

Send the tickets and I'm there  [big grin]

 

[Scott B.]

Well I'll have an idea if my gears are happier tomorrow.  [big grin] As I was saying earlier, I had noticed my RO90 was more squirrelly than my other random sanders. I had kinda assumed that is just the way it is in random mode until I came across this thread. I think more is being made of the "gears getting happy" remark than what was intended by it. I doubt anyone is thinking there is some emotional response going on, it's a figure of speech.

The RO90 feels squirrelier than the larger Rotexes. Pound for pound it is more of a little beast on a smaller diameter. It's not a "floater". I talk to guys who go from the ets125 to the RO90 and don't know whether to be psyched or scared after the maiden voyage. We all grew up on 5" sanders that were $60 tools.

The RO90 does turn into a nice lightweight powerhouse for sanding, and you can get to the point of one handed finish sanding in orbital mode. It is more a matter of the user getting in the flow than the sander, I would think.

It is good that you point out that they are tools, and there is really no emotion in them.

Thanks for that comparison info Scott, good to know some other folks had similar first impressions. I turn to the RO90 often, but nearly as many hours behind the wheel as you. Further complicating matters is I switch it's use a lot since it's such a great multitasker. My abrasives box has 40 - 4000 grits plus polishing pads. A great DIYers tool.

Its a quirky little tool, but really simple once you get to know it.

There is a psychology about it, which basically shakes down to the user getting their head around the tool, but its all manifested physically. The most nervous/intimidated users tend to try to over power the tool. You really can't. If you fight it, it will win. Concede that, and the tool rolls over (symbolically, not literally).

[big grin]

 

[NYC Tiny Shop]

Scott,
Your poetic impressions of the Rotex 90 caught my attention.   I, too, own and love my ETS 125 and am planning on ordering the Rotex 90, tomorrow.  Your's was similar to my impression of the Rotex 90 (based on youtube videos. I have never used the tool.)  I'm hoping that it will not only allow me to sand edges and corners cleanly (I've always done this by hand) but, will also be an efficient sander for the quick removal of material with the quality of dust collection attained with my ETS 125.

 

[John Stevens]

There are similar urban legends around snowboards and bicycles....

Yeah, the original post reminded me of what some of my fellow Campagnolo enthusiasts used to say about Campy Ergo shifters when they first came out in the early/mid '90s.

Thank you Rich Christopherson and Shane Holland for bringing some facts to this speculative thread.

--John

 

[greg mann]

There are similar urban legends around snowboards and bicycles and all other fun things in life. The important part is to enjoy them.

New car engine break in periods comes to mind also, a huge mix of manufacturer recommendations (or lack thereof), urban legends, old wives tales and uncle Chuck the auto mechanics advise.

The comparison to engine break-ins is probably a good one. When I was a teenager, many years ago, Hot Rod magazine did an article about an engine rebuild in which the issue of a proper break-in technique was discussed. They referred to the many difference opinions there were ("ask a hundred mechanics and you will get a hundred different answers."). They then suggested a technique and also suggested you "add this one to the list of those that work." I often use that phrase when I teach new machine operators how to adjust a boring tool to proper size. Maybe Eric just needs to point out that his technique worked for him. Come to think of it, I believe he did.

 

[dicktill]

Hi all,

Hate to see this ending up in a pissing contest.

Eric has done many great informative videos and postings, and is a great asset to this forum ... as is Rick Christopherson with his great manuals and postings. And there are many other gifted contributors. Let's just agree that there are differences of opinions (but hey, we all love Festools, eh?), drop the whole thing, and get back to making sawdust ... please!

Regards, Dick

edit: P.S.: Should have included Scott B. and so many others to the list ...

 

[leakyroof]

Well I'll have an idea if my gears are happier tomorrow.  [big grin] As I was saying earlier, I had noticed my RO90 was more squirrelly than my other random sanders. I had kinda assumed that is just the way it is in random mode until I came across this thread. I think more is being made of the "gears getting happy" remark than what was intended by it. I doubt anyone is thinking there is some emotional response going on, it's a figure of speech.

The RO90 feels squirrelier than the larger Rotexes. Pound for pound it is more of a little beast on a smaller diameter. It's not a "floater". I talk to guys who go from the ets125 to the RO90 and don't know whether to be psyched or scared after the maiden voyage. We all grew up on 5" sanders that were $60 tools.

The RO90 does turn into a nice lightweight powerhouse for sanding, and you can get to the point of one handed finish sanding in orbital mode. It is more a matter of the user getting in the flow than the sander, I would think.

It is good that you point out that they are tools, and there is really no emotion in them.

Thanks for that comparison info Scott, good to know some other folks had similar first impressions. I turn to the RO90 often, but nearly as many hours behind the wheel as you. Further complicating matters is I switch it's use a lot since it's such a great multitasker. My abrasives box has 40 - 4000 grits plus polishing pads. A great DIYers tool.

Its a quirky little tool, but really simple once you get to know it.

There is a psychology about it, which basically shakes down to the user getting their head around the tool, but its all manifested physically. The most nervous/intimidated users tend to try to over power the tool. You really can't. If you fight it, it will win. Concede that, and the tool rolls over (symbolically, not literally).

[big grin]

. Okay, but to answer my RO90 question, I've used the sander quite a bit, way more than 8 hours, and the aggressiness of its pad brake while in Random Orbit and using a lower speed is annoying. Any thoughts Scott? Or others?

 

[Scott B.]

LR

I always run it with the motor speed cranked, regardless of mode. The rest depends on grit and what you are sanding. It does help to turn the extraction down as much as half. The best advice I can give, especially in orbital mode which I find to be pretty consistent and friendly (having used several different RO90s), is to use a lighter touch. Its random, but it does have a pattern to it. Look for that, its actually a "feel" thing. Sometimes when you run "with" the pattern that the tool prefers, it can be very smooth and floaty. If you run opposite the inclination of the sander, you can get a more robust scuff. A good way to experiment with it is to put 220 on in orbital mode on 2'x2' square of cabinet grade plywood. Turn the speed on the sander up, and experiment with the how reducing the extraction rate changes the feel at the surface.

These are things that I do before taking a sander that I am less familiar with out into the field.

I think the best way I can describe it with the RO90 is just to keep in mind that its a powerful sander on an unconventional (small) diameter. Thrown in some chassis imbalance due to its design, and - unlike the ets/rts/dts - it is more the responsibility of the operator to create balance at the surface. Alot of times, I see users who have trouble creating that balance with a soft touch, so they try to force the balance by applying too much downforce.

Orbital is the mode I use the least for these reasons with the RO90. It's great in a pinch - especially because of its size, but given the choice, I grab a true orbital every time because they are better balanced, shorter stroked, and easier to float with. To me, finish sanding has to be able to be done evenly with a one handed floating technique. I always need my other hand to be feeling the surface at the same time I am sanding, so I can feel how it is going. This is when I am sanding 180 and above, finish sanding.

In rougher material removal sanding, its all visual from 40 on up to 120. Feel isn't that important, so I don't mind whaling out with a 2 handed style.

I use the 90 by far more in its more aggressive, gear driven mode, and of course in delta. If it doesn't turn out to be your ideal orbital sander, I wouldn't sweat it. Just consider that its #3 superpower.

What makes this a valuable discussion, regardless of one's stance on the break in period for sanders, is that it is a good reminder that sanding is an important discipline, and so understanding all aspects of the the tools and abrasives, not just themselves, but what to use, when, where, for how long, etc is important to work toward.

It is the most important part of the finishing process.

 

[Administrator_JSVN]

Ok, so some additional information on the brushes in the RO 150 FEQ. I've attached a photo of one below. Either I was shown a brush from another tool or my memory is failing, which is entirely possible, when I reported that it was close to 4". This brush assembly is about 1-1/2" instead based on the measurements I was provided. Maybe the brush I referenced seeing in my earlier post was intended to serve as an example but the topic was about sanders specifically. Sorry if the information I gave before was not 100% accurate.

I checked with the service department on this matter. As I assumed, the tools are designed to be ready to run out of the box. There is a break in period as discussed before, which should occur under normal use and no special procedure is needed for this to happen. The change in performance may vary from tool to tool based on what I was told, but is likely going to be negligible due to brush wear-in. Also, the brushes are serrated which helps them conform to the motor components quicker than if they were solid.

I really think the topic of benefits or lack thereof for break-in is one that can be debated to no end. As I advised before, if you're having performance or usability issues, please contact us for assistance to help determine the cause and we can offer a remedy on a case-by-case. In all likelihood, if you're experiencing a problem, it's more likely one of the other things that I listed that's the potential cause.

Shane

[attachimg=#]

 

[Michael Kellough]

Ok, so some additional information on the brushes in the RO 150 FEQ. I've attached a photo of one below. Either I was shown a brush from another tool or my memory is failing, which is entirely possible, when I reported that it was close to 4". This brush assembly is about 1-1/2" instead based on the measurements I was provided. Maybe the brush I referenced seeing in my earlier post was intended to serve as an example but the topic was about sanders specifically. Sorry if the information I gave before was not 100% accurate.

I checked with the service department on this matter. As I assumed, the tools are designed to be ready to run out of the box. There is a break in period as discussed before, which should occur under normal use and no special procedure is needed for this to happen. The change in performance may vary from tool to tool based on what I was told, but is likely going to be negligible due to brush wear-in. Also, the brushes are serrated which helps them conform to the motor components quicker than if they were solid.

I really think the topic of benefits or lack thereof for break-in is one that can be debated to no end. As I advised before, if you're having performance or usability issues, please contact us for assistance to help determine the cause and we can offer a remedy on a case-by-case. In all likelihood, if you're experiencing a problem, it's more likely one of the other things that I listed that's the potential cause.

Shane

[attachimg=#]

I came close to bugging you about this yesterday but I thought maybe you're including the length of the wire. That would have made the sander nearly 9" in diameter at the motor housing.

 

[Administrator_JSVN]

I came close to bugging you about this yesterday but I thought maybe you're including the length of the wire. That would have made the sander nearly 9" in diameter at the motor housing.

For the record...

Things that I'm not:

- Electrical Engineer
- Service Repair Person
- Adult Film Star

[eek]

Don't mind admitting when I make a mistake. It happens.

 

[leakyroof]

LR

I always run it with the motor speed cranked, regardless of mode. The rest depends on grit and what you are sanding. It does help to turn the extraction down as much as half. The best advice I can give, especially in orbital mode which I find to be pretty consistent and friendly (having used several different RO90s), is to use a lighter touch. Its random, but it does have a pattern to it. Look for that, its actually a "feel" thing. Sometimes when you run "with" the pattern that the tool prefers, it can be very smooth and floaty. If you run opposite the inclination of the sander, you can get a more robust scuff. A good way to experiment with it is to put 220 on in orbital mode on 2'x2' square of cabinet grade plywood. Turn the speed on the sander up, and experiment with the how reducing the extraction rate changes the feel at the surface.

These are things that I do before taking a sander that I am less familiar with out into the field.

I think the best way I can describe it with the RO90 is just to keep in mind that its a powerful sander on an unconventional (small) diameter. Thrown in some chassis imbalance due to its design, and - unlike the ets/rts/dts - it is more the responsibility of the operator to create balance at the surface. Alot of times, I see users who have trouble creating that balance with a soft touch, so they try to force the balance by applying too much downforce.

Orbital is the mode I use the least for these reasons with the RO90. It's great in a pinch - especially because of its size, but given the choice, I grab a true orbital every time because they are better balanced, shorter stroked, and easier to float with. To me, finish sanding has to be able to be done evenly with a one handed floating technique. I always need my other hand to be feeling the surface at the same time I am sanding, so I can feel how it is going. This is when I am sanding 180 and above, finish sanding.

In rougher material removal sanding, its all visual from 40 on up to 120. Feel isn't that important, so I don't mind whaling out with a 2 handed style.

I use the 90 by far more in its more aggressive, gear driven mode, and of course in delta. If it doesn't turn out to be your ideal orbital sander, I wouldn't sweat it. Just consider that its #3 superpower.

What makes this a valuable discussion, regardless of one's stance on the break in period for sanders, is that it is a good reminder that sanding is an important discipline, and so understanding all aspects of the the tools and abrasives, not just themselves, but what to use, when, where, for how long, etc is important to work toward.

It is the most important part of the finishing process.

  Thank YOU Scott, but I should have explained my issue further. The pad almost stops rotating in Random Orbit mode, and for the one time that I removed the Pad Brake and lightly sanded  it, things improved for a short time, then returned back to a barely rotating sander pad in Random Orbit mode. I've never experienced this with any Random Orbit Sander that I've used or owned in either electric or pneumatic version. I tend to use my RO 90 in Rotex mode or Delta mostly, so this isn't a deal breaker, nor have I been frustrated enough to send it next door to Indiana/Festool HQ. I also haven't run the sander without the brake as a test, but I don't think I'd go that far right now anyway

 

[festnoob]

Ok, so some additional information on the brushes in the RO 150 FEQ. I've attached a photo of one below. Either I was shown a brush from another tool or my memory is failing, which is entirely possible, when I reported that it was close to 4". This brush assembly is about 1-1/2" instead based on the measurements I was provided. Maybe the brush I referenced seeing in my earlier post was intended to serve as an example but the topic was about sanders specifically. Sorry if the information I gave before was not 100% accurate.

I checked with the service department on this matter. As I assumed, the tools are designed to be ready to run out of the box. There is a break in period as discussed before, which should occur under normal use and no special procedure is needed for this to happen. The change in performance may vary from tool to tool based on what I was told, but is likely going to be negligible due to brush wear-in. Also, the brushes are serrated which helps them conform to the motor components quicker than if they were solid.

I really think the topic of benefits or lack thereof for break-in is one that can be debated to no end. As I advised before, if you're having performance or usability issues, please contact us for assistance to help determine the cause and we can offer a remedy on a case-by-case. In all likelihood, if you're experiencing a problem, it's more likely one of the other things that I listed that's the potential cause.

Shane

[attachimg=#]

Hey Shane, thanks for digging into this for us.

 

[Jmaichel]

I decided to email Festool USA support to see what they had to say about sander "break in" and here is the response that I received from Lester at Festool:

"Most complex mechanical products, such as power tools, have a break in period.  The question is whether they require a special break in procedure upon initial use. Festool products do not require users to perform a break in procedure, they are ready to use out of the box."

Hope this clears a few things up, I know it does for me at least!

James

 

[festnoob]

I decided to email Festool USA support to see what they had to say about sander "break in" and here is the response that I received from Lester at Festool:

"Most complex mechanical products, such as power tools, have a break in period.  The question is whether they require a special break in procedure upon initial use. Festool products do not require users to perform a break in procedure, they are ready to use out of the box."

Hope this clears a few things up, I know it does for me at least!

James

[thumbs up] I think Lester meant to say, "ready to use out of the Systainer."