Brice Burrell
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Daviddubya said:
Darn, I'd go with larger post fonts.
Forum Re-Design
- Thread starter Matthew Schenker
- Start date
Darn, I'd go with larger post fonts.
Matthew Schenker
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semenza said:
There was an alternating color in the original design, but it was removed in my initial testing. I also like that alternating color scheme, so I'll add it back in momentarily! Keep checking the test site to see the changes.
semenza said:
I'm not sure how such a graphic would look, but I might give it a try later on, when the other elements are in place. It might give the forum more of a Festool-oriented theme. Stay tuned on this.
Matthew
Matt, I have not had time to wade thru all of the very interresting replies. I have not taken the time to check the new format. i barely have time right now to insert my own reply. Eventually, I will address all of these issues.
I do want to make one comment, even tho it does not address the actual format.
I have always been very impressed with the amount of effort you, personally, have put into the developement of this very wonderful and functional site. I have been a participant of other WW forums over as many years as I have had internet capability. Most recently, I had been involved for all of those years with a forum developed by one of the WW magazines that I had subscribed to for an even longer time. Within the past year, they redid the forum amid many kudos from members who indicated their excited anticipation.
When the forum went into its newer metomorphosis, I suddenly discovered I could no longer communicate. I tried everything including sending notes to the mag itself. No replies and no positive results. Eventually, another member who was having the same problem managed somehow to put in his own complaint to the forum. His complaint exactly matched my own problems. The reply was to disconnect all of the cookies, or something like that (I am not a computer expert, so that was not an option for me as i do not know how to reconnect. I have been thru that and required help to reorganize my computer. NOT fun AND expensive). The guy replied with about the same observation as I have related about my own situation. The reply from the forom troubleshooting host was to replace his Mac with a PC. I did have E- for some of the other forum members and sent personal notes which were then relayed to forum hosts. NEVER have I received any reply from those hosts or from the mag itself. I can still access and I have noticed the absence of several other "previous" members. I can see they do not, in any way, care.
This rather long post is not meant to point out what I perceive as a deficiency of some other forums, but rather to point out how much I admire your own hard work, patience and, above all, your compassion to try to get this thing as near to perfect as possible for all. An impossible task, but I. for one, am most appreciative. I have total confidence that you will get it right. As my old HS shop teacher used to say, "There is no s'ch thin' es gud'n'nuff, it's gotta be purfeck." I think you will get it there, and then still keep tweaking.
Tinker
I do want to make one comment, even tho it does not address the actual format.
I have always been very impressed with the amount of effort you, personally, have put into the developement of this very wonderful and functional site. I have been a participant of other WW forums over as many years as I have had internet capability. Most recently, I had been involved for all of those years with a forum developed by one of the WW magazines that I had subscribed to for an even longer time. Within the past year, they redid the forum amid many kudos from members who indicated their excited anticipation.
When the forum went into its newer metomorphosis, I suddenly discovered I could no longer communicate. I tried everything including sending notes to the mag itself. No replies and no positive results. Eventually, another member who was having the same problem managed somehow to put in his own complaint to the forum. His complaint exactly matched my own problems. The reply was to disconnect all of the cookies, or something like that (I am not a computer expert, so that was not an option for me as i do not know how to reconnect. I have been thru that and required help to reorganize my computer. NOT fun AND expensive). The guy replied with about the same observation as I have related about my own situation. The reply from the forom troubleshooting host was to replace his Mac with a PC. I did have E- for some of the other forum members and sent personal notes which were then relayed to forum hosts. NEVER have I received any reply from those hosts or from the mag itself. I can still access and I have noticed the absence of several other "previous" members. I can see they do not, in any way, care.
This rather long post is not meant to point out what I perceive as a deficiency of some other forums, but rather to point out how much I admire your own hard work, patience and, above all, your compassion to try to get this thing as near to perfect as possible for all. An impossible task, but I. for one, am most appreciative. I have total confidence that you will get it right. As my old HS shop teacher used to say, "There is no s'ch thin' es gud'n'nuff, it's gotta be purfeck." I think you will get it there, and then still keep tweaking.
Tinker
Daviddubya
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- Jan 22, 2007
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- 704
Tinker - I am a participant in the forum you referenced. It is a wonderful advantage here to be able to preview the new forum design and make comments that are then implemented. Unfortunately, such a "beta" testing period was not available on the other forum, and the format, navigation and speed still leave a lot to be desired. In their defense, they are a part of a much larger corporation that runs many forums under the same software. Then again it would seem that a large corporation could have done a much better job of getting it right. Oh well. Good job here, Matthew.
ps - A comment about the banner that shows up now in Test (one with no tools). Fade to black on a black background is not effective, IMHO. And the sub-heading (Discussions and Multi....) is dim. The white announcements on the right side of the banner show up well though. I wish I had some graphics talent so I could help, but all I can do is comment.
pps - It looks to me like there are several different fonts being used on the Test pages. One lesson I learned from a web graphic artist was to minimize the number of different fonts on a page. Too many fonts confuse the eyes. Example - the font for the navigation buttons (Home, Help...) is different from the font for the thread control buttons (Mark Read, Notify...). I would think the pages would look better if all of the button fonts were the same font.
ps - A comment about the banner that shows up now in Test (one with no tools). Fade to black on a black background is not effective, IMHO. And the sub-heading (Discussions and Multi....) is dim. The white announcements on the right side of the banner show up well though. I wish I had some graphics talent so I could help, but all I can do is comment.
pps - It looks to me like there are several different fonts being used on the Test pages. One lesson I learned from a web graphic artist was to minimize the number of different fonts on a page. Too many fonts confuse the eyes. Example - the font for the navigation buttons (Home, Help...) is different from the font for the thread control buttons (Mark Read, Notify...). I would think the pages would look better if all of the button fonts were the same font.
David, the big difference here is that everybody involved is not only interrested in their tools, but also the people who are visiting, whether every day, or occasionally. It is a great feeling to become involved with such a group and to know that those with the wherewithall to keep it together are trying to satisfy all.
Tinker
Tinker
Matthew Schenker
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Daviddubya said:
As you mention, the idea here is in fact to have a "beta" period, where people can get accustomed to the new design, and help make sure everything works. It also allows everyone to participate in the formation of that design, which is in line with my idea of making the Festool Owners Group as open and member-driven as possible.
Daviddubya said:ps - A comment about the banner that shows up now in Test (one with no tools). Fade to black on a black background is not effective, IMHO. And the sub-heading (Discussions and Multi....) is dim. The white announcements on the right side of the banner show up well though. I wish I had some graphics talent so I could help, but all I can do is comment.
I think this might be something for the logo designer, in this case Brice. If you want, David, post the same comments over in the Logo Contest discussion.
Daviddubya said:
Good eye on the fonts! OK, the forum in general uses Verdana. I believe I set Verdana to be everywhere in the forum, except the main menu. For a sort of esoteric technical reason, the main menu needs to use Trebuchet font. If you see something else in the forum not using Verdana, please tell me and I will correct it.
Thanks,
Matthew
- Joined
- Jun 24, 2007
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"Good eye on the fonts! OK, the forum in general uses Verdana. I believe I set Verdana to be everywhere in the forum, except the main menu. For a sort of esoteric technical reason, the main menu needs to use Trebuchet font. If you see something else in the forum not using Verdana, please tell me and I will correct it."
No, No , I don't think we need to be throwing any cows here!
Seth
No, No , I don't think we need to be throwing any cows here!
Seth
Some points on the font sizes...
First, unless I'm missing something, this is related to the custom themes only. I.e., when you change the font size (text sizes) in IE with a custom theme, the font sizes do NOT change. Change to other new themes, and you'll see that it's the same.
However, if you change back to the "SMF Default Theme" ("Profile --> Look and Layout Preferences --> Change"), you'll notice that the fonts change consistently and normally. I like the new themes much better (especially the current theme on the Test website), but I like the adjustable font sizes in the default theme.
Second, there is another alternative - "Accessibility" options. In IE7, you can set it to make font sizes easier to read. It's there for people with high resolution monitors (many people nowadays) or people with vision problems. To change it from the IE7 menu:
1) Go to "Tools --> Internet Options --> Accessiblity". ("Accessibility" is in the lower right corner of the "Internet Options" screen.
2) Click the "Accessiblity" button. The "Accessiblity" window will open.
3) "Check" the option, "Ignore font sizes specified on webpages."
4) Click "OK", then "OK".
Notice that font size options now work regardless of what is hard-coded in a theme.
Some webpages use hard-coded font sizes. Some don't. With "Ignore font sizes specified on webpages" checked, you control the font sizes.
Unfortunately, there is a downside with "Ignore font sizes specified on webpages" checked. You may see that some pages get distorted, tool bar buttons don't work as expected, and menu items can do strange things. It's a tradeoff.
Personally, I don't like hard-coded font sizes because they are too small to read with my older eyes and high-res monitors. I normally just leave "Ignore font sizes specified on webpages" checked and accept the negatives.
YMMV.
Regards,
Dan.
First, unless I'm missing something, this is related to the custom themes only. I.e., when you change the font size (text sizes) in IE with a custom theme, the font sizes do NOT change. Change to other new themes, and you'll see that it's the same.
However, if you change back to the "SMF Default Theme" ("Profile --> Look and Layout Preferences --> Change"), you'll notice that the fonts change consistently and normally. I like the new themes much better (especially the current theme on the Test website), but I like the adjustable font sizes in the default theme.
Second, there is another alternative - "Accessibility" options. In IE7, you can set it to make font sizes easier to read. It's there for people with high resolution monitors (many people nowadays) or people with vision problems. To change it from the IE7 menu:
1) Go to "Tools --> Internet Options --> Accessiblity". ("Accessibility" is in the lower right corner of the "Internet Options" screen.
2) Click the "Accessiblity" button. The "Accessiblity" window will open.
3) "Check" the option, "Ignore font sizes specified on webpages."
4) Click "OK", then "OK".
Notice that font size options now work regardless of what is hard-coded in a theme.
Some webpages use hard-coded font sizes. Some don't. With "Ignore font sizes specified on webpages" checked, you control the font sizes.
Unfortunately, there is a downside with "Ignore font sizes specified on webpages" checked. You may see that some pages get distorted, tool bar buttons don't work as expected, and menu items can do strange things. It's a tradeoff.
Personally, I don't like hard-coded font sizes because they are too small to read with my older eyes and high-res monitors. I normally just leave "Ignore font sizes specified on webpages" checked and accept the negatives.
YMMV.
Regards,
Dan.
Dan Clark said:
I agree with Dan, to the point that I'd say any theme that won't allow the user to vary the text size is unacceptable.
As un-fond as I am of IE, I still think that a website must work properly with that Microsoft browser.
That said, with Windows/FireFox, I don't see any problem with the current-at-this-moment design. I can adjust the font size on both the main page and the help page. Dan, am I not looking in the right place, or is this an IE-specific problem?
BTW, is anyone out there routinely using Opera? I'd like to know how the new site works for you.
Ned
Mathew,
The one feature of the current forum that I use everyday is the choice at the top to "show unread posts since last visit." With the new forum I can't tell whether that feature remains. I see that the icon will indicate which messages are new but can't tell whether you can just show only the new posts. I hope you can retain the current feature.
Thanks for all your efforts
Carl Schellenberg
The one feature of the current forum that I use everyday is the choice at the top to "show unread posts since last visit." With the new forum I can't tell whether that feature remains. I see that the icon will indicate which messages are new but can't tell whether you can just show only the new posts. I hope you can retain the current feature.
Thanks for all your efforts
Carl Schellenberg
Brice Burrell
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- 7,385
Bill Elliott said:
Log in with
user name: test
password: test
Daviddubya
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- Jan 22, 2007
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- 704
Carl Schellenberg said:
Carl - Look in the upper right corner - "Show unread..." is there.
Ned,Ned Young said:
It looks like this may be an IE specific problem. I'm going to install Firefox again to see how it works.
The market share numbers are not clear, but it looks like Internet Explorer has something like 67% of the market and Firefox has 16%. While IE lost about 1.8% of the market in 2007, Firefox gained 1.6%.
I believe that FOG font sizes should work equally well in both browsers.
After I get Firefox installed, I'll compare IE and Firefox and report back.
Regards,
Dan.
OK. I installed Firefox. So now I have FF2 and IE7 installed side by side. I have maybe 30 minutes experience with FF2. So far I'm impressed.
I'll compare FOG Test in both browsers later. Here are some first impressions of FF2 vs IE7 in general:
FF2 vs IE7 in general:
IE7 beats FF2:
- The biggest issue I can see with FF2 is that fonts are not smooth. They have jaggies. IE fonts are smooth and more readable. (Since I'm a newbie at FF2, there may be an option to change this and I just don't know it.)
- The second biggest issue I see with FF2 is that the + and - keys don't have quite enough granularity in the larger font sizes. At one point, the font is bit too large and the next font size down is a bit too small.
FF2 beats IE7:
- Pretty much everything else. I.e., I like almost every other feature in FF2 more than IE7.
- Most specifically, I like the font size control MUCH better in FF2. For someone with vision problems or a high res monitor, FF2 font size control is much easier. Because you can change the font size VERY quickly in FF2, it becomes much less of an issue. Clicking + and - is in FF2 is MUCH faster than clicking the font size menu item in IE7.
FOG Test font and other deferences - IE7 vs FF2 - Here is a quick sample screen shot of the text from one FOG-Test post:
[attachthumb=#]
The top is from IE7 and the second two are from FF2. Overall, I like the smooth fonts and readability from IE7 better.
IMO, if there is a way to smooth the fonts in FF2 and the larger fonts can be incrementally sized a little better, then FF2 would be the perfect browser.
Dan.
I'll compare FOG Test in both browsers later. Here are some first impressions of FF2 vs IE7 in general:
FF2 vs IE7 in general:
IE7 beats FF2:
- The biggest issue I can see with FF2 is that fonts are not smooth. They have jaggies. IE fonts are smooth and more readable. (Since I'm a newbie at FF2, there may be an option to change this and I just don't know it.)
- The second biggest issue I see with FF2 is that the + and - keys don't have quite enough granularity in the larger font sizes. At one point, the font is bit too large and the next font size down is a bit too small.
FF2 beats IE7:
- Pretty much everything else. I.e., I like almost every other feature in FF2 more than IE7.
- Most specifically, I like the font size control MUCH better in FF2. For someone with vision problems or a high res monitor, FF2 font size control is much easier. Because you can change the font size VERY quickly in FF2, it becomes much less of an issue. Clicking + and - is in FF2 is MUCH faster than clicking the font size menu item in IE7.
FOG Test font and other deferences - IE7 vs FF2 - Here is a quick sample screen shot of the text from one FOG-Test post:
[attachthumb=#]
The top is from IE7 and the second two are from FF2. Overall, I like the smooth fonts and readability from IE7 better.
IMO, if there is a way to smooth the fonts in FF2 and the larger fonts can be incrementally sized a little better, then FF2 would be the perfect browser.
Dan.
jonny round boy
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Dan,
Clicking + and - also works in IE7.....
Dan--
You running on XP or on Vista? FF on Vista is as crisp as you could want. I suspect IE7 may have font rendering abilities that make it look better on XP, and further suspect that that font rendering is available in the OS on Vista.
Firefox is available on several platforms, so specifying, say, XP/FF2 or Linux/FF2 is useful info.
There are some extremely cool and useful add-ons for FF. Here's what I'm using:
IE Tab makes a tabbed window use the IE rendering engine, useful for those pathetic sites that just won't run right except with IE. I think there's a similar add-on for Safari, for the Mac folks running FF.
Colour Contrast Analyser examines the readability of the currently displayed page.
Web Developer adds a context menu and toolbar with all kinds of goodies for web developers.
I use NoScript and like it; Matthewhates it uses it too(see next post). Extra protection against script-based attacks.
Colorful Tabs is a cosmetic improvement. The browser window tabs are given different colors.
I really hope you become a convert. I'm on sales commision. Let's see, 15 percent of zero is...
Ned
You running on XP or on Vista? FF on Vista is as crisp as you could want. I suspect IE7 may have font rendering abilities that make it look better on XP, and further suspect that that font rendering is available in the OS on Vista.
Firefox is available on several platforms, so specifying, say, XP/FF2 or Linux/FF2 is useful info.
There are some extremely cool and useful add-ons for FF. Here's what I'm using:
IE Tab makes a tabbed window use the IE rendering engine, useful for those pathetic sites that just won't run right except with IE. I think there's a similar add-on for Safari, for the Mac folks running FF.
Colour Contrast Analyser examines the readability of the currently displayed page.
Web Developer adds a context menu and toolbar with all kinds of goodies for web developers.
I use NoScript and like it; Matthew
Colorful Tabs is a cosmetic improvement. The browser window tabs are given different colors.
I really hope you become a convert. I'm on sales commision. Let's see, 15 percent of zero is...
Ned
