Framing and Finish Nailer Opinions

[Greg_R]

I'm about to start on a large home improvement project that will involve significant framing and finish work.  What would people recommend as a framing nailer and as a finish nailer?  It seems that Hitachi is popular (NT65MA2 and NR90AC3 models) and I'm currently leaning that way.  Note: These are 'corded' air tools, I am not interested in cordless models.  Thanks, I look forward to hearing about people's experiences...

 

[Greg_R]

I should also mention that the framing nailer will need to drive nails into engineered lumber and 4x4s (i.e. lots of power is required).

 

[robtonya]

I have a Hitachi NR90AE Nail Gun http://www.medfordtools.com/hitachi/index.html I copied that site because I want to try out the ballistic screws sometime, they are toward the bottom of the page. I like it, but I preffer Bostitch over Hitachi, why, I don't know. I guess because every other gun, and compressor I own is Bostitch. I've read that the Hitatchi is lightest. I actually couldn't use it on my latest project and I wish I had a gun for shooting into metal brackets. That would be something to consider if you plan on using those brackets like the Simpson strong ties.

Finish nailer, I would buy a GREX. I've never heard a bad thing about Grex.

 

[Holzhacker]

Both my Bostitch and Paslode corded have been dropped and banged around a lot and keep shooting. The paslode is a lot lighter than the Bostitch. For average finish nailing I have a pair of Porter Cable shooters. Good enough for average work and really take a beating. Not good enough though for fine finish nailing. Feet and penetration aren't clean enough. Go with Grex.

 

[Greg_R]

So has someone used the Grex Finish nailer or are they basing their recommendations off the quality of the brad nailer? 

Robert, do you know what the difference is between the 90AE and 90AC3 models?  Is it aesthetics or quality of internal parts?  Hitachi's website doesn't have a lot of detail.  The 90AE is lighter and cheaper.

I actually couldn't use it on my latest project and I wish I had a gun for shooting into metal brackets. That would be something to consider if you plan on using those brackets like the Simpson strong ties.

That's a good point about metal fasteners.  I am still planning the project but may be using resilient channel.  With that, there is a concern about correct 'tightness' of the fastener (thus I may be using a screw gun for that + drywall + any metal fasteners).  Something for me to think about...

 

[robtonya]

I don't know the difference. Here is a link to Hitatchi's website http://www.hitachipowertools.com/store_list.php?iDepartmentID=9&arrPath=1,9,

I was wrong on my part number, I actually have the 90AD, the clipped head nailer. I wish I could tell you of how I researched the nailers, and chose this one, but actually I was at a pawn shop, and some Amish people were in there asking what they was giving away today, and they showed them two nailers. They passed on them, but the Hitatchi looked brand new. They said they was returned because someone said it leaked air. I bought it for $15, took it home and it was working fine. I think they got what use they needed out of it, and returned it. The pawn shop doesn't work on the items they have, and cut their losses.

 

[Tim Sproul]

I should also mention that the framing nailer will need to drive nails into engineered lumber and 4x4s (i.e. lots of power is required).

I have a bostitch framing nailer with a 50' 3/8 (not 1/4) hose.  At 100 psi at the compressor it drives 16D flush to LVL material.  Into douglas fir, it has no problems.  Technique, hose diameter, hose length from the pressure gauge, and pressure are more important for driving framing nails than for brads.....framing nailers require a lot more total air volume to work at their full capacity than a brad or 15/16 gauge finish nailers.

If you've only worked with finish nailers, be prepared for a good workout.  Using a framing nailer is a lot easier than hammering but it still requires a good amount of strength and stamina in your forearm.

 

[Brice Burrell]

All of my air nailers are Senco, I've had really good luck with the brand but not everyone has. I have the FramePro 701 (clipped head nails), drives nails nicely and it's reasonably light. Tim's right you need a 3/8" hose and fittings. Another piece of advice about buying framing nailers, if you're in earthquake and hurricane prone areas like the West Coast or Florida you should look at nailers that shoot full round head nails, not clipped head nails. I'm not sure but full round head nails may be needed to meet code.

As for finish nailers, well there are a lot of choices. Some guys were real big on Hitatchi others Bostitch, again I'm a Senco guy. I've heard the Grex finish nailers aren't on par with their 23 gauge guns. If you check the home centers you can get some great deals on finish guns, both Senco and PC brands. I use 1/4" hoses with my finish guns. 

 

[mastercabman]

Like Brice point out,Senco have some not so great reviews,i have a staple gun that i use sometime and it never really worked 100% perfect.
As for finish nailer,porter&cable is not bad.
Also you may want to check the new nail guns from Bosch.I don't know if they are available yet,you may want to check Amazon.com to check them out.

 

[Tom the Remodeler]

Greg, I'd like to strongly recommend the Max framing gun, model SNN883CH/34. My profession is a residential remodeler, and I've been tremendously happy with my Max. What I like best about it is the intuitive trigger. Most framing nailers have contact actuation triggers, which while handy and fast, I've found to be a safety liability. Some guns allow you to turn a switch to select between sequential or contact actuation, but my experience has been that those switches are permanently left on the bump fire setting. Here's how the Max trigger works:

1.) If you push the contact element into the wood, then pull the trigger, the gun will fire a nail, but will not cycle and will not fire another nail until you release the trigger. I've found this to be REALLY handy when shooting in really confined, dusty areas because it allows you to shoot your nail, then move the gun away from you before releasing the trigger and thus cycling the gun and the whoosh of air that ensues. It's also nice for those situations where you REALLY don't want the gun to double fire and, at best, drive two nails into the work, or worse, have one or both nails end up in YOU.

2.) If you pull the trigger first, then the gun is in contact actuation mode, and will fire a nail every time you push the nose into lumber, also known as bump firing.

I REALLY like the trigger system because it gives me the safety of easily choosing between the actuation modes depending on what I'm doing, but because there's no fumbling with a knob it's also super fast. For instance, I may be carefully positioning a board for nailing, so I'd want to be in sequential, but once I've got a nail or two in place and need to pepper the lumber with nails I can instantly switch to bump fire simply by releasing, and then again squeezing the trigger.

OTHER  than the Max, I've had good experiences with the Hitachi guns as well as the Makita framers. My employer primarily uses Paslode framers, based on my experience with them I would advise against them. The Sencos seem nice, if you go that route I'd advise to spring for an XP model.

As for the trim nailers, if you stick to Senco and Hitachi you should be pretty safe. Avoid those packaged sets, the guns included are typically the cheapies and (in my experience) don't perform as well.

I wish you the best of luck on your project, be sure to post pics when you're done!

 

[score0matic]

This is a fun post

Bostich is starting to come into its own for trim guns/ staplers
1 price at the low end
2 one step jam clearing,  because they are side and bottom load, if you jam open the magazine and clear it,  no front catches to keep u from getting in somewhere tight.
3 oil-less
4 Warranty 7year

Last year i totally retooled nail gun wise, and really wanted to put all Max in new sortainers but was talked into bostich with no regrets.

Thanks Craig

 

[Christopher Fitch]

I have a Porter Cable full head framing nailer that I picked up as a refurb. Works great. I have also used the Hitachi ballistic screws with that gun and they work pretty well. If any don't sink in well, I just pull out the impact driver and screw them in.

I also have a Senco 15 GA Angled Finish Nailer. I like that gun alot. I used to have a PC 16 GA Finish Nailer and it was good too.

 

[robtonya]

I have a Porter Cable full head framing nailer that I picked up as a refurb. Works great. I have also used the Hitachi ballistic screws with that gun and they work pretty well. If any don't sink in well, I just pull out the impact driver and screw them in.

I also have a Senco 15 GA Angled Finish Nailer. I like that gun alot. I used to have a PC 16 GA Finish Nailer and it was good too.

You are the first person that I have found to use those ballistic screws. Most people have never heard of them, and look at me like I am insane when I say you can shoot screws through your framing nailer. How do you like them? Do they have a lot of holding power, or do the screws feel sloppy after you shoot them?

 

[josephgewing]

Well you may not be interested in anything this small, but I have been using 23 gauge slight-headed brads for some of my finish work.

  I am really in awe of what they can do.  You can drive a headless pin or a slight-headed brad from 3/8 inch to 2 inches long.  The resulting hole is so small I have not needed to do anything to cover it over.  (I have only been using oak so far;  The hole might be more obvious in other woods).  The slight-headed brads have amazing holding power.  I have had a hard time getting two boards separated after using only one or two brads.  You can put in a dozen almost as fast as you can pull the trigger.

I chose a Cadex gun because it will drive slight-headed brads as well as headless pins.  I would opt for a gun that starts with 3/8 inches.  My gun goes up to 2 inches but only goes down to 5/8 inch.  So far 2 inch capacity hasn't been necessary for me.

Other guns have gotten good reviews too-including Grex, Nickle, and others.

It has saved me a lot of finish nailer hole cover up work and; with with a little glue here and there seems very strong.

Joe Ewing

 

[Greg_R]

Thanks for all the good comments so far.

Tom G., you mentioned the Max 883 gun.  Have you had any experience with shooting big nails into gluelam or engineered lumber products?  I ask the question because some reviewers recommend the Max SN890 for that application (saying the 883 didn't have enough power).  Of course, so many people use the wrong nails or fail to adjust the gun settings that it is hard to find reputable reviews.  One nice feature with the Max is that it seems to have an auxilary nipple for guiding nails into metal fasteners.  The only downside of the Max seems to be the cycle speed which is not an issue since I will not be nailing as fast as the pros.

BTW, I am looking for a full head framer due to earthquake code requirements.

Joe E., I agree with your brad nailer comments... I've been using those brads for trim work (crown, etc.).  However, I'm looking for a finish nailer to install heavier objects.

 

[Tom the Remodeler]

Thanks for all the good comments so far.

Tom G., you mentioned the Max 883 gun.  Have you had any experience with shooting big nails into gluelam or engineered lumber products?  I ask the question because some reviewers recommend the Max SN890 for that application (saying the 883 didn't have enough power).  Of course, so many people use the wrong nails or fail to adjust the gun settings that it is hard to find reputable reviews.  One nice feature with the Max is that it seems to have an auxilary nipple for guiding nails into metal fasteners.  The only downside of the Max seems to be the cycle speed which is not an issue since I will not be nailing as fast as the pros.

BTW, I am looking for a full head framer due to earthquake code requirements.

Joe E., I agree with your brad nailer comments... I've been using those brads for trim work (crown, etc.).  However, I'm looking for a finish nailer to install heavier objects.

Hi Greg! I have not personally had a chance to shoot a Max 890 series gun. My understanding of the lineage is that the 890's are getting a little old, and that the 883 series was introduced to breath some new life into their framing lineup. I have handled the 890, here's how I'd compare the guns:

Size and weight: The 890 is a heavier, longer gun than the 883, which is shorter and wider. While the 890 is heavier, it certainly isn't out of line with most guns in the field, I would compare it more to a Paslode or Hitachi NR90AC for size. For remodeling the 883 is nice because it can fit into some nooks and crannies that the 890 may not fit into. However, for nailing out headers and 95% of whatever else you'll be framing the 890 should work wonderfully.

Features: I was a little suprised to find that the 883 actually dropped some features of the 890, presumably to save weight and cost. None of these features are deal breakers, but I did find it kinda funny. The 890 series has a dry-fire lockout which prevents you from shooting when there are no nails, the 883 lacks this feature. Both series feature the all-important Max-exclusive trigger. Both series share the in-line filter which helps prevent debris from entering the gun. The 890 series features a small flip-up door for clearing jams, the 883 simply has a more open magazine style so it's easier to clear jams. I've owned my gun for almost three years now, and other than a bad batch of nails I think the gun has jammed fewer than five times. I typically use Paslode and Hitachi nails. Both series feature a thumb wheel for adjusting the depth of drive.

Power: Well, like I said, I haven't had a chance to shoot the 890 series guns, but here's what I can tell you about the 883: With the depth set pretty deep, my line pressure set to around 105-110 psi, using a 50' 1/4" hose, I can countersink 34 degree Paslode smooth shank 3.25" off-set full head nails into doubled-up LVLs and other engineered lumber. I usually prefer to run my air tools closer to 100psi, and setting the depth to near maximum means you give up a little of your toe-nailing ability, but it only takes a second or two to dial the depth back to get a good grip for a toe-nail. For dimensional lumber nailing, I typically run my depth setting pretty shallow and my line pressure closer to 100psi, otherwise I've countersunk my nails nearly 1" into the framing! Granted, of course, this will all depend on the particular engineered lumber you're using, the length, diameter, and head geometry of the nails you're using, technique, and so on.

Overall, my inclination is to tell you that the 883 series Max framing guns should be able to drive nails flush (if not countersunk) into your LVL's. If you buy it from a reputable, local pro store they typically offer a 30 day return policy, so if you're not happy with the gun you can always return it. What kind of air compressor are you using? Nailing out headers can consume a tremendous amount of air, make sure that you either have patience or a compressor that's up to the task. I prefer the Thomas Air Pac compressors, but if you're looking for a reasonably priced, powerful, quiet (albeit heavy!) compressor I'd point you towards the Makita MAC700 or MAC2400. Please let me know if I can offer any more insights, I hope your project goes well! You can also check out Fine Homebuilding, they reviewed framing nailers within the last year or so. Have a great day!
---Tom

You can check out the Max website here

 

[Greg_R]

Thanks for the info Tom.  I currently have a large 2-cycle (stationary) compressor and a very small, cheap portable that can run a brad nailer (and that's about it). 

I had been looking at the Thomas compressors but am worried that they are oil-less.  I've always been under the impression that oil-less compressors were more of a disposable item (run them for a year or so until they burn out and get a new one, etc.).  How long have you been using your Thomas?  Are you using the 2HP or a smaller version?

 

[Tom the Remodeler]

Thanks for the info Tom.  I currently have a large 2-cycle (stationary) compressor and a very small, cheap portable that can run a brad nailer (and that's about it).  

I had been looking at the Thomas compressors but am worried that they are oil-less.  I've always been under the impression that oil-less compressors were more of a disposable item (run them for a year or so until they burn out and get a new one, etc.).  How long have you been using your Thomas?  Are you using the 2HP or a smaller version?

Hi Greg! I very much agree regarding being wary of most oil-less compressors. They tend to be loud, shrill, and tend to not hold up well to professional use. For whatever reason though, the Thomas Air Pac compressors really seem to be in a class above the rest. I've owned my T-2820ST for roughly four years now, and my T-635HT for about a year, and I've been happy with both. I bought the T-635HT as a companion compressor for trim work, siding, and light stick framing. It's nice because it's light, has good cfm delivery for its weight, and is less noisy than the pancake compressors. My T-2820ST is the Rolls Royce of hand-carry compressors, the thing is awesome! It is a capacitor-start, capacitor-run compressor, which is great here in Minnesota where low temperatures can prevent some compressors from starting. My T-2820ST has never once tripped a breaker or not started due to low temperatures. It uses one motor to drive two pumps, so it runs quite smoothly and has a low-frequency thrum. It has performed admirably on the job site, easily keeping up with three guys framing, roofing, or shooting off sheeting. Regarding maintenance, my understanding is that the Thomas compressors are quite easy for the repair shops to service, when they eventually wear out all they do is replace a teflon sleeve and a seal or two and apparently the compressor is good as new. They are spendy compressors, but I have been tremendously pleased with my Thomas Air Pac compressors thus far. Amazon has plenty of other reviews you can check out as well. Have a good one!