Thinking of buying my first Festool product - dust extractor

[ChuckM]

You buy them in bulk for one and a quarter project per year? Must be sizeable projects then.

16 projects*, but many in multiples of 2 or more. These days, unless it's hand cut joinery, everything I do, it's the DF500.

9 of this seen in their dry assemblies (1 being a prototype) were made as Christmas gifts in 2022, 144 (9x16) dominoes (4mm or 5mm?) used for one project:

[attachimg=1]

Edit: You should also allow enough as "dry-fit" dominoes for each size that are just regular dominoes but planed or sanded thinner for dry-fitting purposes.

* All shop projects like thishttps://www.festoolownersgroup.com/festool-tools-accessories/rumor-mill-says-new-domino-on-the-(far-off)-horizon-what-would-you-hope-for/msg702114/#msg702114  are excluded from the count

 

[Hipplewm]

You buy them in bulk for one and a quarter project per year? Must be sizeable projects then.

One cabinet - 4 drawers
2 nailers (4)
2 stretchers (4)
each drawer (8) x4 = (32)
toe kick (4)
bottom board (6)
Face Frame (12)

That is 62 just for one cabinet at a minimum, if you have a cabinet with doors, I usually put 2 drawers behind or shelves have beauty boards in the front etc - they add up pretty dang quickly

Some will be 4's and some 5's but still you go thru them quickly

 

[luvmytoolz]

As Hipplewm said, the 700 can use the adaptors to use the smaller cutters, but you will lose some dexterity on really small or fiddly bits.

I'm currently building an oak mantel and normally the panels being 22mm thick if I was butt joining them I'd be happy with the 500 and 6mm x 50mm dominos, but in this case as I'm using rail and stile router bits I lose some of the timber width to the profile, so I'm using the 700 with 8mm x 80mm dominos as I want deeper than the 25mm max depth the 500 allows, and I can then pin them from the back.

So horses for courses, if you think you'll primarily do thin stock and use the smaller 4/5/6mm dominos a lot, the 500 might be the more nimble one, if though you might use a 50/50 mix of 4/5/6mm and 8/10mm then I'd say the 700 wit the adaptor would be better.

As mentioned, the balance and control of the 700 is far superior to the 500 I find, but I guess you just have to think ahead realistically what you'll use it for now and in the future as you get some use, as having one suddenly opens up a lot more capability, and you might find yourself doing projects you may not have considered before.

 

[squall_line]

The quick-set depth settings on the DF700 are so much nicer than the DF500, and I prefer the two widths and the DF700 pins as well.

The DF500 sells well enough that if they haven't updated the ergonomics yet, I can't imagine they will until right around the time the patents run out in a couple of years and the clones start to come out.

 

[ChuckM]

No, the best is definitely not the DF700...nor the DF500. It's the DF600! [tongue] [tongue] [tongue]

 

[rst]

In regards to to originating post, I have four Festool vacs but also the Metabo ?36 ?.  The vacs are both equal in capacity and suction, the new Festool hoses are a game changer along with the remote start.  I do not have any blue tooth batteries of the 10 I have so not an issue as far as I’m concerned

 

[mino]

As Hipplewm said, the 700 can use the adaptors to use the smaller cutters, but you will lose some dexterity on really small or fiddly bits.

I'm currently building an oak mantel and normally the panels being 22mm thick if I was butt joining them I'd be happy with the 500 and 6mm x 50mm dominos, but in this case as I'm using rail and stile router bits I lose some of the timber width to the profile, so I'm using the 700 with 8mm x 80mm dominos as I want deeper than the 25mm max depth the 500 allows, and I can then pin them from the back.

So horses for courses, if you think you'll primarily do thin stock and use the smaller 4/5/6mm dominos a lot, the 500 might be the more nimble one, if though you might use a 50/50 mix of 4/5/6mm and 8/10mm then I'd say the 700 wit the adaptor would be better.

As mentioned, the balance and control of the 700 is far superior to the 500 I find, but I guess you just have to think ahead realistically what you'll use it for now and in the future as you get some use, as having one suddenly opens up a lot more capability, and you might find yourself doing projects you may not have considered before.

Thanks both!

This was exactly the type of a comment I was looking for.

...
The DF500 sells well enough that if they haven't updated the ergonomics yet, I can't imagine they will until right around the time the patents run out in a couple of years and the clones start to come out.

This is an interesting aspect.

I do definitely expect the DF 500 to get updated in the next 5 years or so. The DF 700 not so much. It is a way lower volume tool so one look at the TS 75 answers that.

All things considered, this really drives *me* into the DF 700 + the Seneca kit. An approach of "shall I face challenges, first go rental for the 500 for those special cases" *) and only whe I will *know* I need it do go get it.

Thanks all for the comments. May it help the OP as well!

*) thank God I can over here ...

 

[Crazyraceguy]

I can't even imagine using the 4mm Dominos in the DF700  [scared]
That little thing doesn't even work with the "normal" settings of the DF500
I have used a few out of the assortment set, but if you looked at the bag, you might think it was new?
In the mean time, I have used well over 5K of the 6mm, since we moved into the new shop. That was 4 years ago last month. They come in boxes of 1140, six bags of 190 ea.

I'm getting to the point where I'm considering sending it in for inspection? It works fine, but it has done at least 8 thousand joints, 16,000 plunges. That's just the ones where tenons were used. It has done plenty of slots for other uses too.
I clean and slightly lube the rails occasionally, it feels nice/smooth, but is there a service life of something. Should I send it in? or just keep happily using it  [huh]

 

[ChuckM]

I can't even imagine using the 4mm Dominos in the DF700  [scared]
That little thing doesn't even work with the "normal" settings of the DF500
snip.

When a green horn, I broke the 4mm cutter. Festool's manual offers no warning whatsoever! [mad] DO NOT MOVE OR TILT the DF500 until the cutter is completely inside the housing.

I use the 6mm & 8mm dominoes the most, and I have two 6mm cutters just in case. I can't imagine breaking the 8mm cutter. (When you're in the middle of a job, driving half an hour (much longer in the winter) just to get a replacement cutter from LVT is xxxxxxx (unpublishable msg)).

As for sending in a tool when it's working... you must have missed some of the (unproven) stories on this forum in which tools sent to Festool were said to be "worse" or less desirable afterwards

 

[mino]

As for sending in a tool when it's working... you must have missed some of the (unproven) stories on this forum in which tools sent to Festool were said to be "worse" or less desirable afterwards

This very much!

Is a common "issue" known to anyone doing car engines maintenance/repair.

The issue is from matching surfaces. As parts wear, they wear out on both sides of the surface. When one then replaces only one component, the "good" enough component - which worked absolutely fine till then - is very likely to not "like" the new part as they no longer "know" each other. So fine, lets just replace both parts ... then one realizes the effect is not only on gears, but also the castings, the bearings, etc. etc.

From what I gather, the Festool official service tries to remediate this by a pretty strict guidance to "replace everything with wear", but even that is not enough in many cases and then there is the pile of people who will complain about "unneeded" replacements. Damned if you do, damned if you don't. The same problem is going to official Daimler service .. and it also results in the technicians loosing (never getting ?) a "feel" for the machines. When all you do is replace parts by wear-indicator, it is almost impossible to get a true undertanding of the machine wear profile and where wear is a problem and where it is not.

Back to the original comment, I do believe 10 k dominoes is not that much. Almost in the occasional/hobby user territory. I am sure there are folks who do that in a year.

I would worry more about the lube age after 10+ years, not such a workload level.

 

[ChuckM]

Snip.
From what I gather, the Festool official service tries to remediate this by a pretty strict guidance to "replace everything with wear", but even that is not enough in many cases and then there is the pile of people who will complain about "unneeded" replacements.Snip

If such a policy is really in place, is it total customer care or money grabbing? You be the judge.

 

[squall_line]

Snip.
From what I gather, the Festool official service tries to remediate this by a pretty strict guidance to "replace everything with wear", but even that is not enough in many cases and then there is the pile of people who will complain about "unneeded" replacements.Snip

If such a policy is really in place, is it total customer care or money grabbing? You be the judge.

It's return avoidance more than anything else.

Fix a broken gear, 3 weeks later another part breaks, now the question is whether or not anyone should have known if that would happen or if the repair caused the additional problem.

According to someone on Facebook, you can request Festool to do a "repair this much and this much only", but you have to be very intentional about doing that when you send it in, and probably need to stay in contact with them throughout the process.

 

[ChuckM]

snip.
It's return avoidance more than anything else.
Snip
According to someone on Facebook, you can request Festool to do a "repair this much and this much only", but you have to be very intentional about doing that when you send it in, and probably need to stay in contact with them throughout the process.

That wasn't the impression I got from other Festool owners on this forum who complained about the additional items they had to pay for. If Festool allows an owner to choose what to fix upon receipt of its "Items to fix" list, that'd be reasonable, but that's on Facebook. Is it an official Festool option?

 

[squall_line]

snip.
It's return avoidance more than anything else.
Snip
According to someone on Facebook, you can request Festool to do a "repair this much and this much only", but you have to be very intentional about doing that when you send it in, and probably need to stay in contact with them throughout the process.

That wasn't the impression I got from other Festool owners on this forum who complained about the additional items they had to pay for. If Festool allows an owner to choose what to fix upon receipt of its "Items to fix" list, that'd be reasonable, but that's on Facebook. Is it an official Festool option?

The impression I got was that unless you specifically requested it before even sending in the tool, you were stuck with the "We already took the whole thing apart and this is what needs to be replaced if you want us to reassemble it" option.  And even if you got them to agree to it before sending it in, I would imagine it would behoove you to call when it arrived and again when it was being serviced to make sure they got the memo.

Oh, would that we had more dealers who still did on-site repairs for out-of-warranty jobs...