From richard.selwyn

[The Woodentop]

    Seriously, if your interested in spray equipment, please do yourself a favor and check out graco.com and/or spraytech has some nice sprayers as well. I have 5 different spray tec models and they are all a large amount of fun to use. thanks dan

It's not my business but don't you think five different spray guns might be considered 'over the top'?

I'm sure there must be a sane reason.....I'd just like to know what it might be.

 

[Dan Uhlir]

hi Richard

          The reason i have 5 is cuz i'm a painting conrtactor. 2 hvlp one is a quart cup gun, CS 9100 we use this for doing smaller jobs say 1 or two doors a little trim work.The other hvlp is actually a cross between hvlp and airless for doing say 10 doors or new construction trimwork of the whole house, holds two and a half gallons of paint.
          The other 3 are all airless for spraying exteriors of homes,one of them is on on it's last legs, and one is gas powered and i can run 2 hoses 150 feet if i choose normally 50 feet is plenty rarely do we use even say 100 with two guns, but it's nice to know it's there. the other one is a small airless real lite easy to manuever for smaller jobs. the other reason was spraytec ran a buy 3 get one free sale so and i got a free well CS 9100 actually a good deal. I sold the second CS 9100 and it worked out great. my new favorite word all together now overhead expenses, in direct relation to labor. And i'm working my @@@@@ off. thanks dan

 

[Dave Ronyak]

My thinking too, Dan.  And when I saw it and played with it at the show, it was amazing.  The inner liner collapses like a plastic sandwich bag to conform to the remaining material in the cup.  And by disconnecting the vacuum tube and pulling the trigger, returns to its original cylindrical shape.  Has an air-tight top for storage of remaining material for multi-session or frequently used finishes.

Literally, the only clean-up required is the short section of the gun between material intake and spray nozzle.

I'm shortly going to start a major painting project -- long deck railing and posts.   I'll let you know whether it works out as advertised.

Dave

Well, Dave, how did your project go?  Are you satisfied with the 3M PPS after using it?  With what spray gun and turbine, if that is what you used?  I am shopping for an HVLP system for home/hobbyist use (but have some major projects in mind).  I have convertional HP spray guns, but am ready for a change in equipment as I change from solvent based to water based finishes for woodworking.

Dave R.

 

[Dave Ronyak]

After much reading here on FOG and elsewhere, I decided to purchase a Fuji 2048 Super 4 Turbine HVLP system which is available until stocks run out @ $549. According to a fairly comprehensive comparision testing article appearing at pp 72-77in the April/May 2006 issue of WOOD Magazine the Fuji HVLP XT gun tested by them can go down only to 5" wide whereas both the Accuspray model 10 gun and the Turbinaire model BNB gun can go down to 1" wide.  According the that article, the 3-stage systems by Accurspray, Fuji and Turbinair sprayed all of the finish types included in the testing (including Oxford's WB Ultima Varnish) without need of any thinning.  Supposedly Fuji's XT-2 HVLP can go down to a much smaller fan spray size than their model XT, but the XT-2 gun is not included in the special system pricing.  It is available for outright purchase at ~$250 and as a subsitute for the XT gun.  I do not know the cost to substitute. 
http://www.phelpsrefinishing.com/fuji.html  still has several of these specially priced units in stock.

The Phelps site has video/audio clips so you can get some idea of the relative sound quality and noise level of several different Fuji turbine units.  He offers different package deals, and will set up whatever needle / cap size you choose.  I chose the standard ~1.4mm which he indicated should be fine for use with Target Coatings WB shellac and lacquer which is what I plan to try first.

I figured at the special pricing of this quiet 4-stage turbine system I can buy another gun from a different manufacturer if I am not satisfied with the Fuji unit, and still have not spent as much as most dealers want for a Turbinaire or Accuspray system which are top-rated in the WOOD magazine article.  Accuspray definitely leads in appearance and convenience/mobility with the packaging of their 2030 (3-stage) turbine unit at ~$1000 and 2040 (4-stage) turbine unit at ~1200, but for the difference in cost I can make a simple cart if I want one.  Plus, it seems to me to minimize fouling of the turbine filters, the turbine unit should be positioned well away from where you are spraying if you don't have a true spray booth with exhaust fan system.  My spray booth will be a temporary one fashioned of cardboard and wooden slats to direct the overspray to a exhaust fan in a window.

I have no connection to Phelps or any other merchant of HVLP equipment.

Dave R.

 

[semenza]

Hi,

      How much cfm of air at what pressure is needed for a system like this?

Seth

 

[semenza]

Hi,

  Oh, I get it now. Turbine system means no compressor.

Seth

 

[Eli]

They still measure PSI and CFM though. A 2 stage might be like, 4.5 PSI, 110-115 CFM. A 4 stage might be something like: 8 PSI, 130 CFM. Still compresses, doesn't have a tank.

 

[Overtime]

Dave R - that looks like a nice package and price. I think you will be pleased with the unit and the quality and ease of use. Thats the same gun that came with my unit and it's been great so far. I have been using the 1.4 tip for all my Target coatings.

You may want to add the 6' flexible whip hose as this will make life much better by making the handling of the gun much better then the direct connection to the stiff supplied hose.

Also I think you will like the Target products. I find that I now tend to wipe on the WB shellac rather then spray it on. Then follow with multiple coats of USL - 6-8 sprayed and then a final top coat. The USL is very user friendly ( great burn in with previous coats without the need for sanding between coats) with great results. Coats can be applied at approximately 45 minute intervals.

I would like to add a gravity feed gun to my set at some time also.

 

[Jim McFarland]

... Also I think you will like the Target products. I find that I now tend to wipe on the WB shellac rather then spray it on. Then follow with multiple coats of USL - 6-8 sprayed and then a final top coat. ...

Patrick, do you thin the Target products prior to wiping on?  I contacted Homestead regarding wiping on the Target SC9000 product and their suggestion is to thin 20% with water.  I have a built-in project where I want to avoid spraying if practical.

I second the whip hose recommendation -- I use on an older Fuji Q3 system.  I also like the mini-cups for smaller projects.

 

[eweber]

I second the flexible hose. It does had a lot of comfort when spraying.

Emmanuel

 

[Overtime]

Jim, I have not thinned any of the Target products (yet)  I have used the SC9000 tinted over tinted 8800 as the sealer to get an opaque white finish.  I find that the 8800 is a rather thick sealer that mutes the grain the most but it also acts as a good filler. I don't use the 8800 for any clear finish work.  I think thinning the SC9000 for a wipe on sealer is a good idea. Try a small sample, start with like 10% and see what results look like before going to 20%. 20% sounds like allot but they know their stuff !
  The Super Clear finish coats gave great results but waiting 2 hrs between coats is no fun.

I have some Hybrivar that I have not used yet and was also told to thin it for use as a sealer. So thats what I plan to do. I'm looking forward to trying the Hybrivar.
   
  The WB ultraseal shellac is Very thin straight up and will saturate most woods easily. I find that I have more control ( more uniform coverage with less runs and or splotches ) when I wipe it on rub it in and then off in one quick session. Then repeat for deeper color effects. Don't let it set too long before wiping it off. 
  Spraying the WB shellac can be a little tricky as absorption rates vary and can lead to uneven coverage and runs. But this could also be just my lack of experience. And I find it's much faster for me to wipe it on. I usually use a foam brush to apply then rub off with clean rag.

   

 

[Dave Ronyak]

Overtime, Emmanuel, and Jim,

I did purchase the whip hose and the mini-cup set, and used these over the past weekend to finish a pair of shop cabinets made from Chinese? birch plywood from HD.  I used Target's amber WB shellac to which I added some aniline dyes (from my ancient stock, from Day company) to impart a slightly reddish cast to a medium brown finish.  It worked well.  My only regret is not adding enough dye to the mini-cup to make the color more intense.  One thing I realize is that I did not have any way to reverse the color toward brown if I added too much red (I had no green available).  I applied 3 - 4 coats of shellac (dye stain only in the first two), let it dry and knocked off the nibs.  I used dry microfiber towels to remove the sanding dust (220 grit).  Then I switched to Target WB lacquer, and sprayed 2 coats, knocked down the nibs, microfiber wiped, then sprayed 2 more.  Then I quit.  Hey, these are only intended to be shop cabinets!  I used semi-gloss USL.  I am satisfied with the results, but I believe I could achieve the same or even a much smoother and thicker coating if I was using traditional solvent based lacquer and HP spray equipment.  Maybe that is simply due to my having much more experience with the old technology.  Clean up was a snap, and the absence of fumes a delight.  I did make one mistake - I forgot to clean my shop glasses and today (a day later) discovered they have a nice, even coating of fine overspray adhered to the polycarbonate lenses.

I confirm that the Fuji GT-2 gun and 4-stage turbine work quite well in atomizing the Target (Oxford) coatings.  I also found it very simple and quick to rotate the nozzle cap to change from a flat fan spray pattern to a smaller cone. 

Not knowing any better, I did not clean out the gun between uses except to flush it with water before leaving overnight, and did not cover the nozzle between coating applications.  But I had no problems despite my lack of care.  The gun cleaned up easily when I was done.  There was a very slight buildup of overspray on the nozzle cap which very slightly degraded the fan shape, making a vertical fan asymmetric when viewed from the side.

Dave R.