Fuming

[Brian J]

First let me say that I am aware of the dangers and necessary precautions, however I am doing a project out of 1/4 sawn white oak and I would like to try (maybe) fuming.
I say maybe because it is quite nice natural. I don't want stain, thought of dye but no. Fuming or natural it will be. My problem is I am having a hell of a time finding ammonia. I live in the Toronto area so I doubt I could get it sent from the US. Anybody in my area have any luck with this. It would also be interesting to hear if anyone has tried this technique, I understand the results are quite impressive.

 

[peter halle]

There has been at least one thread here about fuming from a UK member.  You might want to try a search for "fum" and see what you get.  Off course you might get further answers here also.

Peter

For ammonia in quantity, you might want to search for architectural print supply suppliers.  Ammonia was used for blue prints.

 

[GaryE]

I got my Ammonia from an industrial cleaning supply company. I think it was a 40% solution. Worked like a charm!

 

[Brian J]

No real luck Peter. Lots of info out there on the technique. But finding aqua ammonia is tricky. Nobody does blueprints anymore it seems. Ace seems to sell a 10% cleaner but I don't have them here. Most of the stuff I've read call for 30% but 10% seems like a better idea for both me and my wood. A little slower and a lot safer!

Any chemists out there? Can I do something with fertilizer besides make a bomb, i.e. add water? Would that release the ammonia. Got a buddy who has 60 odd Tennessee walking horses, guess I could get real traditional and leave the stuff in his barn for awhile.

 

[Brian J]

I got my Ammonia from an industrial cleaning supply company. I think it was a 40% solution. Worked like a charm!

Anywhere in the Toronto area? I've been checking a lot of places like that and can't seem to find one that sells it (haven't started phoning them yet just surfing sites).

 

[tiralie]

Try Old Country Ammonia All Purpose Cleaner 10% Ammonia Hydroxide. No perfumes and no soap.
Alternatively if you need higher concentration try AMER Supply E/S AMMONIA 26% in a 4 L. container.
Tim

 

[GaryE]

I got my Ammonia from an industrial cleaning supply company. I think it was a 40% solution. Worked like a charm!

Anywhere in the Toronto area? I've been checking a lot of places like that and can't seem to find one that sells it (haven't started phoning them yet just surfing sites).

Sorry Brian, I'm in Vancouver,the place I got it from is closed down,it was a small shop.

 

[Brian J]

Try Old Country Ammonia All Purpose Cleaner 10% Ammonia Hydroxide. No perfumes and no soap.
Alternatively if you need higher concentration try AMER Supply E/S AMMONIA 26% in a 4 L. container.
Tim

Thanks Tim heard about the Old Country. Read somewhere it was only 3% but 10% is good. Home Hardware has it. Going to give it a go.

 

[jmbfestool]

I have used the house hold ammonia before and just brushed it directly onto the oak and it worked really well I did it twice to darken the oak a bit more.  I thought it would turn out patchy but it didn't and it started to change colour a lot quicker than I thought.   It saves making an air tight box to stick the oak inside and doesnt have to be as strong if you brush it on directly.

JMB

 

[Brian J]

I have used the house hold ammonia before and just brushed it directly onto the oak and it worked really well I did it twice to darken the oak a bit more.  I thought it would turn out patchy but it didn't and it started to change colour a lot quicker than I thought.   It saves making an air tight box to stick the oak inside and doesnt have to be as strong if you brush it on directly.

JMB

I read somewhere of someone else doing the brush on technique. I'm going to get some of the Old Country Cleaner and see what else might be in it. I don't want anything left behind, and if no other chemicals I will  try a test piece. Brushing sure sounds easier and safer!

 

[Kodi Crescent]

You can make meth with ammonia. 

 

[jmbfestool]

I have used the house hold ammonia before and just brushed it directly onto the oak and it worked really well I did it twice to darken the oak a bit more.  I thought it would turn out patchy but it didn't and it started to change colour a lot quicker than I thought.   It saves making an air tight box to stick the oak inside and doesnt have to be as strong if you brush it on directly.

JMB

I read somewhere of someone else doing the brush on technique. I'm going to get some of the Old Country Cleaner and see what else might be in it. I don't want anything left behind, and if no other chemicals I will  try a test piece. Brushing sure sounds easier and safer!

Yeah it is safer.  Using a much weaker ammonia and you can just brush it on out side in the open air if it's not raining is safer.

Easier yes.  Don't need to spend time making a closed box to stick your wood in.

Down side is you can't control how dark to make your wood once you brushed it on its out of your control.

  Doing is with the fumes you can take it out sooner if you just want to darken it slightly and if you want it really dark you leave it in the box for longer.

But don't worry about it going really dark with a weak house hold ammonia it requires a few coats to get it really dark I have found. But it's best always to try it on a good size piece first.

You can get the stuff from amazon  dats where I got mine from.

Jmb

 

[phmade]

I fumed some white oak a few years ago.  I purchased 100% ammonia from an architectural print shop.  Ammonia was (is) used in blueprint machines.  I think I paid about $20 for the gallon and it worked great.  It is very dangerous stuff and you should definitely wear goggles and a respirator.  Good luck - I am very pleased with how my project turned out. 

 

[Brian J]

Thank to everyone who replied to this post. You were all very helpful.

I got my hands on some Old Country Cleaner. Nowhere on the bottle does it mention the ammonia concentration, however Tim said 10% so let's go with that since it is a household product. I tried the wipe on technique and fuming.

The results of wiping it were almost immediate (of course wetting wood does darken it). After about an hour it was dry to touch and a little darker so I did a second coat. Darker still of course. After drying overnight lighter but still noticeably darker than my control piece. I now have a good handle on the wipe on technique. Quite controllable I think.
At the same time I had a piece in a large plastic covered bin. I left it outside by the way, but with care and in a dedicated (spare) room I could have left it inside. My container was well sealed and this is household concentration but warning!!! still strong and therefore dangerous.
After about three hours (bedtime) I had to have a little peek. Much to my surprise because this is a low concentration solution, my piece was noticeably darker!
I checked again after 12 hours, darker still, after 18 hours I took it out and left it for about 4 hours. It was quite dark at this point by the way.
The 4 hours is because... I expected some grain raising with the wipe on application, what I did not expect was a dampening of the wood and slight raising during the fuming!, so I let it dry. Lightly sanded with 320. No real loss of color.
I think this was because this is a water based product. Interesting!

Having said all this I think my project will be left natural. The fuming (and yes I put some finish on) seemed to reduce the natural radiance of the white oak (quartered of course). The finer I sanded the more the natural beauty of the oak came through and for this project at least I can't bear to change that.

And speaking of sanding I just have to have one more little Rant (and/or Rave) about my sander. I will probably own an ETS (or three) simply because they are Festools. Yup I got the bug bad! But I find it difficult if not impossible to believe that anything can make a better finish than my RO 90 hooked up to a CT 26 (Rubin to 180, Brilliant 2 to 320). What a sweet tool, blows me away every time... period.

Thanks for reading. See ya soon.

B

 

[peter halle]

Brian,

I hope you will be able to post some images of the final product.  My guess is that others would be interested.

Peter

 

[Brian J]

Brian,

I hope you will be able to post some images of the final product.  My guess is that others would be interested.

Peter

Will do.

 

[tiralie]

...it looks like (from the supplier) Old Country is somewhere in the range of 5%-10% ammonia.
Hopefully it still works for you.
Tim

 

[nehardwoodfloors]

Have you guys tried this fuming liquid? It reacts with the woods tannin and darkens and or greys out the wood.
Pretty cool stuff to mess with!
http://www.monocoat.us/Fumed/

 

[thebicyclecafe]

Another option is the transtint dyes. They work quite well to give the Stickley look, I looked into this when I built kitchen countertops out of quarter sawn white oak- given the size of the project it just wasn't feasible to build a large fuming booth. If you have a small piece and have the ability to do the fuming it's probably fine either way.