General question on Euro vs. US market tools

[keithwwalker]

Has anyone confirmed that european track saw motors only run on 220VAC, and you can not switch cords and run on single phase 120VAC in USA?

I suppose some Canadian's may have experience with this.

Just wondering if anyone has direct experience, or if you are european, does the motor label give a voltage range for safe operation?

Thanks
kw

 

[jeh]

You cannot take a 220VAC tool and run in on 120VAC without an adapter. You can take a 220VAC tool and run it on 220/230/240VAC. You will need to need to change the plug to fit your countries configuration.

I don't know much about them but there are step-up devices to take 120VAC to 220/230/240VAC.

The motors on most power tools are universal meaning they can work on 110 or 120VAC, same for 220 or 230 or240A, however you have to have a step-up device to take 120VAC to 220/230/240AC.

 

[Coen]

Depends on what type of motor exactly and in some cases of the circuitry before the motor. In general; no.

Could also ask the Belgians to try, since they still have a lot of 127V grids; they get 220 by connecting in between fases; sqrt(3)*127 = 220

But in the US of A with their split-phase network you could connect in between phases to get 2x120 = 240 V

 

[jeffinsgf]

The short answer is, No.

I have used step-up transformers, and they work, but they're big and heavy and likely expensive. I had one in my trade show days to power 220 machines and avoiding ridiculously expensive 220 exhibition floor charges. Unless you have a shop full of European power tools and machinery you are trying to use because your stay in the States will be short lived, I would go a different route. Sell your Euro tools in Europe and buy U.S. wired replacements here.

 

[Coen]

If it's a shop full, and it is his own shop... just make some 220V outlets?

 

[jeh]

If it's a shop full, and it is his own shop... just make some 220V outlets?

That is what I would do. I have even thought about purchasing 220V tools while abroad to use in the US in my shop.

 

[alltracman78]

The label should state the voltage the tool runs on. You can't run 240V tools on 120V.

The only place I know of that has 120V in Europe is Britain. Most tools there are 240V, but jobsite tools (in Britain) have to be 120V. So if the manufacturer decides to make it they have a 120V version. 240 or 120 will have different connectors that won't plug into our outlets.

As others have stated you can have 240V plugs wired into your shop/home. Works just fine. Even if you just have one tool.

 

[squall_line]

I think one of the confounding factors in all of this is the ubiquity of switching power supplies for consumer electronics that are able to handle everything from 110 up through 240 with just the change of a plug/adapter.

When you're just trying to convert AC to 5 or 12 volts at a few amps, it's much easier (not trivial, just easier) to make power supplies that can handle the wider range in AC voltage.  I suppose you could theoretically do the same with higher wattage tools, but the power supply would get so big that it becomes unwieldy.

 

[jeffinsgf]

If it's a shop full, and it is his own shop... just make some 220V outlets?

Good point...I did say a "shop" full, but in my mind I was thinking of a stack of Systainers going to a job site, where it would be inconvenient to arrange 220 for power tool usage.

But another issue is frequency. Most European motors are 50 cycle. Running certain types of motors on 60 cycle power will make them run extremely hot. Don't know about fractional HP power tool motors, but larger motors don't handle it well.

 

[MRPayne]

The voltage is only part of the equation, add in the 50hz vs 60hz issue.
Also keep in mind that US voltage isn't necessarily 220v, my power meter is currently showing 241V.
The US tools have a rating of 110 - 120V 60hz.
The Euro version are 230V 50hz.
If you check the parts lists they are listed as different motors (I did check a TS 55 REQ)
You'll stand a very good chance of burning out a motor, the electronics might not even allow things to run.
Could be down with a transformer or 2 motors connected via a belt (the first motor being a local motor the second one the power you are looking for), same concept as a rotary phase converter, running the motor as a generator.

 

[Coen]

Synchronous motors aren't in handheld powertools.

 

[alltracman78]

The US is nominally 120 volts or 240 volts. There's an allowable range however. 120 volt tool isn't going to care if it's 110 volts or 120 volts. Same goes for a 240 volt tool. It doesn't have to have exactly 240 volts.

Most hand power tools can operate between 50 to 60 hertz. Festool specifically states this right on the tool label.
A European 240 volt tool works perfectly fine on an American 240 volt circuit.

As far as consumer electronics it's easier to convert from higher voltage AC to lower voltage dc.
Converting from a lower to a higher ac voltage is more complicated.

 

[Mini Me]

I have been running a Leeson USA motor on 75hz for many years with no smoke escaping from it yet.

 

[Jim_in_PA]

Also keep in mind that US voltage isn't necessarily 220v, my power meter is currently showing 241V.

While people will say 220v or 230v (and 110 v), the North American standard for power is 240v/120v. @60hz. Any variations are local and typically just because of infrastructure and loads.

 

[tsmi243]

Also keep in mind that US voltage isn't necessarily 220v, my power meter is currently showing 241V.

While people will say 220v or 230v (and 110 v), the North American standard for power is 240v/120v. @60hz. Any variations are local and typically just because of infrastructure and loads.

Yup.  Depends on how old you are, or who trained you.  The guys I learned from were Vietnam age- they called everything 110, and probably still do.  The real number's been 120 for a long time, but I still say 110 sometimes, because it's how I learned.  Most people in the trades will know what you mean. 

There's a spec for "acceptable variation", but I don't recall exactly what it is.  It's big enough for a 10V spread, so even if you still have 110V at your house, you really don't need to worry about it.

 

[jeh]

The label should state the voltage the tool runs on. You can't run 240V tools on 120V.

The only place I know of that has 120V in Europe is Britain. Most tools there are 240V, but jobsite tools (in Britain) have to be 120V. So if the manufacturer decides to make it they have a 120V version. 240 or 120 will have different connectors that won't plug into our outlets.

As others have stated you can have 240V plugs wired into your shop/home. Works just fine. Even if you just have one tool.

The UK uses 110V (@ 50Hz) on job sites for safety reasons, but I do not know if it is required or just done for safety. This is why you see 110V tools sold in UK tool retailers. I purchased a Mafell MT26cc while in the UK and brought it back to the US. You can either cut the cord and put a new plug on it or find the female mate of the male end already attached to the cord. I found it on eBay and connected it to short extension cord after cutting the female end off. The UK male plug is contained within a plastic sleeve with a very sturdy locking mechanism so there is no chance my transition cord will ever disconnect. I was apprehensive at first but after several hours of use and now several years I can say it performs perfectly the US. I think the rest of Europe is 230V so the UK is the only option assuming that is true. Favorable exchange rates can help make an unknown purchase like this reasonable.

 

[Coen]

It's done because it's a requirement.

They already have enough people hurting their feet on their version of 230V plug that always ends up pins up on the floor that they had to mandate 110V on building sites to save a few life years there.

It's also not 110V in the US way (220 with grounded center tap) but 110V with grounded center tap. So the maximum live voltage hot - ground is only 55Vac.

 

[luvmytoolz]

I have been running a Leeson USA motor on 75hz for many years with no smoke escaping from it yet.

50Hz?

 

[alltracman78]

The UK uses 110V (@ 50Hz) on job sites for safety reasons, but I do not know if it is required or just done for safety.

I don't think it's actually required (I may be wrong on that), but I believe it's generally done because they feel exposed cords are more prone to damage on a job site. If you damage and short a cord 55 volts gives less of a jolt than 240 volts. Jobsite voltage is 110 available volts but because of how it's wired each current carrying wire only has 55 volts, same way US 240 volts is actually 120 volts on each current carrying wire.

They already have enough people hurting their feet on their version of 230V plug that always ends up pins up on the floor that they had to mandate 110V on building sites to save a few life years there.

[laughing]

It's next to impossible to find a direct UK 110 to US 120 or a UK 240 to US 240 plug adapter.

It is very easy to find a UK 240 to US 120 plug adapter. BUT it DOESN'T change the voltage, it only changes the shape of the plug so you can physically plug one into the other. Unless you have a tool or appliance that is dual voltage you'll still want a transformer to change the voltage in the circuit to one or the other.

You obviously can also cut the cord and wire whatever plug you want to it. However, once again, you need to make sure the voltage of the tool and the wiring matches. That's why there are different plugs for different voltages, so you can't accidentally plug the wrong one in.

One other note on UK 240 volt plugs and wiring. They usually (always?) have a 13 amp fuse wired into the plug.
Because of how their 240 volt circuits are wired (it was designed to use thinner wire to save money/materials) the available current is 32 amps I believe, but most of the things plugged into the circuit have wiring that can only handle 13 amps. If the plug didn't have the smaller fuse and the appliance had a short the higher available current would fry the wire and potentially cause a fire. This way if something shorts it will blow the smaller fuse before the current gets too high for the smaller wiring.

That's a lot more info than I originally intended to dump....

 

[AstroKeith]

The UK uses 110V (@ 50Hz) on job sites for safety reasons, but I do not know if it is required or just done for safety.

I don't think it's actually required (I may be wrong on that), but I believe it's generally done because they feel exposed cords are more prone to damage on a job site. If you damage and short a cord 55 volts gives less of a jolt than 240 volts. Jobsite voltage is 110 available volts but because of how it's wired each current carrying wire only has 55 volts, same way US 240 volts is actually 120 volts on each current carrying wire.

One other note on UK 240 volt plugs and wiring. They usually (always?) have a 13 amp fuse wired into the plug.
Because of how their 240 volt circuits are wired (it was designed to use thinner wire to save money/materials) the available current is 32 amps I believe, but most of the things plugged into the circuit have wiring that can only handle 13 amps. If the plug didn't have the smaller fuse and the appliance had a short the higher available current would fry the wire and potentially cause a fire. This way if something shorts it will blow the smaller fuse before the current gets too high for the smaller wiring.

That's a lot more info than I originally intended to dump....

The 110V on sites is effectively a regulation, as failure to comply would result in prosecution under our Health & Safety regulations should an accident occur. It has made battery operated tools very popular on work sites!

You are right the fuse in our usual plug is to protect the cable. We have 3, 5 & 13A fuses which 'should' be fitted to suit the cable. For instance my Festool battery charger came with a 5A fuse fitted. It is usual to distribute our sockets around the house on 32A ring mains. Cookers etc will get a direct connection ('star'). All circuits are individually protected with a very sensitive RCBO and each bank of RCBOs has a master RCBO.

For higher loads, we do also have an entirely different circular plug type. Not fused and rated at 16A & 32A. You might find these in commercial premises powering machinery etc. These are connected to a single cable back to a dedicated RCBO in the distribution box. For some reason we call the distribution box the 'consumer unit'.

Probably the biggest danger on work sites would have been water, which doesnt go well with 240Vac!