Getting ready to buy MFT/3 combo

[Dave Ronyak]

Get the longer 1900mm Guide Rail if you can.  I bought the TS 55 saw and accepted it with the 1400mm rail and bought another 1400 rail and a pair of connectors.  I didn't know any better at that time, I hadn't discovered the good advice of many more experienced members of FOG.  Having an assortment of Guide Rail lengths will come in handy.  The 1900mm rail will save you having to join two rails together as often, thus saving you time.  The extra length will come in handy when cross cutting 4ftx8ft  sheet materials, you won't have to be as careful in placing the rail to ensure an adequate overhang and proper guidance of the saw.  When you need to rip pieces lengthwise or make a diagonal cut from 4ftx8ft sheet materials, again that extra length will come in handy.

Dave R.

 

[tbellemare]

Todd:

That is our policy and we extend it to other things within reason. Festool encourages dealers to make that option available, just as they encourage dealers to make the MFT plus saw packages available. Neither are necessarily available because they aren't mandated by our dealer agreements.

Just like the fact that the "standard" pricing is really minimum pricing and you will see dealers charge more, some of the packages and flexibility are optional and some dealers go farther to accomodate their customers than others.

Our agreement prohibits us from "undercutting" with regard to pricing but in no way prohibits us from making every attempt to accomodate our customers' needs.

Tom

 

[Forrest Anderson]

Tom,

Is that your policy as a dealer WRT allowing the changing of tracks that one gets with the TS55 or is that Festool policy. 

It is interesting to note that the question of alternative guide rails being supplied with the saw comes up in the Festool Support Knowledgebase, although the option of getting a shorter rail and getting a reduction in the standard package price isn't mentioned, nor is the TS75:

http://www.festoolusa.com/support/Support-Article.html?ArticleID=58

Q. Can I exchange a FS 1400/2 for a longer guide rail when I purchase the TS55?

A. Yes, you simply pay the difference in cost. You can also join two guide rails to create a longer rail using connectors (482107).  Two are required to join the new style guide rail.

I'm not too sure whether dealers in other countries would be so keen to do that, but it's worth waving the article under their noses!

Forrest

 

[Notorious T.O.D.]

Tom,

Thanks for the information.  I guess after I have spent over $2,500 on Festool and probably another $1,000-$1,200 on other stuff with this dealer in the last 12-13 months.  I also have plans to buy about $2000 more of Festool just as  soon as I sell a couple other pieces of equipment.  I guess maybe I will have to rethink my future purchases with them if this is the way I am going to be treated.      I did ask the question about 4 times to several different people so I got the same answer consistently.

I would seriously think about just taking the MFT/3 and the TS55 saw back to them but I just looked at my receipt and it is dated 12/16/08 so I guess I am a couple days past the 30 days...  Maybe that would get their attention and help them be a little more customer oriented.  Well, I may haul the track down there next time and see if I can change their mind and let me get a longer rail...

Forrest, thanks for the information too.

Best,
Todd

 

[stubby]

I was planning to buy from a somewhat local Woodcraft, to do my part to help a local business, but I called there and was told that they are not allowed to make substitutions for the rails from the combo deals due to the way they are packaged. Huh? Whether this is a Festool rule or a Woodcraft rule I didn't ask.  I then called another Woodcraft (which is actually closer but I don't care for the drive) and they said pretty much the same thing. Both fellas seemed quite defensive about it even though I didn't badger them about it. I simply asked the question and said OK, thank you. I guess they realized they lost a sale.
What a shame, no offense to the on-line dealers but now and then you want to go to a brick and mortar store and see, smell , touch and shoot the bull a little before buying something. And if Festool authorizes exchanges and upgrades then certainly Woodcraft should as well I would think. I realize they are franchised but they are a national chain selling to mostly hobbiests I assume and you would think they would be fairly flexible with these things.
My apologies. I'm ranting on. I'm just a little miffed. Especially since I was gonna take my Mrs with and let her twist my arm into buying her dinner on the way home  ;D

Eric

 

[nickao]

That woodcraft does not even know their own rules(Woodcrafts). Since the woodcraft's are privately owned they do what they want, but I bet if someone complained to Festool and Festool called that store they would realize they can and should and would change out the rail. I know the Woodcraft near me did it for a friend a while back.

But to fight to do them a favor is ridiculous.

GO with Bob Marino!

 

[mwhafner]

I have to admit that I don't have near the horror stories many of you do about my local Woodcraft.  For the most part, they are great.

When I bought my TS75 (about 6 months ago), I asked.  I was debating trading to the 2424 with holes, as I already have several rails.  They told me it was no problem, I just had to pay the difference.  I ended up just getting the standard 1900. 

 

[tbellemare]

There are reasons to go local and reasons not to go local. Everybody needs to decide for themselves which is better.

I have devoted local customers and the same is true of distant ones. I think people who find themselves in a position to need things in a couple of hours should try to have a local source that they like and who will give them good advice. Another reason to go local is the interpersonal, which has a variety of advantages.

For purchases that are not immediate, there are advantages to buying over the Internet for a lot of people. It seems that for the DIY enthusiast, there are likely more advantages buying over the Internet than there are for the pro.

Some people who are, or claim to be, professionals apparently have more time and tools than one would think are justifiable considering the cost of tools and the loss of time to use them that are obvious just by perusing this and other forums.

I try to consult with our customers to help them strike a balance that works for them. I think everybody on this forum should seek the same from their dealer(s). Festool strives to have dealers that can help.

Tom

 

[Notorious T.O.D.]

My store is a Woodcraft franchise store also and I also got the packaging story from one of the guys there as the reason they could not do it.  To me that sounded like total bs. Then when I went to buy it and he brings out the saw in its systainer and then says wait I have to go back and get your track.  And a minute later comes back with a track in its own box....which I suspect is how they all are packaged.  I can understand not changing out the one with the MFT3 as that is a packaged deal, but the saw, I guess I just don't follow the story or logic that they are trying to feed me.

So, I guess I will need to reconsider where I make some of my future purchases as I am not sure it is worth it for me to go out of my way to support the local guys if they are gonna treat me like that going forward.

Todd

 

[Bob Marino]

  Todd,

Perhaps those dealers aren't aware of allowing an exchange for the longer rail. All dealers have the option of doing so, some dealers may, some may not and again, some may not be aware that  they can do so.
  Maybe a word with the Woodcraft Manager there might work

Bob

 

[nickao]

There are reasons to go local and reasons not to go local. Everybody needs to decide for themselves which is better.

I have devoted local customers and the same is true of distant ones. I think people who find themselves in a position to need things in a couple of hours should try to have a local source that they like and who will give them good advice. Another reason to go local is the interpersonal, which has a variety of advantages.

For purchases that are not immediate, there are advantages to buying over the Internet for a lot of people. It seems that for the DIY enthusiast, there are likely more advantages buying over the Internet than there are for the pro.

Some people who are, or claim to be, professionals apparently have more time and tools than one would think are justifiable considering the cost of tools and the loss of time to use them that are obvious just by perusing this and other forums.

I try to consult with our customers to help them strike a balance that works for them. I think everybody on this forum should seek the same from their dealer(s). Festool strives to have dealers that can help.

Tom

Yikes Tom I disagree with the statement "For purchases that are not immediate, there are advantages to buying over the Internet for a lot of people. It seems that for the DIY enthusiast, there are likely more advantages buying over the Internet than there are for the pro". As a professional and when I ran crews the best thing that ever happened was the internet. The time it took me to go to a store, heck 1/2 the day was gone and the guys were then unsupervised. I think if anything more pros are going internet than anything and it is the homeowner and hobbyist going to the stores. Every pro I know HATES going to HD and HATES going to the tools stores during work hours.

And that statement "Some people who are, or claim to be, professionals apparently have more time and tools than one would think are justifiable considering the cost of tools and the loss of time to use them that are obvious just by perusing this and other forums" is completely outrages.

Do you often slap a potential customers face like that?

I am sitting here perusing this forum at 4:00 am I have been on here since 7:00 Pm. I  am in the shop waiting for the vacuum press to finish up right now. In addition I sold an inlay 15 minutes ago, all while perusing this forum with my so called extra time and tons of tools. A pro never has to many tools, I have no idea what that means. I have a 32" LCD right over my bench so I can monitor emails and the web site and this forum while I work. I think you need to realize that with the net the world is a different place and the work gets done in a different way. And some of us make 100% of the income on the net .

I do not like you calling anyone on this forum a liar. Anyone here that says they are a pro I believe them and if they are on this forum an unusual amount of time(by who's definition anyway) did you ever stop to think there is no work? In this economy I know at least 10 guys out of work in just this little town where I live. They are still pros even if they peruse this forum all day and night for the next 6 months.

If you are going to say stuff like that then call these people out right now or stop saying things like that.

Since I posted in this thread quite a bit I think I have the right to be  insulted by your insinuation. If you do not consider my work or my web site of a pro level that is your issue not mine. Just say what you mean and use names, don't insinuate someone is a liar like that, but not let them have a chance to make their own comments. Otherwise the wrong people may take it the wrong way, how the heck are we to know who you are talking about. If you do not want anyone to know who you are talking about than do not make statements like that at all.

 

[tbellemare]

I take your comments to heart, Nick. I also apologize if I offended anyone.

Please allow me to restate what I was thinking. It may make more sense...

I was trying to point out that if one is in a situation where things are needed quickly, having a local dealer can be beneficial relative to having to wait for a delivery. I use tools to do things for others and for my own benefit. If I'm making something for myself, it can almost always wait. If I'm working on a project for money and especially if there are other crafts involved, timing is generally critical and me holding things up costs more money than just what I am charging. I don't like going to HD but I'm glad they're close when I need them to keep a project moving.

I was also trying (obviously very poorly) to say that one's work can be streamlined with the right tools and that fewer tools can be better than more tools if they are the right ones. Everybody has a different working environment and different needs. If you are up and down a ladder all day, going light can be a lot more important than if you are in a shop.

Tom

 

[nickao]

I accept the apology.  If I overreacted I am sorry I have not slept since Sunday and am getting a little slap happy.

 

[ronhokenson]

Get the longer 1900mm Guide Rail if you can.  I bought the TS 55 saw and accepted it with the 1400mm rail and bought another 1400 rail and a pair of connectors.  I didn't know any better at that time, I hadn't discovered the good advice of many more experienced members of FOG.   Having an assortment of Guide Rail lengths will come in handy.  The 1900mm rail will save you having to join two rails together as often, thus saving you time.  The extra length will come in handy when cross cutting 4ftx8ft  sheet materials, you won't have to be as careful in placing the rail to ensure an adequate overhang and proper guidance of the saw.  When you need to rip pieces lengthwise or make a diagonal cut from 4ftx8ft sheet materials, again that extra length will come in handy.

Dave R.

Rookie festool question : My dealer sold me and extra 55" rail along with the 55" and 42" rail included in my package. I now have 2 55" rails. Dave, (or anyone), are you saying this is not enough rail to easily cut 4/8 sheetgoods ? I tried the 55" on a 4' piece of plywood and it ;looks to me that it is long enough, but maybe not any too long.

What is the feeling of the experts, is it better to start with a 55" and 75" rather than the two 55". I do have the 42 but want to leave it on the table.

Thanks in advance, I still have to make my first cut, ron

 

[Dave Ronyak]

Ron,

Two 1400mm rails joined together are long enough to ripcut the length of a 4ft x 8ft sheet, but having some excess length in front of the start of the cut and at the end of the cut ensures complete control of the saw.  Swapping one of the 1400mm rails for a 1900mm rail will provide that excess length.  Yes, you want to keep the shorter rail that comes with the MFT.  After having bought and used two 1400mm rails for some time with my TS 55, I bought a 3000mm rail for ripping sheet goods, and sometimes join it to one of my 1400mm rails to rip hardwood lumber.

Dave R.

 

[Notorious T.O.D.]

Ron,

I think that a 55 and a 75 would give you more room to spare on the ends if cutting the 8 ft length of a sheet.  If cutting on the diagonal of an 8 ft length of course you will need the length even more.  I am not sure you could cut on the diagonal without plunging with 2 55" tracks.

Best,
Todd

 

[mwhafner]

The 55' works fine with the TS55 for 4' cuts.  Join two together, and it would be ideal for 8' cuts.  

When I am breaking down sheet goods, I generally use a 1400 and 2700.  It works great.  

The 1900 rail does give you a little more rail to work with, but isn't essential.  I have one that I haven't even unwrapped it yet.

 

[Deke]

Allow me to pitch in my two cents. I bought the TS75 and as my only Festool saw, it is perfect. I have no idea how much lighter the 55 is, so I don't feel like I am missing anything and the TS75 works like a dream. Then again, my Popeye like forearms may be a result of this saw. Kidding!

Maybe the 55 does 95% of what you need, but what are you going to do that 5%? I don't have that worry. Second, you get a short rail with the MFT and each saw comes with a rail too. HOWEVER, the TS75 comes with a longer rail (75" or so) and with that and the MFT rail and connectors you can now rip full sheets of plywood. You would not have a full 8 feet of rip capacity with the 55 and MFT rail!

I mean the 75 is $100 or so more right? About the cost of that extra rail you would need (or less) with the 55. I say it pays for itself.

Finally, the clamps are awesome. Way too much fun. Get as many as you can afford. I know people like the quick clamps, but I have those and four screw clamps and the screw clamps are my go to. I also have the clamping elements. I know this is all $$$, but it makes the MFT what it was made for!

 

[Dave Ronyak]

You might also find a pair of DeWalt's guide rail clamps useful, too.  They fit the Festool  Guide Rails, channels in the side rails of the MFTs and any aluminum extrusions that can be used with 1/4 inch bolts.

I bought mine for use with the Festool Guide Rails, but have found them very useful for other purposes.  Unlike the Festool clamps, only one hand is needed to install them.  They are the best clamps I have found for use with the push jig on my JoinTech Cabinet Maker setup on my table saw and router table.
Jointech Pusher Jig  The DeWalt clamps are much faster and easier to use than the little clamp shown in the above photo.  I also frequently use them to hold workpieces to the side rails of my MFT.

Dave R.

 

[trimdude]

Where did you get the DeWalt clamps?