Glue-less Domino Dowel for Festool

[The Interior Cafe]

Can I ask what exactly makes this better than using a normal domino and screw with a slightly offset hole to act as a draw bore tenon?

If you make a cabinet, you are not able to put a screw on both sides. If you try to put a screw in a 16mm sheet in the thickness, it will rip it apart. 

When your pieces are both in the same direction you can put a screw in the domino. But you will soon notice it will be very wobbly since the domino itself is not connected to your pieces.

I'm sure it is possible if you glue them and instead of a clamp use the screws.

Please try it out and you will understand what i mean 

 

[bobfog]

Yes I should have been more explicit. I meant with one side glued. I guess that wouldn't be glue less, which is half the point I guess.

 

[The Interior Cafe]

Yes I should have been more explicit. I meant with one side glued. I guess that wouldn't be glue less, which is half the point I guess.

No problem  But any way, some people prefer the one, some people prefer the other. Everybody has their favourites.
Time is running late here in Finland and its times to spend some quality time with my daughter. We are making a domino track from wooden Festool Dowels  [big grin]

 

[jmbfestool]

Can I ask what exactly makes this better than using a normal domino and screw with a slightly offset hole to act as a draw bore tenon?

Dont want to offend you but....... That ------^ is retarded

 

[jimbo51]

One problem with the single screw draw bore idea is that all the force would be concentrated on the interface of the edge of the screw and 5-6 mm of wood (or plywood). The threads could act as little cutting edges if there was stress on the joint. This could cause the wood to weaken at the key holding area.

 

[Michael Kellough]

Do the Dominofix accept glue?

 

[The Interior Cafe]

One problem with the single screw draw bore idea is that all the force would be concentrated on the interface of the edge of the screw and 5-6 mm of wood (or plywood). The threads could act as little cutting edges if there was stress on the joint. This could cause the wood to weaken at the key holding area.

Hi,

It doesn't not affect to the wood because the Dominofix is attached with screws inside the slots.
There is no force/movement coming on the little hole in the wood where you put the locking screw

 

[The Interior Cafe]

Do the Dominofix accept glue?

If you would use some construction glue, yes. Not wood glue!

 

[jmbfestool]

Do the Dominofix accept glue?

If you would use some construction glue, yes. Not wood glue!

I dont know how snug the Dominofix are and if they are smooth or not but if it does have a little texture on the surface the wood glue will will act as a key and if it does have a little wiggle room the wood glue will set hard and elimante any remaining wiggle room which surly wil improve it slightly.

BUT!!  suggesting construction glue.....?  Is not a good idea at all in fact extremly bad Idea.  Look at some questions people ask you -----^  You will have less proffesional people in a mess.
Unless what you call construction glue is different to what we call construction glue.
Its far to thick! It sets a skin quickly and you wouldn't use it to glue two pieces of wood together.
So you would be applying wood glue to the edge and construction glue onto domiofix..... Pain in the ass and a high risk of joint not pulling up or construction glue going everywhere which never wipes of easy on wood.

 

[The Interior Cafe]

Do the Dominofix accept glue?

If you would use some construction glue, yes. Not wood glue!

I dont know how snug the Dominofix are and if they are smooth or not but if it does have a little texture on the surface the wood glue will will act as a key and if it does have a little wiggle room the wood glue will set hard and elimante any remaining wiggle room which surly wil improve it slightly.

BUT!!  suggesting construction glue.....?  Is not a good idea at all in fact extremly bad Idea.  Look at some questions people ask you -----^  You will have less proffesional people in a mess.
Unless what you call construction glue is different to what we call construction glue.
Its far to thick! It sets a skin quickly and you wouldn't use it to glue two pieces of wood together.
So you would be applying wood glue to the edge and construction glue onto domiofix..... Pain in the  and a high risk of joint not pulling up or construction glue going everywhere which never wipes of easy on wood.

Then we have a different kind of construction glue
No glue is needed because of what you said, the texture on the sides makes the Dominofix fit nice and snug.

If you want that your joint is permanent, you can always add Festool wooden dowels and use Dominofix as a replacement for clamps, many of our clients are buying Dominofix for that reason. Or to have them easily assembled on the job site. The 8mm Dominofix is easily drilled with standard settings of the DF 500. The male part is drilled with 12mm dept and the female part with 28mm dept. With those same settings you drill holes for the 8x40 wooden dowels (they are actually 38mm long) For the 10mm Dominofix you would need to re-adjust your depth settings if you want to combine wooden dowels.

 

[CrazyLarry]

I've looked in on this thread with quite a keen interest, I do think there is a market (or three) for connectors using DF500 size holes, leveraging the ease, accuracy and repeatability of the domino to build both kd fittings cabinets and hybrid ones.

That said this doesn't seem to be the product to do it. It seems a muddled fudge creating as many problems / steps as it solves failing to utilise the domino's strengths and diluting them in fact.

What I would have hoped for (expected) was a connector that needs no tooling other than the domino in my hands, needs no change of cutter and minimal number of setting changes for use with the wooden dowel either side of it... for example: panel A to panel B 5 domino holes in each joining edge, all depth x in A and depth y in B with wooden dowels to go in centre and outside holes, drill access hole for securing / tightening connectors with same domino bit only needing to change depth and edge offset once.

Fit two halves of connectors to either side, marry up panels, tighten connectors, check for true... done.

Any other pathway is more work than the existing options!!!

Having no cam or pulling force, needing to change settings and cutters, needing to use glue and clamps all mean you'ld be better off without the dominofix and using an existing option for example hafale red jig / drill for cam connectors and df500 for dominos, both set up once and needing no changes throughout.

Those with a CNC like JMB may have a different set of needs but I suspect there are more domino owners without a CNC than with

 

[The Interior Cafe]

I've looked in on this thread with quite a keen interest, I do think there is a market (or three) for connectors using DF500 size holes, leveraging the ease, accuracy and repeatability of the domino to build both kd fittings cabinets and hybrid ones.

That said this doesn't seem to be the product to do it. It seems a muddled fudge creating as many problems / steps as it solves failing to utilise the domino's strengths and diluting them in fact.

What I would have hoped for (expected) was a connector that needs no tooling other than the domino in my hands, needs no change of cutter and minimal number of setting changes for use with the wooden dowel either side of it... for example: panel A to panel B 5 domino holes in each joining edge, all depth x in A and depth y in B with wooden dowels ito go n centre and outside holes, drill access hole for securing / tightening connectors with same domino bit only needing to change depth and edge offset once.

Fit two halves of connectors to either side, marry up panels, tighten connectors, check for true... done.

Any other pathway is more work than the existing options!!!

Having no cam or pulling force, needing to change settings and cutters, needing to use glue and clamps all mean you'ld be better off without the dominofix and using an existing option for example hafale red jig / drill for cam connectors and df500 for dominos, both set up once and needing no changes throughout.

Those with a CNC like JMB may have a different set of needs but I suspect there are more domino owners without a CNC than with

I don't really understand what you mean... There is no change in bits. There is no change in tools... The reason why there is no cam function has been explained in details... There is no glue needed...

What you posted:
Fit two halves of connectors to either side, marry up panels, tighten connectors, check for true... done.

Is the only thing you need to do with Dominofix and all drilling is done with standard depth settings...

 

[CrazyLarry]

I don't really understand what you mean... There is no change in bits. There is no change in tools... The reason why there is no cam function has been explained in details... There is no glue needed...

What you posted:
Fit two halves of connectors to either side, marry up panels, tighten connectors, check for true... done.

Is the only thing you need to do with Dominofix and all drilling is done with standard depth settings...

Two scenarios:
1) two panels equal thickness (18mm (at least) is the norm unless you're trying to compete with ****** & *********)
right angles to one another. One depth for vert panel one depth for horiz, so only one setting change needed

2) two panels equal thickness edge to edge one depth fitting for all

Dominofix needs no more than this? But has no cam or pulling force and needs a drilling jig to fix with screws into both sides rather than using the domino to make neat matching holes? And will also need squares and clamps?

 

[The Interior Cafe]

I don't really understand what you mean... There is no change in bits. There is no change in tools... The reason why there is no cam function has been explained in details... There is no glue needed...

What you posted:
Fit two halves of connectors to either side, marry up panels, tighten connectors, check for true... done.

Is the only thing you need to do with Dominofix and all drilling is done with standard depth settings...

Two scenarios:
1) two panels equal thickness (18mm (at least) is the norm unless you're trying to compete with ****** & *********)
right angles to one another. One depth for vert panel one depth for horiz, so only one setting change needed

2) two panels equal thickness edge to edge one depth fitting for all

Dominofix needs no more than this? But has no cam or pulling force and needs a drilling jig to fix with screws into both sides rather than using the domino to make neat matching holes? And will also need squares and clamps?

Dominofix 8mm minimum thickness in material is 16mm (as mentioned on the website)
Dominofix 10mm minimum thickness in material 18mm (as mentioned on the website)

Scenario 1:

Depth for vertical panel (female part) is standard dept setting 28mm (no other depth possible)
Depth for horizontal panel (male part) is standard dept setting 12mm

Scenario 2:

Edge to edge: Female part has to be in 28mm dept. Male part can be also drilled in 28mm dept because the part cannot go deeper because of its form.

You need to drill a hole in only one slot. With opted for this because you now only get a small hole. You can also make a big hole with your domino, because the hole inside the wood does not affect the strength of the tightening but the Dominofix does.

It has no cam with clamping force, as mentioned in previous posts with the reasons why. It tightens because the holes are offset.

If you material is bend hard, which occurs sometimes with raw plywood, we advise to use a clamp before. When your material is more or less straight, the tightening screw pulls it on place.

 

[The Interior Cafe]

I also want to point out that we try to bring out a good product in addition to other alternatives on the market and to have an add on for Festool Domino DF 500 and alternative routed slots. We know that we cannot satisfy everybody. Some like Festool, Some like Lamello, Some like Mafell, Some like DeWalt, Some like boys, Some like girls...

 

[Kev]

I also want to point out that we try to bring out a good product in addition to other alternatives on the market and to have an add on for Festool Domino DF 500 and alternative routed slots. We know that we cannot satisfy everybody. Some like Festool, Some like Lamello, Some like Mafell, Some like DeWalt, Some like boys, Some like girls...

YEP - some people certainly do like different types of connectors [wink] [big grin]

 

[CrazyLarry]

Dominofix 8mm minimum thickness in material is 16mm (as mentioned on the website)
Dominofix 10mm minimum thickness in material 18mm (as mentioned on the website)

Scenario 1:

Depth for vertical panel (female part) is standard dept setting 28mm (no other depth possible)
Depth for horizontal panel (male part) is standard dept setting 12mm

Scenario 2:

Edge to edge: Female part has to be in 28mm dept. Male part can be also drilled in 28mm dept because the part cannot go deeper because of its form.

You need to drill a hole in only one slot. With opted for this because you now only get a small hole. You can also make a big hole with your domino, because the hole inside the wood does not affect the strength of the tightening but the Dominofix does.

It has no cam with clamping force, as mentioned in previous posts with the reasons why. It tightens because the holes are offset.

If you material is bend hard, which occurs sometimes with raw plywood, we advise to use a clamp before. When your material is more or less straight, the tightening screw pulls it on place.

Nowhere near as bad as I thought then. But it does still seem a little inelegant to me, pushfit connectors similar to jmb's suggestions (blum drawer gallery rail) to eliminate the screws and an allen key tightened cam or spline driven lock would give your product an undeniable edge.

Trying to be constuctive here... I like the idea and have looked at the previous attempts made by others but I can't help thinking a little more complexity in engineering will pay off in simplicity of use which would make it much more compelling especially from a commercial perspective.

Take the screws v cam / spline other lock / grab / expansion approach it's not just about whether clamping is necc in some cases or not.,..

Single frame 4 corners domiinofix needs 8 connectors, 32 body screws and 8 locking screws
A cam / spline / grab with a locking allen screw would only need 4 connectors the other 4 could be wooden dominos due to clamp action so there are only 4 screws to tighten 1/10th of the effort! Now make a dozen of those and you've saved a half day.

 

[The Interior Cafe]

Dominofix 8mm minimum thickness in material is 16mm (as mentioned on the website)
Dominofix 10mm minimum thickness in material 18mm (as mentioned on the website)

Scenario 1:

Depth for vertical panel (female part) is standard dept setting 28mm (no other depth possible)
Depth for horizontal panel (male part) is standard dept setting 12mm

Scenario 2:

Edge to edge: Female part has to be in 28mm dept. Male part can be also drilled in 28mm dept because the part cannot go deeper because of its form.

You need to drill a hole in only one slot. With opted for this because you now only get a small hole. You can also make a big hole with your domino, because the hole inside the wood does not affect the strength of the tightening but the Dominofix does.

It has no cam with clamping force, as mentioned in previous posts with the reasons why. It tightens because the holes are offset.

If you material is bend hard, which occurs sometimes with raw plywood, we advise to use a clamp before. When your material is more or less straight, the tightening screw pulls it on place.

Nowhere near as bad as I thought then. But it does still seem a little inelegant to me, pushfit connectors similar to jmb's suggestions (blum drawer gallery rail) to eliminate the screws and an allen key tightened cam or spline driven lock would give your product an undeniable edge.

Trying to be constuctive here... I like the idea and have looked at the previous attempts made by others but I can't help thinking a little more complexity in engineering will pay off in simplicity of use which would make it much more compelling especially from a commercial perspective.

Take the screws v cam / spline other lock / grab / expansion approach it's not just about whether clamping is necc in some cases or not.,..

Single frame 4 corners domiinofix needs 8 connectors, 32 body screws and 8 locking screws
A cam / spline / grab with a locking allen screw would only need 4 connectors the other 4 could be wooden dominos due to clamp action so there are only 4 screws to tighten 1/10th of the effort! Now make a dozen of those and you've saved a half day.

Push fit connectors are not strong enough in this case because of how the force is acting. A possibility was to have a push fit with a screw inside like some hinges, but having normal screws had a stronger results because of the thread. Again because of how the force acts, thats also why it is possible with hinges and drawers. To make a proper cam, there would be more space required in the models, which we don't have. We also had to make it so it would be good in an overall picture, if we would have gone for the cam, the joint itself would be very weak.

Dominofix is also not made for the heavy duty work such as for the Festool ones. We are also not planning to make any for the same application area's as Festool, we dont want to compete against them, but add an addition for Domino and an alternative to other brands.

Once we have them in stock we can make a detailed product video and it will explain a lot of things. We only have those models in a different material and we don't want to use them for the product videos.

I do really appreciate all those comments and questions!

As i posted in the Festool Talk Group on FB:
Hi guys! We need your help! For those that have been following the Dominofix topic on FOG have seen that there have been a lot of questions rising up about it. All have been answered but we would like to add an FAQ with those Q&A to our website.
The problem is that we see Dominofix from a different point of view then our clients because we have been working on it for almost a year so we kind of know it inside out and many things what are logic for us are of course not for the client. Please comment on this post any questions you might have so we know to add them on our FAQ page! I will also try to answer them all on here and FOG. Thanks a lot in advance!

 

[Kev]

Just a random thought while all this is going on ... a concealed Domino friendly hinge of some sort would be cool [wink] [big grin]

 

[The Interior Cafe]

Just a random thought while all this is going on ... a concealed Domino friendly hinge of some sort would be cool [wink] [big grin]

That's our next project depending on the success of these ones