Goodbye and good luck.

[Bob Swenson]

Wouldn't it be funny if Festool owned that other forum  ???

 

[graphex]

Wouldn't it be funny if Festool owned that other forum  ???

Wouldn't bother me either way.

What bothers me is when one person has all the control over a community. Absolute power corrupts absolutely.

 

[Tom the Remodeler]

Are we going to ban members for mentioning ANY other forums, or just tF? What about JLC, Woodweb, etc?

 

[graphex]

I'd probably be more accustomed to this sort of thing if I lived in China.

 

[Mirko]

So, if I am active in both, I create a tutorial, I decide to post elsewhere...
Now tell me this, If some one links to it on this forum... are they banned??

If so, I think this place is up shit creek with out a paddle.

Matthew you may have the guns... but we have the numbers, and you can't stop the flow of information, its just a fact... face it.

Mirko

 

[graphex]

I hope Matthew doesn't decide to go all Tiananmen Square up in here. I'm the kind to stand in front of a tank if that is what it takes.

[attachimg=#]

Sounds like mentioning the other forum for him is like getting dental work done. As I recommended in a very professional email I sent to Matthew earlier today, responding by squelching speech - even if you disagree with it - is the wrong move for the sole administrator of a community driven forum.

 

[Matthew Schenker]

Are we going to ban members for mentioning ANY other forums, or just tF? What about JLC, Woodweb, etc?

As I explained, mentioning other forums is not a problem.  In fact, I have always been quite happy to have people link with other forums here.  The issue is when people promote another forum by abusing the PM system, and by attempting to degrade this forum with personal attacks.  There's a big difference.  No other administrator in any other forum would put up with that, and I am no longer putting up with it either.

Like I said, as long as the people at the other forum spread their rumors offline, and even when they abused the FOG PM system, I tolerated it quietly.  But when they come to the FOG boards to do it, they crossed a red line.

Matthew

 

[Jack Rafter]

graphex,

Odds are if you stand in front of a rolling tank you are going to get run over. I really don't know what all the "stuff" is that's going on here, but I'd like to remind you that Matthew was the guy who made this place happen.

The bottom line is you should have respect for him just for that alone regardless of his style of management.

 

[graphex]

graphex,

Odds are if you stand in front of a rolling tank you are going to get run over. I really don't know what all the "stuff" is that's going on here, but I'd like to remind you that Matthew was the guy who made this place happen.

The bottom line is you should have respect for him just for that alone regardless of his style of management.

I'm glad that Matthew set up a forum for Festool owners. However, I contend that all the content here is community driven. I'm not sure that I've even read a how-to by Matthew. Ok maybe one or two.

What I would like to see is better respect from Matthew for the community who actually makes this place happen. I know setting up and running a forum is technically challenging, (I build websites for a living) but it is also challenging to balance power centers within a community, and that is where I believe Matthew is failing.

A community has been formed here, and I think what we're seeing in a summer-long trend for threads like this one is the communities' displeasure with a class of actions performed by Matthew, and the eventual collective frustration that one guy is essentially attempting to do what several should. There are people in the community who hate Matthew, and there are people who really like him. Maintaining absolute control over the forum appears to remain a goal of his, but I hope he eventually decides to cede at least some of his power, in the interest of lessening the current conflict.

Based on the tone of his earlier post, and the mention of rumors and whatnot, I don't think Matthew can really provide the neutrality that the FOG needs to maintain its integrity and openness. Many of the recent departures from the FOG were long-term members who arguably contributed as much as Matthew. I don't believe they've left because of speculation or rumor, but because of the management. Sometimes just because of a little argument.

So I would say that for me, Matthew is losing my respect because of his style of management, and if he wants to earn that back, he's going to have to do things to earn it. Whether is it delegating some moderation to people who can maintain their neutrality better, or forgiving the abhorrent use of the PM system by TF members, or banning fewer long-term members because of a personal disagreement, I think the ball is in his court for this one.

 

[Ron Dunn]

I think back over when all these problems started, and it was about the time that people started to question the objectivity of the free tool crowd. You know who I mean ... the "reviewers" who act as Festool cheer-leaders in response for having their workshops stocked free of charge. Their integrity was starting to be questioned, and it was easier to run away to a new town.

It got a little worse when problems started to emerge with Kapex. Where were the cheer-leaders? How many of them posted addenda to their "reviews", or comments in their blogs, discussing the problems? Oh no! Let's get off to a new place where the "club" doesn't question, only cheers.

Then we had the attention seekers. The forum whores who'll go anywhere their quirky double-spacing and random line lengths will draw them a little fan club. The wannabe free-toolies who think that if they cheer loud enough, they too will get on the gravy train. They're easy to recruit to the club, easy gang fodder. Heck, offer them a Moderator's role and they'd carve up their own mother.

There has been a concerted campaign to disrupt this forum. It disgusts me when I see those who have created the tension and the dissent popping up in other places with their "Gee, this place feels nice", and "How good it feels to be somewhere friendly". Of course, they can't go quietly, they have to make little self-righteous good-bye posts to try and hide their real motives.

Look into the motivation behind what is happening, and you'll get a much better understanding of the character of those involved.

 

[graphex]

Wow, Ron, your 9th post and you've got it all figured out.

 

[Ron Dunn]

You don't have to make hundreds of posts to see what is going on here.

 

[Jack Rafter]

I had a friend once who said to me "Heavy is the head that wears the crown". It takes a certain amount of life experiences to really know what that means.

There is no way that 1 or even 100 moderators are going to manage the needs of 10,000 members, there will always be conflicts. All that the delegation of power does is put more cops on the corners to quickly see what's going on that's not in the rules. Who makes theses rules, the management which would still happen to be Matthew.

With the addition of more moderators also comes the possibility of more conflicts with the different moderators. The community, as you call it, seems to know exactly what it gets from the current manager.

Simply because you vest yourself in a certain place (in this case an internet forum) by being a contributor, it doesn't give you the right to dictate policy, it give you the right to contribute and if done respectfully, voice an opinion.  The management can take it into account or dismiss it, it's the managements call.

It might help think of these forums more like bars, if you like the bar because all the hot girls hang out there, you put up with the management (regardless how sucky it is) because, well the hot girls are there. If the bar has no hot girls and the management sucks, there really may  be  no good reason to hang out there.

 

[graphex]

You know who I mean ... the "reviewers" who act as Festool cheer-leaders in response for having their workshops stocked free of charge. Their integrity was starting to be questioned, and it was easier to run away to a new town.

Not sure who you mean - John Lucas or Jerry Work? Haven't met either of 'em, but you're right, they're horribly corrupt, awful folks.

It got a little worse when problems started to emerge with Kapex. Where were the cheer-leaders? How many of them posted addenda to their "reviews", or comments in their blogs, discussing the problems? Oh no! Let's get off to a new place where the "club" doesn't question, only cheers.

Sing it, man. So glad I never bought a Kapex! And those people who like theirs - what are they crazy? lol

Then we had the attention seekers. The forum whores who'll go anywhere their quirky double-spacing and random line lengths will draw them a little fan club. The wannabe free-toolies who think that if they cheer loud enough, they too will get on the gravy train. They're easy to recruit to the club, easy gang fodder. Heck, offer them a Moderator's role and they'd carve up their own mother.

Right on the mark again. I'm guessing you mean Per Swenson. The nerve of that guy. I think it is obvious he wants minions. Oh and free tools. (I think his dad is the same way) And right on again - I think everyone dreams of having the Moderator's Key - being able to delete messages and ban at will. THE POWER! My only hope is that it is used for good over there, and not evil.

There has been a concerted campaign to disrupt this forum. It disgusts me when I see those who have created the tension and the dissent popping up in other places with their "Gee, this place feels nice", and "How good it feels to be somewhere friendly". Of course, they can't go quietly, they have to make little self-righteous good-bye posts to try and hide their real motives.

Look into the motivation behind what is happening, and you'll get a much better understanding of the character of those involved.

I think the Germans might be behind this. My guess is that several key members were taken to the festool 'education' center (which I hear is out in the desert of nevada). They were brainwashed and turned in to evil lords sent to disrupt the Festool Owners Group and try to get their owner to cede power to them. Man, I didn't even consider that until now, but you're right. Wasn't Per there too? That is probably why he has the motivation to get minions - this is starting to be more clear.

But who is behind it? Is it the Germans like I suspect, or, maybe a Festool dealer?

 

[Jack Rafter]

Ron,

I thought that it was a most insightful post.

 

[ericbuggeln]

My laptop stopped working about a month ago and I beat the hell out of it in the back yard like any sane person would do.  I decided to use the opportunity to take a chat forum hiatus from FOG, TF, JLC, Sawmill, all of which I checked daily.  The negativity was outweighing the knowledge gained or at least interfearing with ones related to Festool.  This was the first topic I saw when I scrolled down to recent posts.  I guess some things aren't gonna change.  Maybe once I get a new laptop things will have changed for the better, eric 

 

[graphex]

It might help think of these forums more like bars, if you like the bar because all the hot girls hang out there, you put up with the management (regardless how sucky it is) because, well the hot girls are there. If the bar has no hot girls and the management sucks, there really may  be  no good reason to hang out there.

Well put. There are some hot girls here, but I dunno about the management. Still, there are the peanuts and trail mix.

Simply because you vest yourself in a certain place (in this case an internet forum) by being a contributor, it doesn't give you the right to dictate policy, it give you the right to contribute and if done respectfully, voice an opinion.  The management can take it into account or dismiss it, it's the managements call.

I think that the issue here isn't the inmates running the asylum, it is more a lack of mutual respect. Matthew has banned a number of people I respect more than him, and I don't think that would have happened if he wasn't the only moderator. Once again, it is his respect for the membership that I am questioning.

 

[EricL]

Wouldn't it be funny if Festool owned that other forum  ???

Why Bob?  Why exactly would that be funny?  I can't think of one scenario where it would be funny.  Oh wait, would it be funny because it could mean the demise of this forum?  Is that what you and the others want Bob?  
Why is that?  Because the forum Admin here requested input from the members on a contractor designation and then after weighing their input, decided not to implement it?  What an evil bastard he is.  
Or maybe because of the karma thing?  Because the forum Admin here turned it on and requested input from the members on it and after they weighed in, he turned it off?  What an evil bastard he is, he deserves all of the work he has put into this forum to be destroyed for it.  Is that is Bob?
Or is it that a few members think they should dictate what the owner of the forum should do?  Are these people so immature, so childish that they cannot disagree with the forum Admin and still participate?  Or are they just so filled with hate for the forum admin that they want to bring him down?  
Or maybe the most quoted reason, he banned some people who went well beyond just making suggestions or voicing their opinions and attacked him openly, calling him names and questioning his honesty in the open forum.  Do you really think these people wanted to solve a problem or did they just want to make their stand?  As I recall, one openly egged him on to ban him.  What an evil bastard.
How would you have reacted to such criticism Bob?  As others have said, there is more here than what meets the eye.  If you can't see that, maybe you should refrain from posting such funny comments.

 

[graphex]

Wouldn't it be funny if Festool owned that other forum  ???

Why Bob?  Why exactly would that be funny?  I can't think of one scenario where it would be funny.  Oh wait, would it be funny because it could mean the demise of this forum?  Is that what you and the others want Bob?  
...etc....

Wow, now there is some pent up hostility. And on your sixth post no less. Let it out man, that's been building inside you for a while. Focus on your anger and visualize it as a spinning saw blade cutting in to Bob's left middle finger. Now don't you feel better?

 

[Les]

Man I'll bet that evil czar Dino is getting a good laugh over this. People who have made 6 and 10 posts are kissing the admin's ass while people who had made over 1400 posts are banned. He just got the shit started now he's letting others finish it.

Keep the fires burning guys you are just stirring the post. Rome is burning and there ain't a firefighter in sight.

Man I miss that peer rating.