Goodbye and good luck.

[Daviddubya]

Wow, now there is some pent up hostility...

Are you talking to yourself?

 

[Ron Dunn]

I like to think my post count will ALWAYS be low. I prefer listening (reading) to speaking (writing) - I find I learn more that way.

 

[graphex]

Man I'll bet that evil czar Dino is getting a good laugh over this. People who have made 6 and 10 posts are kissing the admin's ass while people who had made over 1400 posts are banned. He just got the shit started now he's letting others finish it.

That is a bit odd, isn't it. When I go to other forums and see threads like this I don't usually pick a side. Actually, when I have only posted a half dozen times, I don't even know the context like these guys do. I can think of 3 reasons this would happen here, and it could be that all three of them are happening at once. Man, I'd love to see the IP logs here.

 

[graphex]

Wow, now there is some pent up hostility...

Are you talking to yourself?

No, I'm seriously not. You either mean that like I'm also posting as EricL, or I'm trying to be hostile. Neither is happening, but I would venture a guess that there is something going on between the lines here that isn't immediately apparent without IP logs...

 

[Ron Dunn]

59.101.234.122
(that is in Australia)

My comments have nothing to do with any other tool or maker. If you are referring to EZ, I don't own any of their product, I don't know the owner, and in other forums I've been critical of their actions. My posts on that topic are easy to find, I use the same name in the few forums where I post.

 

[EricL]

Wouldn't it be funny if Festool owned that other forum  ???

Why Bob?  Why exactly would that be funny?  I can't think of one scenario where it would be funny.  Oh wait, would it be funny because it could mean the demise of this forum?  Is that what you and the others want Bob?  
...etc....

Wow, now there is some pent up hostility. And on your sixth post no less. Let it out man, that's been building inside you for a while. Focus on your anger and visualize it as a spinning saw blade cutting in to Bob's left middle finger. Now don't you feel better?

Graphex, graphex, graphex, how did I know you would reply?  As I have stated previously, I have followed this forum since the yahoo days.  I just recently purchased my first Festool products and have been catching up here.  I love how your type always tries to divert the focus.  What Bob wrote was far more hostile than anything I wrote.  But lets let that lie.

What is your motivation?  In a previous post you said you have spoken to Chris on the phone regarding a business issue.  Who are you working for?  I know for a fact that you are a big fan of Timmy.  You see, I don't just run my mouth, I do research first.  I know you have purchased from him and wrote glowingly about him.  Have you done web/graphics work for him as well?  Several of the recent aggitators on this site have also been customers/affiliated with him.  Please see my previous post for more on what I am implying.  

I can't help but notice your recurring theme that Matthew should respect the members more.  I really don't see how he can.  But I certainly see how the members can respect him more.  If I was him, I would hit the delete button on every one of these threads but he is more patient than me.  

You have made your point time and again, at this juncture you are just being redundant.  Like the little tank graphic btw.
Your pal,
Eric

 

[graphex]

I like to think my post count will ALWAYS be low. I prefer listening (reading) to speaking (writing) - I find I learn more that way.

This particular thread stopped being educational long ago. Well, maybe it never was. It is essentially a simple flame war right now, but we're getting some good diversity of posters in here. I think it is to be expected any time a 700+ poster and judge in a forum-wide contest is banned.

 

[graphex]

Graphex, graphex, graphex, how did I know you would reply?  As I have stated previously, I have followed this forum since the yahoo days.  I just recently purchased my first Festool products and have been catching up here.  I love how your type always tries to divert the focus.  What Bob wrote was far more hostile than anything I wrote.  But lets let that lie.

What is your motivation?  In a previous post you said you have spoken to Chris on the phone regarding a business issue.  Who are you working for?  I know for a fact that you are a big fan of Timmy.  You see, I don't just run my mouth, I do research first.  I know you have purchased from him and wrote glowingly about him.  Have you done web/graphics work for him as well?  Several of the recent aggitators on this site have also been customers/affiliated with him.  Please see my previous post for more on what I am implying.  

I can't help but notice your recurring theme that Matthew should respect the members more.  I really don't see how he can.  But I certainly see how the members can respect him more.  If I was him, I would hit the delete button on every one of these threads but he is more patient than me.  

You have made your point time and again, at this juncture you are just being redundant.  Like the little tank graphic btw.
Your pal,
Eric

I commend you for your research. So the deal with Chris was that he wanted me to give him an estimate on doing his website. Sites like that tend to be more trouble than they're worth, but I quoted him something in the neighborhood of $5k, and he decided not to use me.

Yes, I've purchased about half my tools from TimmyC and don't have complaints. When he was in town talking to his web folks (who are in denver) I had lunch with him and he paid (although I awkwardly offered to pay for mine). To the extent that I don't exactly know his involvement in TalkFestool, I was offered the position of "moderator" of their computer stuff section, which I declined. During my paid-for lunch with TimmyC he mentioned something about doing some web stuff, but I'm honestly doubtful that anything will come of it.

From what I can tell through self-assessment, my motivation here is essentially to try to get Matthew to stop banning people whose presence I miss. I'm sure there are secondary motivations, but they're more things like:
-It would be nice if more people ran this board and we wouldn't have to worry about another July 4th episode happening
-Matthew deleted some of my posts and I didn't like it

But I really have no interest in recruiting people to buy from FestoolJunkie or for Dino EZ whatever. You may have correctly identified my "type" - I am a bit of a gossip. I try not to be mean to people, but I do love myself a good flame war. I'd say it is on par with watching the olympics. Although, you may have to wait until tomorrow if this goes much longer for another response, because I'm about to see what my TiVo recorded today.

I don't think this thread is long for this world. It's likely to get locked and moved into the dustbin or whatever soon.

 

[Jack Rafter]

graphex,

Plato once wrote "Wise man speak because they have something to say, fools because they have to say something".

Now I'm not sure who the wise man and the fools are, but I don't believe post count should be and indicator of the value of one's post. I think that this continues because  people like a good scrum every now and then.

 

[woodtradesman]

You know who I mean ... the "reviewers" who act as Festool cheer-leaders in response for having their workshops stocked free of charge. Their integrity was starting to be questioned, and it was easier to run away to a new town.

Not sure who you mean - John Lucas or Jerry Work? Haven't met either of 'em, but you're right, they're horribly corrupt, awful folks.

It got a little worse when problems started to emerge with Kapex. Where were the cheer-leaders? How many of them posted addenda to their "reviews", or comments in their blogs, discussing the problems? Oh no! Let's get off to a new place where the "club" doesn't question, only cheers.

Sing it, man. So glad I never bought a Kapex! And those people who like theirs - what are they crazy? lol

Then we had the attention seekers. The forum whores who'll go anywhere their quirky double-spacing and random line lengths will draw them a little fan club. The wannabe free-toolies who think that if they cheer loud enough, they too will get on the gravy train. They're easy to recruit to the club, easy gang fodder. Heck, offer them a Moderator's role and they'd carve up their own mother.

Right on the mark again. I'm guessing you mean Per Swenson. The nerve of that guy. I think it is obvious he wants minions. Oh and free tools. (I think his dad is the same way) And right on again - I think everyone dreams of having the Moderator's Key - being able to delete messages and ban at will. THE POWER! My only hope is that it is used for good over there, and not evil.

There has been a concerted campaign to disrupt this forum. It disgusts me when I see those who have created the tension and the dissent popping up in other places with their "Gee, this place feels nice", and "How good it feels to be somewhere friendly". Of course, they can't go quietly, they have to make little self-righteous good-bye posts to try and hide their real motives.

Look into the motivation behind what is happening, and you'll get a much better understanding of the character of those involved.

I think the Germans might be behind this. My guess is that several key members were taken to the festool 'education' center (which I hear is out in the desert of nevada). They were brainwashed and turned in to evil lords sent to disrupt the Festool Owners Group and try to get their owner to cede power to them. Man, I didn't even consider that until now, but you're right. Wasn't Per there too? That is probably why he has the motivation to get minions - this is starting to be more clear.

But who is behind it? Is it the Germans like I suspect, or, maybe a Festool dealer?

So graphex, are you being sarcastic there or have you always been jealous of Per?

Just wondering

 

[graphex]

graphex,

Plato once wrote "Wise man speak because they have something to say, fools because they have to say something".

Now I'm not sure who the wise man and the fools are, but I don't believe post count should be and indicator of the value of one's post. I think that this continues because  people like a good scrum every now and then.

I believe Voltaire said "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." (although perhaps Evelyn Beatrice Hall said it first) and I think that sums up my attitude towards the banning and deleting.

Post count isn't an absolute indicator of one's value, but there is some correlation. I was honestly an advocate of the karma system in the interest of having more gauges. Maybe SMC will implement a post rating system, which I think people here would appreciate. Obviously this thread would have a decreasing number of positive votes.

 

[graphex]

So graphex, are you being sarcastic there or have you always been jealous of Per?

Just wondering

What can I say, both.  ;D

 

[woodtradesman]

well joking aside, I believe the banning of Eiji san was a bit harsh,  It was very immature of him to repeat post the way he did though.

 

[Jack Rafter]

I'm one for a good quote and this one I believes sums up the nature of  this thread.

"Inferiors revolt in order that they may be equal, and equals revolt that they may be superior."

Aristotle

 

[woodtradesman]

so in a nutshell its human nature then?

 

[Jack Rafter]

WTM,

I'm not sure if you addressed that to me, but I'd say maybe not human nature, but it sure looks like it here and now.

 

[woodtradesman]

Joe.

See, thats why I don't follow philosophy too much. Anyhow, if you meant to say that humans revolt to move in rank then its only human. Thats why communism/socialism look good in theory but don't work so well in real life.

 

[peter halle]

Gentlemen:

Speculating on what has happened will not change things.  It will just wera and tear on the finger tips.  There are many who have posted that I and we will miss in this forum.  Some banned, some who decided that they would say good bye.  Frankly, this thread is kind of like being a visitor to your own wake.  I say that because as  I write this there are quite a few who have recently said good bye who are visiting this site and possibly this thread.  To those I say thank you to all your positive contributions.

Peter

 

[Groggy]

Interesting thread. Over the years those on Usenet and forums have seen splits occur on a regular basis, it happens. The important thing is what happens to the forums after the split, do you dust yourself off and get on with it, or do you wallow in introspection and blame?

It isn't worth it, the best and longest surviving forums just get on with it, this forum should do the same.

 

[Matthew Schenker]

Everyone,
Ron, Joe, Eric, and Peter have put their finger on crucial issues here regarding TF.  In short, that forum was set up as a protest to the Festool Owners Group.  For several weeks, there has been a deliberate attempt by managers and founders of the protest site to undermine the FOG.

As long as they spread their misinformation offline, I have chosen let it go and not bring it up in the FOG.  I've even ignored their abuse of the FOG PM system.  However, recently, the administrators of the protest site have chosen to move their campaign into the FOG, and that's when they crossed a red line.  The lenient and open policies of the FOG have been abused by the administrators of the protest site.

Now they have opened the floodgates, and it's time for me to share some facts about the protest site.  I've been silent about all this, and would have kept it silent if the administrators of the protest site had not chosen to cross that line.

Facts about the protest site:
- Several members of the FOG joined that site, and were banned by the TF moderators when they wrote about the FOG using the TF PM system.

- Three members of the FOG had their posts deleted (without notice) and were banned from the protest site because they asked about who funds TF and who owns the TF domain.  To date, the administrators of TF have refused requests to explain who owns the TF domain, or where support for their site comes from.  They ban people who insist on getting this information.

- The protest site is registered through Domains By Proxy, whose motto is "Your Identity is Nobody's Business but Ours."  This conceals details of the ownership of the protest site.  By contrast, details about the ownership and control of the FOG are readily available to all members.

- Managers of the protest site have been using the FOG PM system to recruit new members to TF.  They have done this, even as they banned people who use their PM system to mention the FOG.

- Almost all members and administrators of the protest site are customers of a single dealer, and that dealer is also the only dealer active in that forum.  This same dealer was one of the most active dealers on the FOG.  His last post on the FOG is dated June 13, which coincides with the opening of TF.  Within days of the opening of TF, this dealer removed all mention of the FOG from his company blog.  Upon its opening, this dealer was the moderator of the dealer section of TF.

- Most of the problems we have experienced in the FOG originated with founders of the protest site.  Those problems are concurrent with the opening of the protest site.  For example, Dan Clark posted his hostile remarks about me and this forum on June 5, within one week of the opening of the protest site.  Dan Clark was a founding member of the protest site and is a moderator on TF.  Ned Young's public exit from the FOG also occurred within a week of the opening of TF.  Ned Young is also a founder and moderator on TF.

There is a lot more, but that's enough for now.

I believe that if people put the above facts together, they will understand the mission and purpose of TF.

I would prefer to not deal with the protest site any longer.  Other forums by themselves are never a threat to our forum.  The problem lies in attempts to undermine this forum, attack this forum's members or leadership, or abuse this forum's PM system.

Thanks,
Matthew