Great Day at Festool USA in the cabinet class

[BMH]

Smart move but premium insurance cost is only a small fraction of what it will cost if an employee (or student) looses an eye because all PPE was not in place.

I agree, as a professional who had treated many worker injuries,  the impact goes far beyond premium insurance cost, these injuries are sometime career ending and leave the families impacted in major distress. Eye wear does not stop all penetration but limits the depth of penetration and that can make a big difference. Wearing gloves, not removing safety devices from the tools, hearing protections, banning cell phone on work site, good ladders all make a big difference. It starts with you and it extend to everybody under your responsibility. The job is dangerous enough without adding preventable injuries to the list.

I have skied all of my life without a helmet, when I took my kids skiing for the first time I made sure they had a helmet. My climbing partner who is also a ski instructor told me if the kids had to wear one I needed to wear one also. Now my wife and me wear a helmet every time we ski, and our kids don't think twice about it. We all have to lead by example.

Bruce

 

[EcoFurniture]

Smart move but premium insurance cost is only a small fraction of what it will cost if an employee (or student) looses an eye because all PPE was not in place.

I agree, as a professional who had treated many worker injuries,  the impact goes far beyond premium insurance cost, these injuries are sometime career ending and leave the families impacted in major distress. Eye wear does not stop all penetration but limits the depth of penetration and that can make a big difference. Wearing gloves, not removing safety devices from the tools, hearing protections, banning cell phone on work site, good ladders all make a big difference. It starts with you and it extend to everybody under your responsibility. The job is dangerous enough without adding preventable injuries to the list.

I have skied all of my life without a helmet, when I took my kids skiing for the first time I made sure they had a helmet. My climbing partner who is also a ski instructor told me if the kids had to wear one I needed to wear one also. Now my wife and me wear a helmet every time we ski, and our kids don't think twice about it. We all have to lead by example.

Bruce

I don't want to take this topic too much off topic... But one thing you just mentioned I totally disagree with:
Wearing gloves... They are great when moving/lifting sharp,dirty stuff around. But I would never ever put them on while working on power tools! The same as long loose sleeves, rings, watches ect.. If one of those items get cought in a fast spinning blade/routerbit/ drill bit you will loose your finger/hand/arm! Those part will just get ripped out! If you don't wear those items and you touch a blade, then you would most likely "only" get a scratch or a clean cut that will allow the doctor to re attach them. During my 3 year training to be become a woodworker and also while working as a paramedic I saw all of those things happen! Trust me it's not pretty!

Anyhow, please feel free to delete or move this post if it's too far off topic...

Cheers,
Andreas

 

[Wonderwino]

Looks like a great experience!  I recognize one of my NW KS buddies in the pictures.  I'll have to track him down and get the full story.  [big grin]

 

[honeydoman]

So today I am in atlanta getting ready to start a 7 day job.... and went to highland hardware... great place... just had to walk out with the mk700 full package, and the edge guide...... and the little light for the drills which they had in stock great light......... and..... the folding ruler!!!!

what a great day... now I will get to use the router tomorrow and run a small bead on some custom trim for bead board I will be doing.

heck just have 8 guys go to corporate teach them to build cabs. and within the next few days $ 15,000 or more in tools are bought !  lol

I know of at least 3 kapexs.  mine and another guy in the class just bought one.. plus the one I had a freind buy while waiting for the class over the prior weekend at the local woodcraft store.

Plus while at the highland store 2 people reconized me from this thread that they had heard about and read about.  of course I still had the green pants, eagle shirt and the bandana!  (been washed) 

 

[RONWEN]

There have been a couple mentions (by class attendees) of the new "MK 700 router" -- Is that a new version of the MFK 700 router?  If so, how is it different?

 

[peter halle]

Ron,

I believe there is only one.  Probably called new because we really don't hear that much about them relative to other "newer releases".

Peter

 

[Jesse Cloud]

Smart move but premium insurance cost is only a small fraction of what it will cost if an employee (or student) looses an eye because all PPE was not in place.

I agree, as a professional who had treated many worker injuries,  the impact goes far beyond premium insurance cost, these injuries are sometime career ending and leave the families impacted in major distress. Eye wear does not stop all penetration but limits the depth of penetration and that can make a big difference. Wearing gloves, not removing safety devices from the tools, hearing protections, banning cell phone on work site, good ladders all make a big difference. It starts with you and it extend to everybody under your responsibility. The job is dangerous enough without adding preventable injuries to the list.

I have skied all of my life without a helmet, when I took my kids skiing for the first time I made sure they had a helmet. My climbing partner who is also a ski instructor told me if the kids had to wear one I needed to wear one also. Now my wife and me wear a helmet every time we ski, and our kids don't think twice about it. We all have to lead by example.

Bruce

I don't want to take this topic too much off topic... But one thing you just mentioned I totally disagree with:
Wearing gloves... They are great when moving/lifting sharp,dirty stuff around. But I would never ever put them on while working on power tools! The same as long loose sleeves, rings, watches ect.. If one of those items get cought in a fast spinning blade/routerbit/ drill bit you will loose your finger/hand/arm! Those part will just get ripped out! If you don't wear those items and you touch a blade, then you would most likely "only" get a scratch or a clean cut that will allow the doctor to re attach them. During my 3 year training to be become a woodworker and also while working as a paramedic I saw all of those things happen! Trust me it's not pretty!

Anyhow, please feel free to delete or move this post if it's too far off topic...

Cheers,
Andreas

I'm with you Andreas.  Recently a buddy was wearing gloves while operating a horizontal mortiser.  Without thinking, he reached down by the bit to brush away some dust.  The bit caught his glove and pulled his hand in.  When I got there I saw a pool of blood on the floor and thought he had lost a finger or two.  He was lucky, the wound wasn't too deep, but he came back the next day with a bandage the size of a cantelope.  Only time I use gloves are for loading and unloading rough stock, never around power tools.

 

[peter halle]

So today I am in atlanta getting ready to start a 7 day job.... and went to highland hardware... great place... just had to walk out with the mk700 full package, and the edge guide...... and the little light for the drills which they had in stock great light......... and..... the folding ruler!!!!

what a great day... now I will get to use the router tomorrow and run a small bead on some custom trim for bead board I will be doing.

heck just have 8 guys go to corporate teach them to build cabs. and within the next few days $ 15,000 or more in tools are bought !   lol

I know of at least 3 kapexs.   mine and another guy in the class just bought one.. plus the one I had a freind buy while waiting for the class over the prior weekend at the local woodcraft store.

Plus while at the highland store 2 people reconized me from this thread that they had heard about and read about.  of course I still had the green pants, eagle shirt and the bandana!  (been washed) 

Kreg,

At the first class the attendees were exposed to the motherload of green tools.  I don't know of any Festool owner who could walk into that training room and not drool and plan a future purchase.  I certainly don't remember being marketed to.  Is it fair to assume that you guys bought new tools as a result of your hands-on time and use of new tools that could improve your work flow and profitability rather than a sales pitch?

I have read your posts here and on other forums and understand your humor.  Others might not and might get the impression that the only reason Festool is giving lucky individuals an opportunity to spend hands on time with trainers who have more experience with the tools than the average us is to sell tools,  I don't believe that to be the case at all based on conversations and experiences with the Festool folks before, during, and after the classes. I would hate to see a misunderstanding cloud someone's thoughts about possibly attending classes in the future or to question the reason behind the classes because these classes are not available anywhere else in North America and in very few places in the WORLD.

Don't Stop Reading Yet - Kreg is one of the most giving individuals that you will meet.  Last December I built the largest built-in project I've done for a client.  I read a post he had done and ended up sending him an email and asking about guidance on pricing and also asked whether or not I could pay him to let me come down to North Carolina and he show me the ropes on the LR-32 system.  Kreg replied back that he would be happy to help me out any way that he could and that if I came down he would gladly show me at no cost.  In his email he said he was taught by other people and he felt that it gave him joy to pass it on. 

Peter

 

[honeydoman]

Peter,  thank you for the compliment.  Yes it was a tongue and cheek humor.  festool put on the class for training us how to do our job faster easier and smarter, there slogan.  and that was what it was.  I bought these tools because I learned how they could help my business of cabinet making and make it easier.

this class was not to sell more festools to us, but to help us learn.    I have yet to see any other tool company offer to do this type of training. and to make sure that we as consumers get full benefit from these exceptional tools.

so lets rock and roll and cut wood!

 

[peter halle]

Kreg,

Thank you for that.  You are a class act. [thanks]
P.S.  For you who have never run into or been run over by his posts, he has virtually cornered the market in the lower Mid Atlantic States of the US for using beadboard (said in jest).  He is known as the Beadboard King!! 

Long live the King. [not worthy]

Thanks,

Peter

 

[John Stevens]

The bit caught his glove and pulled his hand in.

At the risk of belaboring the point, I was wearing gloves one day while doing some post-and-beam construction with dirty, splintery, salvaged lumber.  I didn't take the gloves off before I picked up the power drill and started boring holes for the pegs.  When the bit caught the glove as I was pulling it out of a deep hole, it tangled into the glove, then into the flesh, then "danced" around from the web of the thumb across the back of my wrist.  Nicked two veins.  Blood was running like water from a pair of faucets.  The hand surgeon told me I was lucky I didn't sever any of the tendons of the thumb.  It took about five years before the scar tissue loosened up enough that it didn't restrict the range of motion of my thumb.

Mark Twain once said that a man who carries a cat by the tail learns something he can learn no other way.  As for me, I think people can learn by others' bad experience, so please excuse me if it seems like I'm preaching.

Regards,

John

 

[Bob Marino]

The bit caught his glove and pulled his hand in.

At the risk of belaboring the point, I was wearing gloves one day while doing some post-and-beam construction with dirty, splintery, salvaged lumber.  I didn't take the gloves off before I picked up the power drill and started boring holes for the pegs.  When the bit caught the glove as I was pulling it out of a deep hole, it tangled into the glove, then into the flesh, then "danced" around from the web of the thumb across the back of my wrist.  Nicked two veins.  Blood was running like water from a pair of faucets.  The hand surgeon told me I was lucky I didn't sever any of the tendons of the thumb.  It took about five years before the scar tissue loosened up enough that it didn't restrict the range of motion of my thumb.

Mark Twain once said that a man who carries a cat by the tail learns something he can learn no other way.  As for me, I think people can learn by others' bad experience, so please excuse me if it seems like I'm preaching.

Regards,

John

Not preaching at all John. You did us a favor by posting.

Bob

 

[mwhafner]

and went to highland hardware

If anyone is in the Atlanta area, try to work in a stop in Highland.  Great little store, with some really neat and unusual products.

BTW- I am not affiliated in any way with this company.

 

[BMH]

At the risk of belaboring the point, I was wearing gloves one day while doing some post-and-beam construction with dirty, splintery, salvaged lumber.  I didn't take the gloves off before I picked up the power drill and started boring holes for the pegs.  When the bit caught the glove as I was pulling it out of a deep hole, it tangled into the glove, then into the flesh, then "danced" around from the web of the thumb across the back of my wrist.  Nicked two veins.  Blood was running like water from a pair of faucets.  The hand surgeon told me I was lucky I didn't sever any of the tendons of the thumb.  It took about five years before the scar tissue loosened up enough that it didn't restrict the range of motion of my thumb.

Mark Twain once said that a man who carries a cat by the tail learns something he can learn no other way.  As for me, I think people can learn by others' bad experience, so please excuse me if it seems like I'm preaching.

Regards,

When seats belts became mandatory we suddenly had an increase in people being taken to the ER for chest bruise, broken ribs or even chest burns. These injuries where usually secondary to hitting  a stationary object at high speed with a loose seat belt.  The conclusion of most of these people was that seat belts where dangerous. Seat belt does not  prevent you from hitting a stationary object, they can also create a certain type of physical damage, especially if not worn correctly, but they save lives every year.

1-Gloves do not protect you from bad technique, but can limit the damage. In the above example the risk of a cut and secondary infection was higher then having the bit grab your glove.
2-Glove technology has improved tremendously, the right glove for the right job is important and they are expensive.
3-Over the past 30 years of my career I have seen the number and type of hand injuries change. This is due to OHSA regulation, improve tools design, and better awareness of people using these tools.
4- The most common injury now is laceration and infection from material handling, some of them with toxic components, long term damage from vibration of high power tools and secondary damage from materials and power tools slipping out of people hands.
5-What started me on buying Festool is SAFETY.
-You keep your work piece stationary by clamping it
-You move your tool along the work piece using as often as possible the rail system.
-The TS55/75 with rails not only give great cuts but is the biggest finger saver out there with saw stop.
-Reduce vibration, prevents long term damages to hands
-Dust collection, keeps the dust and chemical out of your lungs first and secondary makes the job site clean up easier.

The right glove for the job protect your hand from laceration, trauma and chemicals, dampens vibration, enhances your grip but does not protect from bad technique.  That being said even OHSA recognize that for some jobs where your hands has to be close to a rotary tool by the nature of the job it performs, stationary grinder for example, your are "probably" better off not wearing gloves.

There are exceptions to all safety rules, safety equipment is not always easy or comfortable to wear, safety sometimes requires us to change our techniques, the tools we have, or prolongs the time necessary to perform a task. The goal is to keep you safe, on the job and back to home at night and away from our hospital emergency rooms.

Bruce

 

[honeydoman]

and went to highland hardware

If anyone is in the Atlanta area, try to work in a stop in Highland.  Great little store, with some really neat and unusual products.

BTW- I am not affiliated in any way with this company.

that so funny, I was just their yesterday as I am doing a big job down here and went their and left about 600 bucks with them!  great store and stocked fully with festool !  bought the mfk 700 amougst a few other things.

I will post pic tomorrow using the router today.  as I used it to run a bead bit down the side of a 1x3 and had the router along the 3/4 edge and it worked great.

what a fantastic router.

 

[JJ Wavra]

I wonder if this cabinet making class could not be related to habitat for humanity or smoething similar. I imagine that some pretty nice cabinets were being made and then they could be used.

Just a thought
JJ