Guide rail saw tracking when connecting rails

[DrD]

[member=59578]CADru[/member]

Good Morning!  Thanks for the data.  I incorporated your data into mine & found, using fuzzy statistics, that the tool guide channel protruding up from the 1400 rail sent you by Festool is statistically different/smaller than all the other rails measured thus far.  Good job.

[member=57769]TylerC[/member]

Be interested to see what Festool has to say about the change in dimension for this feature.

[member=297]Michael Kellough[/member],

Thanks for the input.  None of my precision calipers measure in metric, thus easier for me to go on with Imperial, but numerically converting, the values are in the 16 mm + range.  I think the point here is that the "new" rail sent to [member=59578]CADru[/member] does appear to be statistically smaller than others posted so far.

[member=44099]Cheese[/member]

Have to admit, while enjoying retirement, I do miss this stuff!

Now [member=57769]TylerC[/member] , with all this, what is Festool going to do?  This would seem to put a serious hiccup in their System Concept.

DrD

 

[CADru]

The tracking spine is supposed to be 16mm. I'd measure using mm rather than inches.

Wanted to stay with same unit of measure that [member=19075]DrD[/member] posted for comparison. Using mm the 1400 in question is different (from my other rails) by 0.2032 mm. Comparing this across the other rails which is only a 0.0254 mm difference, now that's a tolerance I can live with compared to the cost.

I'll be taking my mic on future rail purchase runs.

 

[Corwin]

Checking the Guide Rail dimensions before you buy might work out for those that can purchase locally, but what do you do when you do not live close to a dealer and need to purchase online and have the rail shipped? Shipping these rails back and forth until you get an acceptable fit will not work well.

 

[DrD]

[member=182]Corwin[/member]

Agree 100%.  If we are buying a system component, why should we, the user, need to check ANY dimension prior to purchase?  That is about as absurd as having to check the width and thickness of the spades on an electrical cord to ensure it will fit our standard wall outlet plug before buying.

 

[CADru]

[member=182]Corwin[/member] [member=19075]DrD[/member]

I concur, having to check this is absurd. IMO the rail track difference with these rails is unacceptable. More reason to understand why this is the case. Just saying that since experiencing this and fortunate to have local dealer the mic goes with. I shutter at the thought of even having to have a rail shipped from vendor and arrive undamaged. Unless of course that vendor is Bob Marino then you're probably safe that the rail is packaged to survive shipment.

Dealer not really "that" local but, who wouldn't drive to a Festool dealer that's just an hour away. Not to mention no sales tax.

 

[Holmz]

[member=182]Corwin[/member] [member=19075]DrD[/member]
... arrive undamaged. Unless of course that vendor is Bob Marino then you're probably safe that the rail is packaged to survive shipment.
...

Can Bob really "make UPS great again"?

 

[peter halle]

[member=182]Corwin[/member] [member=19075]DrD[/member]
... arrive undamaged. Unless of course that vendor is Bob Marino then you're probably safe that the rail is packaged to survive shipment.
...

Can Bob really "make UPS great again"?

Only here in the US.  You guys down under are on your own.  [big grin]

Peter

 

[Bob Marino]

[member=182]Corwin[/member] [member=19075]DrD[/member]
... arrive undamaged. Unless of course that vendor is Bob Marino then you're probably safe that the rail is packaged to survive shipment.
...

Can Bob really "make UPS great again"?

  Ha, ha, if only anyone could. Best we can do is over-box and/or over-pack, but unfortunately, UPS can be brutal and once in a while there is a bent/damaged rail. Then of course we send a replacement....

 

[Holmz]

[member=182]Corwin[/member] [member=19075]DrD[/member]
... arrive undamaged. Unless of course that vendor is Bob Marino then you're probably safe that the rail is packaged to survive shipment.
...

Can Bob really "make UPS great again"?

Only here in the US.  You guys down under are on your own.  [big grin]

Peter

Touché  [wink]

 

[Cheese]

Well here's a summation of the saw guide track widths that have been gathered so far. I just took the raw data and calculated the mean width of each saw guide track so that they would be easy to compare. What immediately jumps out as an outlier in the group is the mean of .627 for the CADru 1400 rail.

At this juncture, I think it's reasonable to ask [member=57769]TylerC[/member] the question, if this falls within Festool's standard for manufacturing tolerances, and if it does, then what method would Festool recommend to use to join this rail to another to allow them to work in unison?

The OP has stated that he's joined the 2 rails together and that the saw catches/stops at the junction of the 2 rails. 

Festool                DrD            CADru            Cheese
Rails                  Mean          Mean            Mean
800                    0.634          0.634 
1080                  0.637          0.634 
1400                  0.635          0.627              0.633
LR 32 1400      0.633          0.634              0.634
1900                  0.634          0.634 
2700                                      0.633 

 

[DrD]

[member=44099]Cheese[/member]
[member=57769]TylerC[/member]
[member=59578]CADru[/member]
[member=64546]Gman70[/member]

Thanks [member=44099]Cheese[/member] for the summary.

A little more investigation reveals there was another post about this very same issue, Mar 27, 2017 "Guide Rails' Thickness Don't Match" by [member=64546]Gman70[/member] wherein he had exact problem experienced by [member=59578]CADru[/member].  It is the 18th post down under "Festool Problems".

Anyone care to guess how Festool responded?  Yup, you appear to be correct - apparently NOTHING, not even platitudes, nothing.  There were even more users who posted on that thread they too had similar issues between/among rails.

The non-responsiveness by Festool is disquieting.  What is it going to take to get Festool to acknowledge that there are serious issues with their "Integrated System Approach"?

 

[TylerC]

I appreciate everyone contributing their findings on this. I’ve sent all of this over to HQ. As a marketing guy in the US, this level of detail on these issues is outside of my prevue, so I personally can’t offer any quick answers.

Anyone care to guess how Festool responded?  Yup, you appear to be correct - apparently NOTHING, not even platitudes, nothing.  There were even more users who posted on that thread they too had similar issues between/among rails.

Honestly, this wasn’t a matter of us avoiding it. It was a matter of me not seeing it. I’m not able to actively monitor every board each day. If you want to make sure that I see something, the best options are to tag me or put it in the “Ask Festool board.

We’re preparing to have a few more Festool employees join the FOG in order to offer more support.

 

[Gman70]

Coming in late in the conversation because I saw that I was mentioned, but it's interesting to see so many Festool users doing what we would expect Festool to be doing!

When I experienced this issue, I called Festool support, thinking that it would be a simple case of switching out one of the rails.  To my surprise, they wanted nothing to do with it.  Rather than solving my problem, they were focused on making it just not their problem.  The first person I spoke to just said "no two rails are the same, and if you want to make long cuts you should buy the longer rail"!  Not what I expected to hear after buying a new saw, two rails, and some overpriced metal bars that have one purpose only - to connect two rails.  I was getting nowhere fast, so I said I wanted to speak to someone else.  After a long delay, the second guy came on and basically repeated what the first guy had said.  Looking at the data, it seems that they were wrong - some rails are the same, or at least the same enough! 

Mine was an online order, and it was the dealer who went out of his way to send me a new rail in the end, rather than taking Festool's approach of denying that there was a problem.  If changing the rail is not an option, then a one time workaround that one member suggested was to sand down the wider spine to make it match (assuming it still works with any other rails you may have).  While it's still a workaround, at least it's a one time workaround.

Now that my rails are within a couple of thousandths, I'm reasonably happy with the tool, but I just can't get past the lack of support from Festool.  They could have easily admitted that this was a problem and switched out one of the rails like my dealer did, and I would have been a happy customer, but they were so dismissive and arrogant, that it was enough to convince me never to buy another Festool product again - and buying tools is one of my favorite things to do!  I'm sure there are some good people there who genuinely want to help, but the two I spoke to didn't.  If I wanted to spend good money to get treated that way, I could have just bought a ticket on an overbooked United flight!

 

[TylerC]

[member=64546]Gman70[/member] I'm sorry if anyone at Festool gave the impression that your concern wasn't taken seriously. I am making sure that the appropriate people are aware of this thread including your post.

 

[TylerC]

Earlier today I reached out to the OP to get him taken care while we look into the large guide rail connection topic.

 

[CADru]

I appreciate everyone contributing their findings on this. I’ve sent all of this over to HQ. As a marketing guy in the US, this level of detail on these issues is outside of my prevue, so I personally can’t offer any quick answers.

Honestly, this wasn’t a matter of us avoiding it. It was a matter of me not seeing it. I’m not able to actively monitor every board each day. If you want to make sure that I see something, the best options are to tag me or put it in the “Ask Festool” board.

We’re preparing to have a few more Festool employees join the FOG in order to offer more support.

That's where it's posted is it not? In the Ask Festool board.

 

[peter halle]

I appreciate everyone contributing their findings on this. I’ve sent all of this over to HQ. As a marketing guy in the US, this level of detail on these issues is outside of my prevue, so I personally can’t offer any quick answers.

Honestly, this wasn’t a matter of us avoiding it. It was a matter of me not seeing it. I’m not able to actively monitor every board each day. If you want to make sure that I see something, the best options are to tag me or put it in the “Ask Festool” board.

We’re preparing to have a few more Festool employees join the FOG in order to offer more support.

That's where it's posted is it not? In the Ask Festool board.

[member=59578]CADru[/member] , perhaps I can offer some perspective after watching threads here as a moderator for now 8 years.  You can't follow everything.  This goes to both as a volunteer or a Festool employee who has other duties.  Yes, should perhaps it work better, and the system is set up to allow someone like Tyler or myself or Seth know when a post is made in a particular area of the forum (selectable by each), but in real life that might mean that someone is dealing with other responsibilities that might stretch over a day or so and then the immediate radar image is lost in the clutter of the next time period.

That answer might not be what people want to hear, but that is reality at this point.  The forum is like a value added service - not a primary essential service.  Those are my words - not Festool's.

Peter

 

[TylerC]

I appreciate everyone contributing their findings on this. I’ve sent all of this over to HQ. As a marketing guy in the US, this level of detail on these issues is outside of my prevue, so I personally can’t offer any quick answers.

Honestly, this wasn’t a matter of us avoiding it. It was a matter of me not seeing it. I’m not able to actively monitor every board each day. If you want to make sure that I see something, the best options are to tag me or put it in the “Ask Festool” board.

We’re preparing to have a few more Festool employees join the FOG in order to offer more support.

That's where it's posted is it not? In the Ask Festool board.

Sorry, I was referring the thread from a few months ago that was in the "Festool Tool Problems" board

 

[CADru]

I appreciate everyone contributing their findings on this. I’ve sent all of this over to HQ. As a marketing guy in the US, this level of detail on these issues is outside of my prevue, so I personally can’t offer any quick answers.

Honestly, this wasn’t a matter of us avoiding it. It was a matter of me not seeing it. I’m not able to actively monitor every board each day. If you want to make sure that I see something, the best options are to tag me or put it in the “Ask Festool” board.

We’re preparing to have a few more Festool employees join the FOG in order to offer more support.

That's where it's posted is it not? In the Ask Festool board.

Sorry, I was referring the thread from a few months ago that was in the "Festool Tool Problems" board

Yeah, a minute didn't go by after I posted that I realized that was most likely the case  [big grin]

 

[DrD]

[member=59578]CADru[/member]

Glad [member=57769]TylerC[/member]  has reached out to you; I wonder if he or someone else has reached out to [member=64546]Gman70[/member] for his exact problems?

I logged onto the Festool - US website today, and was greeted with the following all-prettified-up banner... "The Festool System - unprecedented tools for the uncompromising craftsman."  That is interesting on so many levels and in so many ways.

This is a Festool company site is it not?  It is, and has been for some number of years, manned by marketing, whose purview - not "prevue" - does not include issues of this nature.  ... I am tempted to go on, but that seems to be rather like beating a long dead horse.

[member=44099]Cheese[/member], I'm wondering if we should not submit a bill to Festool, maybe thru [member=57769]TylerC[/member] for the work we did that they should have done on the specification issue?  Let me know.

DrD