Had a power surge, smoked the CT 15 :/

[ChuckM]

Welp, huge storm ran through the area and after a power surge ran through the house, I found that sadly my CT15 was indeed dead. It was the only thing plugged into the wall that was "on" (...it's kind of always in that standby mode, never truly off). Thankfully the Kapex connected to it was fine. Ordered a new PCB from Festool so hopefully will be back in service Friday.

Just installed a whole house surge protector today to mitigate this from happening again.

Thx for sharing this.

I've just ordered 6 surge protectors for the shop and computer equipment and digital devices. I knew I needed them, but had neglected to do anything about it.

For Canadians who need them, try primecables.ca -- about $9 Cdn each on clearance sale (free shipping on orders $49 and above). Again, do your due diligence before you trust or do business with this online seller. I'm a new user with that business, and my order won't arrive till next week.

 

[woodferret]

As far as surge protectors go, the more Joules the better.  Think of it as ablative shielding.  Last numbers I recall suggests 1k-2k for basic computer equipment, and 2k+ for expensive equipment.

'Office' bars are usually the 1k range.  Some cheap 'surge' wall-worts can be pretty low at 450.

Basically once the MOV gets blown (say a 450J), then it can't shunt the surge current down the ground and is now going back into your equipment.  And it's typically cumulative throughout the lifetime too - so general power fluctuations from things turning on and off in your house circuits can nibble at low value J.

 

[ChuckM]

The 6-outlet surge protectors I've just ordered are rated 900J, 15A, 1850 W. For $1 more ($10 Cdn), the protector would carry a 1500J protection, but unfortunately it ran out of stock:https://www.primecables.ca/p-360933...power-strip-120v-1850w-etl-listed-primecables

 

[bwehman]

Snip

Just installed a whole house surge protector today to mitigate this from happening again.

Do you need a qualified electrician to do that? How is it done?

I'm not a licensed electrician, but a homebuilder and electrical "enthusiast". My panel is a Square D that happens to have a simple add-on accessory that perfectly locks into slots 1 and 2 of the panel. Other Type 2 devices are often mounted externally and require an additional 50-amp double pole breaker in slots 1 or 2 to work. Either way, yes, simple install. Much recommended. Wish I did it before this, but was pretty low on the priority list seeing how this is the first one I've ever experienced in my 38 years.

 

[Coen]

Looks like a ceramic capacitor @ 50 cents took a dump on the PCB. I would just replace that.

The benefits of a sub-panel in the shop are obvious, but the execution isn't simple to people like me who has had little electrical background. Before we can even add an outlet, let alone a sub-panel, we need to get a city permit/subsequent inspections. Depending on the scale or complexity of the job and location (urban vs rural), we may even need to get the power company involved. This may all sound easy for a local qualified electrician who does that for a living, it's not something many of us woodworkers may want to invest our time on.

Sorry, I am trully off on US regs.

Genuine Q, do you really have to ask for a permit to use a mobile distrib box analoguous to below ?

Ref: below goes for $200 over here and is:
- 16A@230V IN
- 3x 16A@230V OUT
+ GFCI and individual B breakers

The three B16's are completely useless as the 16A breaker upstream will cut in at the same time or even earlier.
Then you might just as well just buy an extension cord with an 'in cord' GFCI.

The 6-outlet surge protectors I've just ordered are rated 900J, 15A, 1850 W. For $1 more ($10 Cdn), the protector would carry a 1500J protection, but unfortunately it ran out of stock:https://www.primecables.ca/p-360933...power-strip-120v-1850w-etl-listed-primecables

That type of surge protection usually does nothing on it's own. My money would be on it causing fires rather than preventing anything. When combined with an actual surge protector at the panel it might protect against the smallest ripple that that lets through.

 

[Coen]

Speaking of centralized power, Jason Bent had an interesting post a few months (maybe a year? I don't have the time to look it up right now) ago about a system that provides electronic blast gate control but also power relays for equipment, so that everything in the shop can be turned off from a central switch (or even an app, I'm sure).  My only current option, were I to build out a shop in my garage, would be to throw the sub-panel breaker for the entire garage, which would also disable my garage opener and radon pump.  I'm sure most hobbyists are in a similar position, possibly even without the sub panel.

When I built the new garage I opted to install a 200 amp Leviton panel in the garage despite having a Square D panel that powers the house which meant my "handles" wouldn't match which makes me crazy.  [smile]

Leviton makes "Smart breakers" which means they can be turned on/off with an app on your phone. The idea was, that I could cut power to the overhead door to thwart potential theft as well as cut power to the shop tools that were still plugged in to protect against any power surge.

We get a lot of lightning storms in the summer in the late evening/early morning hours. Two years ago I lost a Festool TCL 3 charger and a Festool MXC charger during one of these storms.

The "Smart breakers" aren't cheap but they do work well. The standard 20 amp breaker is $7 while the smart version is about $130 but I only need 3 of them. They can also be programed to turn on & off on different time schedules which is what I plan on doing.
1...Garage door circuit  2...White power tool circuit  3...Black power tool circuit

[attachimg=1]

[attachimg=2]

[attachimg=3]
https://www.continentaldoorco.com/blog/preventing-garage-door-hacking/

That too looks like 2x ceramic capacitor @ 50 cents each.

 

[mino]

...
Ref: below goes for $200 over here and is:
- 16A@230V IN
- 3x 16A@230V OUT
+ GFCI and individual B breakers

The three B16's are completely useless as the 16A breaker upstream will cut in at the same time or even earlier.
Then you might just as well just buy an extension cord with an 'in cord' GFCI.
...

They are anything but useless. Essential actually and the main reason to use such a setup as far as safety goes:

Firstly, the upstream breaker may be C type (in our case it is).

Secondly, the presence of the breakers *restarts* the circuit resistance calculation. In practice it means that:
A) one can (safely) use another 50 m lead after such a portable switchboard was already on one of such leads
B) one does not need worry about the quality of potentially 30+ years old cabling and or breakers /in our case the breakers are from the 1970's/

Third, the main feature is the 40A max 30 mA GFCI breaker which must always be used alongside a current breaker of adequate capacity (yes, I know, that is formally the breaker upstream as 3x16=48, but in practice those "local" ones are the ones which will trigger in case of an overcurrent)

And last, the breakers double up as on/off switching, allowing to "upstream" power off sections if someone is (non-electric) working on some tool and wants to avoid accidental power-on without having to unplug the bad-access lead.

That said, the setup does kinda work like a macho extension cord with GFCI *and* per-socket current breakers *and* central stop *and* (our case) 15 industrial power sockets. That is the point after all. To get central power with lots of protected sockets from a minimum of (potentially unsafe) facility-provided ones.

 

[Coen]

...
Ref: below goes for $200 over here and is:
- 16A@230V IN
- 3x 16A@230V OUT
+ GFCI and individual B breakers

The three B16's are completely useless as the 16A breaker upstream will cut in at the same time or even earlier.
Then you might just as well just buy an extension cord with an 'in cord' GFCI.
...

They are anything but useless. Essential actually and the main reason to use such a setup as far as safety goes:

Firstly, the upstream breaker may be C type (in our case it is).

Valid point.

Secondly, the presence of the breakers *restarts* the circuit resistance calculation. In practice it means that:
A) one can (safely) use another 50 m lead after such a portable switchboard was already on one of such leads

That depends. At the end of that other 50m lead you still need to achieve a round-trip resistance low enough to consistently be able to trip that B16 on it's highest margin.

B) one does not need worry about the quality of potentially 30+ years old cabling and or breakers /in our case the breakers are from the 1970's/

Not just simple fuses from the 1970's? Fancy Soviet MCB's that freeze on short circuit?

Third, the main feature is the 40A max 30 mA GFCI breaker which must always be used alongside a current breaker of adequate capacity (yes, I know, that is formally the breaker upstream as 3x16=48, but in practice those "local" ones are the ones which will trigger in case of an overcurrent)

Protection against small overcurrents is based on the thing heating up. Same enviroment, same type of upstream breaker = upstream just as likely to trip. And that is assuming all load from one of these three B16's.

And last, the breakers double up as on/off switching, allowing to "upstream" power off sections if someone is (non-electric) working on some tool and wants to avoid accidental power-on without having to unplug the bad-access lead.

If you can access the B16 in that box you are at the exact spot needed to unplug that cord...

That said, the setup does kinda work like a macho extension cord with GFCI *and* per-socket current breakers *and* central stop *and* (our case) 15 industrial power sockets. That is the point after all. To get central power with lots of protected sockets from a minimum of (potentially unsafe) facility-provided ones.

You still don't need three B16's for that. The only thing that does above a single B16 is provide the unwanted ability to smoke the Schuko plug on that thing assuming the upstream circuit isn't fused properly.

snip.
No need for a full-fledged fixed installation. No need to build a spaceship.snip.

The benefits of a sub-panel in the shop are obvious, but the execution isn't simple to people like me who has had little electrical background. Before we can even add an outlet, let alone a sub-panel, we need to get a city permit/subsequent inspections. Depending on the scale or complexity of the job and location (urban vs rural), we may even need to get the power company involved. This may all sound easy for a local qualified electrician who does that for a living, it's not something many of us woodworkers may want to invest our time on.

It's kinda strange to see the country that liberated large parts of my country from the Nazis smother itself in self-inflicted rules and regulations.  [huh]

I just replaced like 95% of the entire E installation in a 1979 home. No permit, no notification to any body and no inspections. So new wiring, new 'panel', almost all switches moved, outlets added moved and multiplied.

 

[mino]

...
Not just simple fuses from the 1970's? Fancy Soviet MCB's that freeze on short circuit?
...

Fancy Czechoslovak overcurrent breakers, generally equivalent to 15kA industrial stuff of today .. rememebr, Czechoslovakia was (well, still is, we have 3 major companies making various breakers over here) a kind of a power electric stuff powerouse, supplying half the COMECON + more. We were the ones who supplied the Soviet Union ..

Funny story is that, at the time, the industrial standard was 3 kA but the way this was tested the CS norms were way, way, stricter than today "modern" norms. Their short-circuit mechanics are better than even modern 15 kA stuff, but the response-time suffers a bit. They are also not "C" per se, the standards were a bit different then, the characteristic is something between B and C on paper, in practice it is equivalent to the new C breakers at immediate but a bit slower on the overheating element. These were made for continuous load at rated amperage, so kinda as expected.

Problem is not reliability, these lines of breakers are industrial class, known to be very reliable decades in and out. But that these are landlord-owned. We have no real ability to check/influence how often these are (not) checked and paying for a check ourselves ... it was better to invest in new kit that is ours downstream and we will take wherever we move.

That said, the setup does kinda work like a macho extension cord with GFCI *and* per-socket current breakers *and* central stop *and* (our case) 15 industrial power sockets. That is the point after all. To get central power with lots of protected sockets from a minimum of (potentially unsafe) facility-provided ones.

You still don't need three B16's for that. The only thing that does above a single B16 is provide the unwanted ability to smoke the Schuko plug on that thing assuming the upstream circuit isn't fused properly.

You missed the point where I said these double as on/off switches for each socket. These days ,for infrequent switching, the breaker is actually the affordable option. Both on size and price. Electrically, one shared would do for sure. Also it is nice when something triggers the breaker and you can trace it to the source fast .. we used 6 kA ones with light/fast short-circuit behavior to get a pretty good discrimination.

I will skip a comment on rest. Believe mostly we are in line and it is already a lot of OT as is.