Hand plane & sharpening advice sought

AstroKeith said:
Thanks everyone for the advice.

For better or worse I've gone for

Lie-Nielson no4 Iron
Clifton low angle block plane
DMT Diaflat-95 lapping plate

    I am envious of your choice of the Clifton block plane. It is a beauty and quite pricey in the U.S. It also has a number of great features that you will enjoy for many years. My first high quality plane was/is a Clifton #6 bench plane. At that time I got it from Woodcraft for a pittance relatively speaking. I was taking a class from Paul Sellers around that time (when we both lived in Texas) and he was very impressed...in fact he offered to buy it from me.

  As to sharpening, the one, true way is whatever suits you longterm. I started with scary sharp and still use it to restore old blades. Once I have blades in decent shape, I use water stones and/or diamond plates. I always use a strop as the final step.
 
Just to buck the trend slightly I have one of the Faithfull diamond hones. 400 grit one side and 1000 the other.
The 400 side is great for lapping a waterstone and the Faithfull hone comes with an adjustable holder thats good for holding my waterstone.

Planes? This subject is a bit like Which twostroke oil is best so I'll just say which I use a lot.

I have a Stanley 5 1/2 jackplane with a choice of blades, a Samurai Brand laminated, a Veritas PMV-11, several old Sweetheart laminated blades. This plane is a real workhorse and depending on the camber of the blade I put in it can ease a firedoor or can be used in the centre of a big panel to smooth it neatly.

Veritas Low Angle Block Plane. Again a real workhorse, better with two blades, one at about 27 degrees, good for endgrain and nice raising grain, the other at a much higher angle for grain thats dropping into the wood.
Then I have a nice little No 3 Record with a Mujingfang blade that has the cutting edge inch or so made from High Speed Steel. I kind of use this like a beast of a blockplane or a lightweight, handy smoother.
I have a Woden (you read it right Woden was a British manufacturer which at one point was owned by Record) No4 which is OK I guess, err, I hardly use that size, not quite wide enough to do a firedoor edge and too wide for the nice Mujingfang blade.

For nice wood (as opposed to work jobs where I might encounter plywood which is pretty abrasive) I have recently bought a couple of wooden European horned planes. More specifically a Lignum Vitae soled smoothing plane made by a Dutch company called ABC and another is a toothing plane, again with a Lignum sole.

I've been told for years that wooden planes were hard to use and setup but I'm finding them surprisingly good. Watched a few Youtube vids about them and really it's not rocket science.

Also I bought a wooden jointer plane from my local secondhand place. Its 22" long, looks like it's been left in a shed for a long time, has a crack in the front but then it also has a very thick Norris iron and a capiron.
It cost me five quid but its bleedin marvelous. I had to flatten its sole a bit but I have handplanes for that.
Try flattening a Stanley No 7 or 8 and see how long it takes you.

Oh and I forgot, I bought the cheapest thing I could on Ebay a while ago, to use as a scrrubplane can't remember what make it is but it claims to be a No 2 although its basically the same size as a Record No 3 I have.
No chipbreaker and I reprofiled the blade to a tight camber then opened the mouth up with a file. I launched the original tension screw into the skip and fitted a wingbolt cos it doesn't need a screwdriver.
All dead easy to do and using it across the grain at 45 degrees then 45 degrees the other way is an absolute dream, fast and effective. Think it cost me eight quid.
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Scrubs aren't a precision tool, I just don't need Veritas or Lie Nielsen levels of machining on it.

With those I feel able to attack large wide surfaces, the kind of thing everyone else wants to do with a router sled.
Thing is I have routers and could knock up a sled in a fairly short amount of time but I just cant stand using them, it takes the enjoyment out of hobby work for me but I actually like using handplanes.
 
I once made decent money and tried to get into hand tool wood working at the very same time.  Trust me when I tell you: Lie Nielsen and then Veritas and a very faaaarrr behind them is Clifton.  I did own one of the newer black Cliftons and it wasn’t bad, just not close to Lie Nielsen.  I like Lee Valley and Veritas a lot, but for your general Stanley style 4 and 5...I think Lie Nielsen is the way to go.  Don’t waste your time on the weird low angles and wide soles and bronze bodies.  The plain jane iron sole regular no. 4 from Lie Nielsen is perfect.  Get a no. 5 with it.  Start with one of those two.  Don’t get too invested in lusting over the various planes because most of them are useless.  The Veritas router plane and then a medium or large shoulder plane from Lie Nielsen or Veritas can follow suit.    If you buy Lie Nielsen and Veritas, you do not need a honing guide.  Polish the back with a very high grit and then follow their angle honing the other side.  I’ve owned German and Japanese wooden planes and I’m not fond of them.
 
Amusingly I came across Holtey planes in my buying search. £5,000 to £7,000 for a hand plane! Does anyone have one of these or similar - not that I'm considering one, just curious.

The further you dive, the more you’ll find that there is indeed a weird strange world of hand plane collectors that is possibly larger than the amount of hand plane users. After all, there is a reason you had to resort to buying new products from Lie Nielsen and Clifton.  It certainly wasn’t woodworkers that bought up all of the useable Stanley, Record and Preston examples.
 
“If you buy Lie Nielsen and Veritas, you do not need a honing guide.”

I disagree with this statement. Some gifted people can hone a blade free hand and some less gifted (like me) need a repeatable guide. The LN guide with my home made angle setting guide make it simple to set the gage and blade to the perfect angle.

The LN guide works with my chisels, plane irons, and my angled plane irons. I don’t think the Veritas guide does angled plane irons. Could be wrong on that last statement.
 
Birdhunter said:
I don’t think the Veritas guide does angled plane irons. Could be wrong on that last statement.

I bought the Veritas mk2 'system", which has two holders - a self-centering one for blades up to 1.5", and another that will take up to 2.5". It has two roller assemblies, one straight the other with a camber if needed for plane blades. The roller is mounted offset so by a simple knob rotation a small micro-bevel can be added at the final stage. It has an angle setting widget that also sets the blade square to the jig. I really like it. There is no was I am hand honing now!
 
Thanks again for all the advice, comments, opinions...

The block plane arrived and after 5 mins of gentle honing it was ready to go. Its just what I was wanting. Its nice and heavy and suits my hand perfectly. The walnut handle is a perfect fit in my palm and feels good.

The machining and finishing is exquisite and the adjustable mouth insert is almost invisible its so tight and flush. The norris adjuster has no backlash discernible. The sole and blade are of course absolutely flat as you would expect. The blade is cryogenically hardened.

I'm happy so far ;D The LN No4 arrives this evening.
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Honing guides are an easy, repeatable way to get the same results every time, regardless of whether you are reforming a primary bevel or just honing a secondary bevel. Many professional furniture makers and woodworkers use them. I need a guide to hone and sharpen because I don't do it frequently. I spent many years trying to find a system which gets blades sharp easily and consistently. I now own a Lie-Nielsen guide and get the best results of my life with a combination of coarse diamond plates and some Shapton Glass Stones for the finer grits. I've tried the Veritas MKII guides (still own it) but the Lie-Nielsen guide is the best for those chisels and blades that it will hold (not all since it's made by LN for LN tools).Sharpening and honing without a guide just makes life more difficult (at least for me). [member=15289]Birdhunter[/member]
 
And just had a first try out with the new lapping plate and Lie-Nielsen no4

I can see why the lapping plate is worth the money. 15 minutes work and all 4 waterstones were back true. Safe to put my new plane blades on the stones!

I think the LN no4 is a real nice build of the good old Stanley design. No frills just excellent quality and all the features are there. I can see me buying an extra high angle frog for those tricky grains. As it will be worked hard I think the LN was a good choice.

I cant really compare a LN no4 with a Clifton block plane. Both are excellent quality, the LN is clearly mass produced but seeing as it will be a workhorse thats fine. The Clifton shows it's hand finishing and slight edge on quality and I will enjoy using it more like a special friend. That walnut handle is so right.

I've ordered a leather strop and compounds. I think I have definitely moved my honing skills up a notch this week!
 
AstroKeith said:
And just had a first try out with the new lapping plate and Lie-Nielsen no4

I can see why the lapping plate is worth the money. 15 minutes work and all 4 waterstones were back true. Safe to put my new plane blades on the stones!

I think the LN no4 is a real nice build of the good old Stanley design. No frills just excellent quality and all the features are there. I can see me buying an extra high angle frog for those tricky grains. As it will be worked hard I think the LN was a good choice.

I cant really compare a LN no4 with a Clifton block plane. Both are excellent quality, the LN is clearly mass produced but seeing as it will be a workhorse thats fine. The Clifton shows it's hand finishing and slight edge on quality and I will enjoy using it more like a special friend. That walnut handle is so right.

I've ordered a leather strop and compounds. I think I have definitely moved my honing skills up a notch this week!

  I have both LN and Veritas block planes and I assure you, the Clifton is every bit their equal. I also have a good number of other LN and Veritas planes in various configurations.....I even have a bronze LN #4 smoother with a York pitch frog. What I like about the newer implementations of bevel up planes is that you can buy a plane and change the angle of the planing edge by just buying a new blade and grinding it to a different angle. So, welcome to a rabbit hole perhaps more compelling than Festool tools. Again, dang, I envy your Clifton block plane purchase.
 
Few years ago I got a chance to use a Clifton 5 1/2 plane.
It's wasn't giving anything at all away in terms of quality to Lie Nielson or Veritas and at the time part of Cliftons work was aerospace engineering.
They know quality.

It was very nice indeed.
 
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