Handling Considerations For Choosing Router + CT Vac

[pws]

My first post! — I'm new to the forum but have been visiting for a few months and am really impressed with the knowledge and spirit of helpfulness I've seen here.

Strictly a hobbyist. Professionally a designer/architect. Have been wanting to upgrade/expand my old tools and a current interiors project for a friend (aka requiring 'sweat equity') has finally given me an excuse (I mean, opportunity  ) and some funds to acquire Festools: TS55, MFT/3, CT, Drill, Router...

I'd appreciate your insights wrt the selection of the Router (OF1010 vs 1400) and CT (26 vs 36) and Guide Rails:

ROUTER —
To be honest I haven't used one much and back in school we had mostly table-type models so I'm pretty excited with this opposite type. Also, a lot of my designs deal with edge details and my attitude is that if I have one, I'll use it more and more. My Festool dealer recommended the 1400 and gave good reasons yet I tend to be suspicious of "middle-of-the-range/line". For the first year I probably will stick with sheet goods up to 1" thick, then maybe branch out to hardwoods later. I'd also like to work with dovetails. So my question to all you more experienced people:
- 1) Although I understand the OF 1400 can work with LR32 and the dovetail jigs, in day-to-day use is its size cumbersome for such work?
- 2) Or conversely, do you find the OF 1010 to be just annoyingly slightly underpowered for day-to-day use?
- 3) How limiting is the bit selection for the OF 1010 (1/4" and 8mm only)? Admittedly I don't have much real grasp of this despite looking at bits, because right now I can't imagine that far into my routing future.

CT VAC —
Seems like a no-brainer to spend add'l $50 for the higher capacity of the CT36. Then I started thinking about the add'l weight, esp. with the bag half-full or 3/4-full. I won't be moving this thing daily from job site to job site yet I don't have a permanent garage; I think it will stay in one (work) room on a weekly basis but an upcoming project will require it to go upstairs-downstairs.
- 1) Is a loaded CT 36 significantly more of a pain to move around? (dealer currently out of stock so can't compare)
- 2) With 3+ systainers on top, is CT26 or CT36 easier to maneuver in real life, or no big difference?

GUIDE RAILS —
With MFT/3 and TS55 I will get the 1080 and 1400 rails. I'd like to have a 3rd rail to start and was recommended another 1400 but am convinced a 1900 is the way to go for cross-cutting. Yet I'd like to get the LR32 kit later this year so I thought one may as well get a 1400/LR32 right now anyway.
- 1) With a TS55 can one rip cut using 1400+1400 rail setup without having to plunge cut at start? I know this is too short for TS75.
- 2) In the similar vein of needing enough extra rail to engage the tool (in addition to length for the cut itself), what is the "usable" cabinet height that can be made/drilled with the 1400 length of the LR32 guide rail?

I realize these questions might seem rather tangential and finicky but I've found these little things do affect my long-term use/enjoyment of tools, and therefore I'm hoping some of you can shed light on these issues.

Thank you in advance for whatever insights you can provide. I'm looking forward to getting started.

 

[ccarrolladams]

My first post! — I'm new to the forum but have been visiting for a few months and am really impressed with the knowledge and spirit of helpfulness I've seen here.

Strictly a hobbyist. Professionally a designer/architect. Have been wanting to upgrade/expand my old tools and a current interiors project for a friend (aka requiring 'sweat equity') has finally given me an excuse (I mean, opportunity  ) and some funds to acquire Festools: TS55, MFT/3, CT, Drill, Router...

I'd appreciate your insights wrt the selection of the Router (OF1010 vs 1400) and CT (26 vs 36) and Guide Rails:

ROUTER —
To be honest I haven't used one much and back in school we had mostly table-type models so I'm pretty excited with this opposite type. Also, a lot of my designs deal with edge details and my attitude is that if I have one, I'll use it more and more. My Festool dealer recommended the 1400 and gave good reasons yet I tend to be suspicious of "middle-of-the-range/line". For the first year I probably will stick with sheet goods up to 1" thick, then maybe branch out to hardwoods later. I'd also like to work with dovetails. So my question to all you more experienced people:
- 1) Although I understand the OF 1400 can work with LR32 and the dovetail jigs, in day-to-day use is its size cumbersome for such work?
- 2) Or conversely, do you find the OF 1010 to be just annoyingly slightly underpowered for day-to-day use?
- 3) How limiting is the bit selection for the OF 1010 (1/4" and 8mm only)? Admittedly I don't have much real grasp of this despite looking at bits, because right now I can't imagine that far into my routing future.

CT VAC —
Seems like a no-brainer to spend add'l $50 for the higher capacity of the CT36. Then I started thinking about the add'l weight, esp. with the bag half-full or 3/4-full. I won't be moving this thing daily from job site to job site yet I don't have a permanent garage; I think it will stay in one (work) room on a weekly basis but an upcoming project will require it to go upstairs-downstairs.
- 1) Is a loaded CT 36 significantly more of a pain to move around? (dealer currently out of stock so can't compare)
- 2) With 3+ systainers on top, is CT26 or CT36 easier to maneuver in real life, or no big difference?

GUIDE RAILS —
With MFT/3 and TS55 I will get the 1080 and 1400 rails. I'd like to have a 3rd rail to start and was recommended another 1400 but am convinced a 1900 is the way to go for cross-cutting. Yet I'd like to get the LR32 kit later this year so I thought one may as well get a 1400/LR32 right now anyway.
- 1) With a TS55 can one rip cut using 1400+1400 rail setup without having to plunge cut at start? I know this is too short for TS75.
- 2) In the similar vein of needing enough extra rail to engage the tool (in addition to length for the cut itself), what is the "usable" cabinet height that can be made/drilled with the 1400 length of the LR32 guide rail?

I realize these questions might seem rather tangential and finicky but I've found these little things do affect my long-term use/enjoyment of tools, and therefore I'm hoping some of you can shed light on these issues.

Thank you in advance for whatever insights you can provide. I'm looking forward to getting started.

  [welcome]  to The FOG, PWS

As for the choice of dust extractor, since you are not planing to earn your living with your Festools, I suggest the CT26. You would need to go through a bunch of bags to reach a return on investment where the increased capacity per bag vs the price difference on purchase works out. I have been making a substantial income from my woodworking since 2006 and still consider my CT22s a marvelous investment. For years I had to rent space in many different shops, meaning my first CT22 was moved often, and seldom with a near empty bag. I have always appreciated the weight savings compared to the CT33. Two weeks after I bought my first TS55 and CT22, a good friend of mine, who is a talented hobby woodworker, decided bigger is better so he bought a CT33 with his TS55. In 6 years I think he is still on his second carton of paper bags, and calls me to help him change bags every year of so. Just lugging his CT33 up f steps from his back yard to his house is for him a chore.

Your CT26 or whatever comes with the shorter 27mm AS hose. This you will need for all Festool sanders, the Domino, the jig saws and the two smaller routers, the OF1010 and the MFK700. You can use that hose for the TS saws and larger OF1400 and OF2200 routers, but dust extraction suffers and the larger routers generate chips which clog.

So, my suggestion is to right away but the Tradesman cleaning set which includes a 36mm AS hose. While the non anti static hoses will work with cleaning sets, they are a major pain with the tools. In many other conversations I have share my experience that when using the track saws the slight increase in stiffness of the 36mm hose actually reduces catching the hose on guide rails. Learning to control the hose is part of becoming effective with Festools.

Many dealers will allow you to swap the ordinary 1400mm rail for what I call a "Holy" rail for the slight difference in price. You asked about the tallest cabinet you can drill with the 1400mm rail without coupling it. Since in the 32mm System the top and bottom holes are at least 80mm from either the top and bottom of a side, that is enough to clamp without conflict with the LR32 router plate. I sometimes do use a 1400mm Holy rail on cabinets 48" tall. I do happen to own the longer 2424mm Holy rail which I use for true Pantry height cabinets. Until you have a dedicated shop I do not recommend buying any of the rails longer than 1900mm. The second or third time you remove and re-install the 1080 rail on your MFT you will decide to leave it there.

When I bought my first TS55 in 2006 the 1900mm rail was not available and I had no convenient way of transporting a rail over 8' in length. So what I did was buy 2 extra 1400mm rails and a pair of connectors. I used the third rail to ensure the coupled pair were straight. With the 110" rail I never had a problem making 8' rips and I did my cross cutting with the 1400mm rail. It not only can be done with a TS55, it also helps you practice the best methods of using your TS55. Of course these days I would buy a 1900mm rail as the third one and use it for the cross cuts.

Since you are thinking about going LR32 soon, I would make a deal so both of your 1400mm rails are Holy. Then, when you buy the LR32 accessory kit in a Systainer, it will include the special LR32 spacer and limit stop devices. You still need to purchase separately the normal pair of rail connectors. The LR32 connectors just ensure all the holes are 32mm apart. Then they are used to set stops on either end of the rail so the holes are positioned the way you want them relative to the top and bottom of sides. Everything else except a router and Holy rails you need are in the LR32 kit.

With respect to your dealer, I never recommend the OF1400 as a first router. You will find the OF1010 more than powerful enough to effective use of 1/4" and 8mm shank bits. This is an ideal router for dovetail work and also for drilling shelf pin holes. You told us you have little recent experience using routers. Remember the OF1010 is the least expensive Festool router. Sixty plus years ago my first router had 600 watts of power and weighed more than the OF2200. With accessories, care and practice you can use an OF1010 for trimming and certainly all the fancy edge details on stock up to 19mm thick. Later, when you need more power in your router and larger bits, I recommend the OF2200. It is expensive and it only includes a 1/2" collet, because 2200 watts is powerful enough it can damage smaller shanks. However, the OF2200 can use the 1/4" and 8mm collets from your OF1010. I just do not recommend doing so. From what you told us of your proposed projects I do not recommend an OF1400. I also do not suggest buying a MFK700 trim router until you start doing a lot of that work. The MFK700 costs more than the OF1010, but is so worth it when you are earning a living doing trimming.

This has been a long message and I must have skipped answering all your questions. Probably soon many other talented FOG member will add comments, tips and suggestions. You and everyone feel free to PM me. Oh yes, do what you must to participate in Festool End User classes at either the Lebanon, IN or Henderson, NV training centers. To get the most out of your Festools having good coaching is a big help.

 

[Kev]

The parallels ...

OK

Router. I have an OF 1400 - its great - but I'm going to get a OF 1010 and OF 2200. Why? I want to use te OF 1010 in jigs for light work and put the OF 2200 in a CMS module and have it on standby for "big stuff". (I'm sun setting a minster Hitachi and a little Makita). In hindsight would I have also bought the OF 1400? Yeh - its light and powerful and just great.

Vac. Get the CT36 with the boom arm. No discussion - just do it.

Guide rails. Get the big LR32 holy rail as your next rail - I have regrets not doing that.

The rest. Say "bye bye bank balance".

Getting hands on is like a drug when you spend you time in concepts and design.

BTW ...  [welcome] [welcome] [welcome]

Kev.

 

[Kev]

Cripes - in the time it takes me to write 5 lines - ccarrolladams writes MacBeth.

 

[pws]

At 1am local time no less! You guys are fanatics.

BTW Peter Halle kindly suggested to me that my thread title "Router Router" could be more informative — I apologize as that was a lazy placeholder I absentmindedly typed in whilst composing my message. I've since revised it, so hopefully less confusion now.

 

[Kev]

At 1am local time no less! You guys are fanatics.

BTW Peter Halle kindly suggested to me that my thread title "Router Router" could be more informative — I apologize as that was a lazy placeholder I absentmindedly typed in whilst composing my message. I've since revised it, so hopefully less confusion now.

I concurr - change it to "router, router, router" ... After all, Festool have 3.

 

[pws]

I concurr - change it to "router, router, router" ... After all, Festool have 3.

Ha it does seem like that's the easy way to slip down the slope. But I'd hope to make a decent amount of stuff before I do that.

And wrt esp. to ccarrolladams advice — I was looking for exactly this kind of wisdom (reminds me of my high school algebra teacher who knew what we did wrong and why even before we showed him our answers) and greatly appreciate it. I know Festool doesn't make bad tools but it's sometimes hard to see ahead clearly, esp. when one hasn't used some of these tool categories sufficiently to know what nuances to consider.

 

[ccarrolladams]

PWS,

I forgot to mention that with your guide rails you will find a supply of Festool clamps and clamping elements most useful. The quick clamps can be convenient, but there are situations where a screw clamp is better. Do not forget the longer screw clamps.

 

[williaty]

- 2) Or conversely, do you find the OF 1010 to be just annoyingly slightly underpowered for day-to-day use?
- 3) How limiting is the bit selection for the OF 1010 (1/4" and 8mm only)? Admittedly I don't have much real grasp of this despite looking at bits, because right now I can't imagine that far into my routing future.

I have yet to find anything for which the 1010 doesn't have enough power. You'll find that you can't buy large enough bits to allow you to overpower the router. Which sort of leads you to your other question. In the US, there's definitely going to be bits you can't find in either 1/4" or 8mm shank. However, the situation just got MUCH better since Lee Valley released their line of 8mm-shanked bits. They're even green!

1) With a TS55 can one rip cut using 1400+1400 rail setup without having to plunge cut at start? I know this is too short for TS75.

Barely. 1400+1900 is better because then you also can do the longest diagonal you can do in the US (across a 4x8 sheet) safely. It gets dicey to do that with a 1400+1400.

 

[MrToolJunkie]

Welcome to the FOG!

Not much to add here, but if you plan on only having one router, the 1400 is a good choice.  If you plan on having more than one router, then I would opt for the 1010 and 2200 -- these two would cover everything you could need in hand-held routing.  1/4 inch bits are not limiting at all and pretty much any profile you would find in 1/2 inch is available in 1/4 inch except for the really big bits, but that is where you would want the power of the 2200. 

Scot

 

[jonathan-m]

For what it's worth, if I could start over I'd get:

- CT26 or higher instead of my Fein Dustex 40. The only reason being the option to put on the accesories, like the boomarm, workcenter and systainers on top. The Fein is a lot cheaper, every bit as powerful as the CT, has variable speed and is even quiter than the CT's, but it's form makes it quite cumbersome and you'll still have to buy a few extra's to pimp it out a bit.

- The OF1400 has much better dust collection than the OF1010 imho. The 2200 is a very big and heavy router. Absolutely lovely when you're working with hardwood but for smaller jobs it's borderline too cumbersome. If you get the 0F2020 you'll probably end up getting an extra smaller/lighter router anyway and then the OF1400 is a the better choice over the OF1010.

- 1900 rail for crosscuts. I can't tell you how many times I've cursed myself for being cheap and getting the 1400 to save a few bucks when I started out.

- Simply get a Mafell MT55. I can't recommend this saw enough. Fully compatible with my festool rails. Much better dust collection, no tearout whatsoever on melamine even without prescoring, has much more power for cutting hardwoods. It cuts through them like butter and doesnt bog down like my TS55 where I had to cut in multiple passes out of fear that my saw might give out. The TS55 is a great saw, the Mafell is simply better in every aspect, period. It's a real no-brainer if there ever was one.
Mafell MT55 Demonstration.

Hope this helps makesyour choices a bit easier.

 

[ccarrolladams]

My experience has been that the OF1010 has proven to extract dust magnificently as I use that router. The OF1400 also extracts dust well, so long as you pay attention, but in no case does the OF1400 collect dust better than the OF1010 for a given operation.

Where I need larger bits than I feel practical on the OF1010, my experience has been the OF2200 collects dust much better than the OF1400.

Of course when the operator is not paying attention dust collection using any router suffers.

 

[Tinker]

I concurr - change it to "router, router, router" ... After all, Festool have 3.
[/quote]

You guys from Down Under not only read upside down, you can't count  [poke]
Or were you going to hit him with the little 700 after he slides unto the slippery slope.  [eek]
that would just be not nice [doh]

Oh well, I admit i would have done the same thing  :
Tinker

 

[andy5405]

The 1900 rail is far more useful than you could ever imagine, especially combined with the 1080 and 1400 you propose.

The CT26 is a handful in terms of easy portability when it starts to fill up, I have no desire for the extra capacity of a CT36.

Can't comment on the routers, I have a pimped Dewalt that works for me. If it dies, I may go green.

The good thing about Festool is that you can't really make bad decisions, they have a 30 day suck it and see policy and beyond that stick it on ebay and make a minimum of 75% of new money.