Has anyone used this before for cabinets?

[fidelfs]

Hi,

I am a hobbiest that likes to try new things and I found this on the web.  It looks interesting, specially that I don't like to use toe kicks within the cabinet.  I made mines and level them by themselves and then I put the cabinet on top.

This could make my life easier.  EZ-level website

 

[mastercabman]

I have seen it.At $15 a set,as a sub,you don't make any money!!!
SAVING TIME????? ??? ???  I think you can get cabinets level a lot quiker with shims!
You need to install those devices,drill a hole at the front of the toe kick.  THAT TAKES TIME!!! THEN you need to level your cabinets.
A bundle of cedar shims is about $3-4 and you can do a couple kitchens.

 

[Jonhilgen]

I'm with mastercabman.  I install cabs for a living, the time you spend installing the ezlevel, you could gave set the cabinets...Time is money, but money is money as well.  At that cost, I would lose my shirt.  Nice concept, if cabinet manufacturers install it (they have no incentive to) then great, I'll use it.  But they won't.

Jon

 

[Holzhacker]

Yeah, that's total jerk-off stuff for homeowners and newbies. I wouldn't be caught dead on a job with those gimmicks. Watch the dummy fly out the door who shows up on one of my jobs with any of that gimmicky stuff.
Use shims at the floor and wall as needed and adjust your wall screws to tighten in place. No big deal on base cabinets. Remember it's a 2' span, if your floors are that far off to make leveling a big issue, you have other issues to contend with. The important factor is that the tops of cabinets line up across the run so that tops are properly supported. Especially if using granite or composites.

 

[erock]

You guys are crazy!
This is the future!  Embrace the new technology!  All the extra steps it takes to install the ez-leveler product is well worth it!
Your customer will think you are ahead of the curve!

Just joking.....this product is a joke!

Funny...if you check out the pricing on the web site he still sells composite shims!

oh and it lifts the cabinet off the ground incase of a flood??
wouldn't the water come from the sink base cabinet???  From INSIDE the cabinet?

 

[jimbo51]

From a structural engineering point of view, this system is far superior to the use of soft wood shims and screws driven into softwood studs. In this system the cabinets are supported from the floor by four steel structures with enough strength to support the heaviest load of stone countertop and objects stored in the cabinets. Also, the level is much easier to readjust after the installation in the event of settling of the overall supporting structure.

In the wood shim method, cabinets are leveled before the countertop is put on. If the shims shift or compress, the major supporting strength could be coming from the screws holding the cabinet to the wall. Essentially the base cabinet might be hung on the wall. Given the weight of stone countertop and potential appliances, this is not an ideal structural situation.

For high end customers, this system could be offered as an extra cost enhancement thus eliminating any contractor profit concerns. When large amounts of money are being spent on the cabinets and countertops, the concept of doing the installation with the cheapest possible methods may not be the best selling point.

Festool products sell based on higher quality and innovative engineering. Why the contempt for the same concept in other products?

 

[Alan m]

i think this is a supior way of doing this job than shims..
over here we have leveling feet that screw to the bottom of the cabinet. we dont allow the sides of the cabinets to come down past the bottom. there is around 6" under the cabinets. each can be adjusted from the front (albe it mire aquard than this set up).
if we didnt have these i would use a product similer to this.
i have used shimes on 1 run of cabinets in the past and found it a pain in the asre. you think you are getting somewhere and then have to raise the whole lot up a 1/4". i will never use them again .

i know it is a lot dearer to use than shims but the labour saving will add and ballence out.

 

[mlfaber]

Interesting concept...  Please post a review if you decide to go with it.

 

[Ken Nagrod]

I tried contacting Brooks, the owner.  He can't even handle a phone.  My opinion, stick with the tried and true, let someone else be the guinea pig.

 

[Mirko]

I use shims that I make...

We have a wooden box that holds 3 3/4" X 3 3/4" blocks in thicknesses from Veneer 1/64 - 1/8 up to 3/4. Its all scrap and its free.
These block have more uses as well.

My cabinets have the kicks attached, I prefer this method, compared to "loose" kicks or the cabinets with the cheap levellers.

What is nice about my shims is that they are usually plywood or mdf and they lay flat and will not compress.
To shim the rear of the cabinet just do it the way the guy in the video, by placing a shim stack under the kick and let it hang out so it supports the next cabinet.
At the front just keep them flush, and you will never have to go around and flush cut cedar shims anymore.. HA!

I still use the cedar shingle type shims but only about 10% of the time.

I think these EZ-shims are a complete waste of time, and are too costly for most installers.

 

[jmbfestool]

i think this is a supior way of doing this job than shims..
over here we have leveling feet that screw to the bottom of the cabinet. we dont allow the sides of the cabinets to come down past the bottom. there is around 6" under the cabinets. each can be adjusted from the front (albe it mire aquard than this set up).
if we didnt have these i would use a product similer to this.
i have used shimes on 1 run of cabinets in the past and found it a pain in the asre. you think you are getting somewhere and then have to raise the whole lot up a 1/4". i will never use them again .

i know it is a lot dearer to use than shims but the labour saving will add and ballence out.

Totally agree with you alan

I cant believe people still use shimes crazy!  They are sooooooo soooooo soooo slow and rubbish and akward.  Out dated and if you make them your self your adding more labour time.      The bloke is on about feet which adjust through  the top so you need to drill holes in your cabinet but the plastic feet I use you adjust by turning them manually underneath so no holes in your cabinet.

Like Alan said you think you found the highest point in the room but then you come a across a area which is higher you then have to go back and adjust everything. I have done it I have used shimes and plastic packers  it was a joke took so much longer never again!

  Also like Alan said our sides stop at the bottom of the cabinets what's the point in having them going so far down. You stick a end panel on which you scribe to the floor so it sits flush waist of wood and more awkward for services pipes and cables. 

I shake my head to people using shimes [unsure]

Jmb

 

[Jonhilgen]

I

i think this is a supior way of doing this job than shims..
over here we have leveling feet that screw to the bottom of the cabinet. we dont allow the sides of the cabinets to come down past the bottom. there is around 6" under the cabinets. each can be adjusted from the front (albe it mire aquard than this set up).
if we didnt have these i would use a product similer to this.
i have used shimes on 1 run of cabinets in the past and found it a pain in the asre. you think you are getting somewhere and then have to raise the whole lot up a 1/4". i will never use them again .

i know it is a lot dearer to use than shims but the labour saving will add and ballence out.

I agree that making shims is a little too time consuming, but installing with them is not.  At least not if you know what youre doing.  Re set an entire run of cabinets because you hit a high point in the room?  Seriously?  How about taking two minutes to trim the cabinets, then keep moving.  Very easy and fast when using the TS.

The adjustable legs are garbage, slide a cabinet even a little and they break off.  Great, now I have to flip the cabinet over and reinstall the leg(s).  Not only that, but most of the high end cabinet manufacturers don't use adjustable feet, so it isn't even an option.

Shims settling?  Once again, seriously?  I can see this happening if you shim the cabinets up too high, like staking two shims at full height.  Shouldn't be done. 

I do sometimes send a little more time making sure everything is on plane, but take a look at the picture and you'll wonder why I even bother.  Damn granite on the last few jobs is warped!

 

[Deansocial]

I

i think this is a supior way of doing this job than shims..
over here we have leveling feet that screw to the bottom of the cabinet. we dont allow the sides of the cabinets to come down past the bottom. there is around 6" under the cabinets. each can be adjusted from the front (albe it mire aquard than this set up).
if we didnt have these i would use a product similer to this.
i have used shimes on 1 run of cabinets in the past and found it a pain in the asre. you think you are getting somewhere and then have to raise the whole lot up a 1/4". i will never use them again .

i know it is a lot dearer to use than shims but the labour saving will add and ballence out.

I agree that making shims is a little too time consuming, but installing with them is not.  At least not if you know what youre doing.  Re set an entire run of cabinets because you hit a high point in the room?  Seriously?  How about taking two minutes to trim the cabinets, then keep moving.  Very easy and fast when using the TS.

The adjustable legs are garbage, slide a cabinet even a little and they break off.  Great, now I have to flip the cabinet over and reinstall the leg(s).  Not only that, but most of the high end cabinet manufacturers don't use adjustable feet, so it isn't even an option.

Shims settling?  Once again, seriously?  I can see this happening if you shim the cabinets up too high, like staking two shims at full height.  Shouldn't be done. 

I do sometimes send a little more time making sure everything is on plane, but take a look at the picture and you'll wonder why I even bother.  Damn granite on the last few jobs is warped!

plastic legs don't break that easy, high end german kitchen have them. I you hit a high spot you could cut a cabinet down but not a fridge or dishwasher, anyway try putting a level on the floor before you start. Shims suck bigtime

 

[Alan m]

i notice a trans atlantic split of opinion on this one

 

[Ken Nagrod]

i notice a trans atlantic split of opinion on this one

Like everything else, but I'm surprised by the Brits responses. After all, they came up with the tune Shim Shimminy Shim Shimminy Shim Shim...

Sorry, couldn't resist a little Mary Poppins humor.

 

[fidelfs]

I am not saying they are superior, because I don't know.  I am asking everybody (I am the OP) so I can make up my mind.
BUT...

I work in IT and every time we want to change a way to do things, there is a lot of resistance; users tell me they have always done it that way, and it is better.

Could it be one of those cases? 

This is just my hobby, woodworking that is.  So I don't have the knowledge nor the experience, but it sounds something similar to what I described above.

This is my objective opinion, without knowing how good those ez-level things are.

Cons.
- Wood shims settling, it depends on the type of wood and how many you use and how you install.  (This can go either way).
- Faster with shims. Well, if you don't make the toe kick at all, then that time can be used for installing the legs.  (so I think that is relative).
- Legs will break.  I don't think this one is true, I think that, because the European industry uses this and I don't think they will base the whole industry on something that doesn't work.

Please take my findings with a grain of salt, I am not a pro.

Could be this one of those cases of resistance to change? or do they just not work flat out?

 

[mastercabman]

i know it is a lot dearer to use than shims but the labour saving will add and ballence out.

LABOR SAVING???    You do realize that you have to install all of those leveler?  And drill a hole on the front of the toe kick? per set?
You don't think it is a lots of work?

Let's see how much this is costing you.
1 SET = $15.00
On average a new construction house,pays about $300.00-$400.00
I can get it done in 1 day.On average i will need 15-20 sets= $225.00-$350.00  Does that make any sense?
Also,it will most likely take you about 10 minuts to instal a set.That would be over 2 hours of your time!!!! [eek]
Save you time and money? ???
There is nothing wrong with cedar shims.I use them all the time.

 

[peter halle]

While searching the web to look at the history of kitchen cabinets I came across some information to share that might explain the the divide in opinions of legs versus integrated toe kicks and cabinet design in general

First:  

"Adjustable feet
A relatively new type of adjustable leg has been adopted from the European cabinet system which offers several advantages. First off, in making base cabinets for kitchens, the cabinet sides would be cut to 34½ inches, yielding four cabinet side blanks per 4 foot by 8 foot sheet. Using the adjustable feet, the side blanks are cut to 30 inches, thus yielding six cabinet side per sheet. These feet can be secured to the bottom of the cabinet by having the leg base screwed onto the cabinet bottom. They can also be attached by means of a hole drilled through the cabinet bottom at specific locations. The legs are then attached to the cabinet bottom by a slotted, hollow machine screw. The height of the cabinet can be adjusted from inside the cabinet, simply by inserting a screwdriver into the slot and turning to raise or lower the cabinet. The holes in the cabinet are capped by plastic inserts, making the appearance more acceptable for residential cabinets. Using these feet, the cabinets need not be shimmed or scribed to the floor for leveling. The toe kick board is attached to the cabinet by means of a clip, which is either screwed onto the back side of the kick board, or a barbed plastic clip is inserted into a saw kerf, also made on the back side of the kick board. This toe kick board can be made to fit each base cabinet, or made to fit a run of cabinets. [6] Kitchen cabinets, or any cabinet generally at which a person may stand, usually have a fully enclosed base in which the front edge has been set back 75 mm or so to provide room for toes, known as the kick space."

One real reason for the development of legs - increased yield of materials.

I am sure that you can get various qualities of adjustable legs just like anything else.

Second:

Another interesting link explaining cabinet construction and reasons why they have evolved, benefits of different styles, etc:  Cabinet Information

I am not jumping into the fray of one versus the other, just offering some food for thought - OR NOT.  Up to you.

Peter

 

[justinmcf]

hi mastercabman.

i have read alan's post and i am sure he is talking about the plastic adjustable feet being superior to the ezy-level system.

i agree. the ezy-level system is a joke. give me the plastic adjustable feet any day.

maybe i am a posh builder. i buy 5000 plastic packers in half millimetre increments for a couple of hundred bucks.
i hate cutting my own packers, the days are not long enough......

regards, justin.

 

[mastercabman]

hi mastercabman.

i have read alan's post and i am sure he is talking about the plastic adjustable feet being superior to the ezy-level system.

i agree. the ezy-level system is a joke. give me the plastic adjustable feet any day.

maybe i am a posh builder. i buy 5000 plastic packers in half millimetre increments for a couple of hundred bucks.
i hate cutting my own packers, the days are not long enough......

regards, justin.

OK,maybe he did,but it look like he was talking about the leveler that the OP was asking about.
I know all about those adjustable legs that you install on the bottom of the cabinet.
It's just another way to build cabinets.But the manufactuer drills the holes and suplies the legs.No cost to me exept for putting the legs on,witch is pretty simple.