Has the CMS-GE fallen out of favor?

[SubjectArc]

I’m shopping for a router table and am seriously considering the FT offering. I have looked around for more information but it seems to be a bit old and sparse. And a lot of classified ads [eek] Are FOG’ers using something different these days?

My alternative might be an incra setup. But I am mostly going to want to do dovetails (a big feature with incra) by hand. I would mainly be using a router table for edge treats and cope and stick door construction. Just want to get a sense of the CMS still being viable.

TIA!

 

[Cheese]

I think the CMS is still a viable approach however, it is more viable for someone that needs mobility. At $1800 you still need to purchase a Festool router $600-$1000.

If the router table will just sit in your shop then $2400-$2800 will buy you a lot of other options today. Cast iron top, Incra/Woodpeckers adjustable fence, aluminum billet router lift, LCD height gauges, fully enclosed base with storage room for bits...MLCS has a motorized router lift that indexes in .001" increments. I'm sure Woodpecker/Incra is not far behind.  [smile]

 

[TinyShop]

[member=73288]SubjectArc[/member] - since I note that you are new here, you should know that CMS in all of its forms has been discontinued worldwide. Plenty of background on this decision elsewhere on the forum. The search function is your friend.

 

[AlexThePalex]

you should know that CMS in all of its forms has been discontinued worldwide.

Europe and Australia for sure, but isn't it still sold in the US? The US has some crazy rules about power tools, but that doesn't mean they necessarily follow Europe's crazy rules about power tools.

 

[Cheese]

Europe and Australia for sure, but isn't it still sold in the US? The US has some crazy rules about power tools, but that doesn't mean they necessarily follow Europe's crazy rules about power tools.

Well that's the strange part...Festool USA announced last Sept/Oct that it was discontinued but they continue to offer it for sale and then in July, bumped the price an additional $40.  [huh]

 

[Svar]

you should know that CMS in all of its forms has been discontinued worldwide.

Europe and Australia for sure, but isn't it still sold in the US? The US has some crazy rules about power tools, but that doesn't mean they necessarily follow Europe's crazy rules about power tools.

We should join effort on writing crazy rules. [big grin]
About CMS. If this configuration violates new safety rules, wouldn't it make ANY router table with hand router in it violate these rules?

 

[TinyShop]

you should know that CMS in all of its forms has been discontinued worldwide.

Europe and Australia for sure, but isn't it still sold in the US? The US has some crazy rules about power tools, but that doesn't mean they necessarily follow Europe's crazy rules about power tools.

We should join effort on writing crazy rules. [big grin]
About CMS. If this configuration violates new safety rules, wouldn't it make ANY router table with hand router in it violate these rules?

Nothing crazy about it. It's called an inventory dump (my phrase). Dump your remaining global inventory on a county which won't know the difference (and jack the price at the same time to try and recover as much of the embedded costs of eliminating a design which didn't meet its expected longterm revenue goals).

 

[TinyShop]

you should know that CMS in all of its forms has been discontinued worldwide.

Europe and Australia for sure, but isn't it still sold in the US? The US has some crazy rules about power tools, but that doesn't mean they necessarily follow Europe's crazy rules about power tools.

We should join effort on writing crazy rules. [big grin]
About CMS. If this configuration violates new safety rules, wouldn't it make ANY router table with hand router in it violate these rules?

Yup.

 

[Stan Tillinghast]

Cheese—
I looked up the MCLS power lift. It requires an Android app .
I wonder how much of an advantage that would be in real life for an amateur woodworker like me.

I’m following this thread because I had already decided against the Festool router table, and am thinking about the Woodpeckers setup. I don’t need the Incra, because I do not plan to use their dovetail and other special joint system, and it takes up more room.

Looking for advice on this from those who have non-Festool router table setups.

 

[nclemmons]

Jessem also makes an excellent table, lift, and fence setup. 

 

[Bohdan]

We should join effort on writing crazy rules. [big grin]
About CMS. If this configuration violates new safety rules, wouldn't it make ANY router table with hand router in it violate these rules?

Only if the manufacturer makes both the router and the table. If they come from different sources then it's OK.

 

[DynaGlide]

I quite like my CMS GE but for the money new I'd probably look elsewhere. I was concerned about dust collection without a proper dust collector which drew me toward the CMS. It hooks up to my CT. For my usage it's great.

 

[Svar]

About CMS. If this configuration violates new safety rules, wouldn't it make ANY router table with hand router in it violate these rules?

Only if the manufacturer makes both the router and the table. If they come from different sources then it's OK.

So, if you mix brands to build a router table it's not a safety issue any more? That does not make any sense.

 

[Bohdan]

So, if you mix brands to build a router table it's not a safety issue any more? That does not make any sense.

The ruling is that if you manufacture a portable tool that has a table that converts it into a "fixed" machine it must be fitted with an NVR switch. Because the CMS's switch can be bypassed by plugging the router or saw into a wall outlet so as to bypass the switch it is no longer "legal". It is because of this loophole that Festool can no longer offer the CMS for sale. However as I see it any other manufacturer can offer a router/saw table as long as they don't make a router/saw to fit it.

If Festools routers/saw/etc were equiped with a builtin NVR switch they could still sell the CMS.

This ruling would also apply to the components that convert the planner to a jointer.

 

[Svar]

So, if you mix brands to build a router table it's not a safety issue any more? That does not make any sense.

The ruling is that if you manufacture a portable tool that has a table that converts it into a "fixed" machine it must be fitted with an NVR switch. Because the CMS's switch can be bypassed by plugging the router or saw into a wall outlet so as to bypass the switch it is no longer "legal". It is because of this loophole that Festool can no longer offer the CMS for sale. However as I see it any other manufacturer can offer a router/saw table as long as they don't make a router/saw to fit it.
If Festools routers/saw/etc were equiped with a builtin NVR switch they could still sell the CMS.

I'm not aware of any router on the market today equipped with NVR switch. Hence, any router table manufacturer seems to be in violation of the new safety rules, because customer has no other option but to install non-NVR router into it. I realize this is a loophole, but it's just insane.
A reasonable solution off course would be putting NVR switches on power tools. Metabo has them on some angle grinders.

 

[Bohdan]

I'm not aware of any router on the market today equipped with NVR switch. Hence, any router table manufacturer seems to be in violation of the new safety rules, because customer has no other option but to install non-NVR router into it. I realize this is a loophole, but it's just insane.

It's not insane, it's the EU.  [eek]

 

[AlexThePalex]

I realize this is a loophole, but it's just insane.
A reasonable solution off course would be putting NVR switches on power tools. Metabo has them on some angle grinders.

There will be a time when they're standard on any power tool. Like all electronical components they will eventually make them so small you'll hardly notice they're there.

What is insane is that a solution that worked for over 50 years suddenly is not legal anymore. The EU is slowly choking our society to death with their rules. 

 

[ThisVeteranVlog]

I have the CMS-GE with a 1400 and absolutely love it. I picked it up used for $1300, pretty sweet deal for everything. I have zero intentions of doing detailed dovetail routing or the like, so the CMS fit my needs perfectly. Having that sliding drawer has already come in handy in recent projects, I would not have been able to certain cuts without that feature alone.

 

[simonh]

My alternative might be an incra setup. But I am mostly going to want to do dovetails (a big feature with incra) by hand. I would mainly be using a router table for edge treats and cope and stick door construction. Just want to get a sense of the CMS still being viable.

I'd seriously take a look at the Jesem setup with the TA Fence and Mite-R-Slide II or the cheaper fence and slider.

 

[jeh]

There is no reason to complain. The law(s) is/are in effect. Time to move on to a different solution. The VL and GE are not the best solutions for anything. At best they are a compromise in terms of the table and fence. The plus is the fit in the system and for some that is all they need, however if you have the floor space for dedicated router table then there a multitude of options available with awesome lifts and huge tables granted they do not work with Festool routers.