Has the CMS-GE fallen out of favor?

[AlexThePalex]

There is no reason to complain. The law(s) is/are in effect. Time to move on to a different solution.

You lay down and take it ..... everytime somebody else makes a decision for you?

 

[Cheese]

What Festool should have done was to market the various CMS modules under the Protool name, including the orange logo and kept the actual power tools under the Festool green banner...no one would have been the wiser.  [big grin]  [poke]

 

[jeh]

There is no reason to complain. The law(s) is/are in effect. Time to move on to a different solution.

You lay down and take it ..... everytime somebody else makes a decision for you?

Nope, but it is far too late and it's a power tool law and not something that impacts my life in any way. If you are going to fight it has to be a worthy cause and this is not worth a moments thought. I'd consider this the same as having (or buying an older car) without any airbags. Nothing wrong with it other than cars without them are no longer available for purchase as new. You can fight it all you want, but you will not win. Spend your energy on something you can possibly affect.

 

[bertv]

There is no reason to complain. The law(s) is/are in effect. Time to move on to a different solution.

You lay down and take it ..... everytime somebody else makes a decision for you?

Well, I like that everyone drives on the right side of the road over here. I remember seeing how the people in Sweden reacted to switching from left to right in one day — not many were laying down. In fact everyone complied. I wonder why?

 

[AlexThePalex]

Spend your energy on something you can possibly affect.

I am all for the EU becomming one. But the way it works now is VERY undemocratic, and this is just one drop in a very large cesspool.

The last word about this whole process is not said yet, and I've got a few of them on my lips.

Well, I like that everyone drives on the right side of the road over here. I remember seeing how the people in Sweden reacted to switching from left to right in one day — not many were laying down. In fact everyone complied. I wonder why?

Because it was a reasonable decision to realise they were the odd ones out and to correct that, and Swedes are very reasonable people.

This was not an EU Decision, but a Swedish decision. BTW, "taking it laying down" means complying without question.

On the other hand, there is absolutely nothing reasonable about how the EU works right now. Our ancestors FOUGHT for their democratic rights, while the generations right now give it all away again for a cup of coffee and an iPad.

Ok, I realise I'm getting political, I'll STFU now.

 

[DeformedTree]

While I think this is a rule that people can definitely poke holes at, it's something that once everyone changes, people will move on.

Primarily, if Festool brings out a dedicated router table.  If they take OF2200 and CS saw bits, put them together as one, folks will probably move on quickly.  This very well will be more price efficient too.  I think this is the head scratcher,  it's not like this law came out of the no where.  Festool had time and it's pretty amazing they didn't get something ready and even start to market before the CMS ended.

I'm not a fan of mix matched jumble of different manufactures parts to make a setup.  I liked the CMS setup, but with it being discontinued, and the other modules never being sold in the US, it made for a less than great answer. I don't think there is much in the way of tables that take Festool Routers, and the other conventional solutions have no appeal to me, so right now, I won't own a router table any time soon. 

I think the idea of some generic router table, and then some big dumb router bolted to it has been around for so long that it's hard for people to think any other way.

I would think companies will be bringing out solutions (maybe they have outside N. America).  I doubt they want to all give up on that bit of router sales.

 

[jcrowe1950]

[member=73288]SubjectArc[/member] - since I note that you are new here, you should know that CMS in all of its forms has been discontinued worldwide. Plenty of background on this decision elsewhere on the forum. The search function is your friend.

I asked my Festool regional sales rep about this a while back and he told me that the CMS router tables were not discontinued, but rather only available in the full kit. It used to be available in the U.S. in the full kit form and a slightly cheaper form that IIRC did not include the sliding table. IMO, the standalone version makes some degree of sense because in addition to the sliding table, good fence, typical Festool dust extraction and interesting pin routing safety function, it includes a table extension. Of course with the extrusions, you can add on a MW 1000 top. Currently, we can still get them for customers. Festool USA only supports the OF 1010 and OF 1400 in the CMS in the U.S. Many people use the OF 2200 in the CMS router tables as well. 8)

 

[yetihunter]

If money is an object, put words like Jessem and Woodpeckers on a wall and throw a dart at it. I’ve been there and done that and since I’m down to only an of1010 and an of1400, if I bought a router table again, it would be the CMS.  Same functionality, added portability and really not much less sturdy.  The $1700 seems like a lot, but you get extensions and a sliding table in that kit and the routers go in and out without much fuss.  The Taiwanese factories hooked up with a supplier of cast iron tables so now that’s an option on the pick an OEM router table by the tail “options” list.  But last I checked, aluminum isn’t particle board with a plastic veneer on it, either.  You can make dust collection work on these other router tables, but it’s kind of a nightmare.  They’ve gotten better now that you can get an off the shelf dust box included with the kit, but you’re still sucking dust through your router...

 

[peter halle]

This is one of those threads where the answer to question depends on location - at this point in time.  I inquired this morning and in North America - where the OP appears to live - the CMS-GE is still a current item.  The CMS Basic is discontinued.  I think that reading the writing on the wall might be prudent.  If you are on the fence about a CMS table you might want to get off that fence sooner versus later.

It is a premium product that is designed for mobility and easy mounting / dismounting of a router.  The full kit with the sliding table does offer benefits that are not normally seen in other router tables.  But each user is different and obviously there are cost versus rewards decisions that will personally come into play.

I don't use mine much, but I sure am glad that I purchased mine and it is there when I need it.

Peter

 

[Sparktrician]

This is one of those threads where the answer to question depends on location - at this point in time.  I inquired this morning and in North America - where the OP appears to live - the CMS-GE is still a current item.  The CMS Basic is discontinued.  I think that reading the writing on the wall might be prudent.  If you are on the fence about a CMS table you might want to get off that fence sooner versus later.

It is a premium product that is designed for mobility and easy mounting / dismounting of a router.  The full kit with the sliding table does offer benefits that are not normally seen in other router tables.  But each user is different and obviously there are cost versus rewards decisions that will personally come into play.

I don't use mine much, but I sure am glad that I purchased mine and it is there when I need it.

Peter

I concur with Peter.  It's not an every-day tool, but it is the right tool when I need a reliable, predictable router table (right now).  To say that it's a perfect tool would be inaccurate.  There are several aspects that I'd prefer to have done differently, like the fence and the power switch.  That said, until such time comes that I need to assemble a router table that truly reflects my needs and workflow, the CMS is just fine for me.

 

[Michael Kellough]

With this kit you don’t “suck dust through the router”.

But it’s probably not handy if you take the router out of the table often.

 

[DeformedTree]

If money is an object, put words like Jessem and Woodpeckers on a wall and throw a dart at it. I’ve been there and done that and since I’m down to only an of1010 and an of1400, if I bought a router table again, it would be the CMS.  Same functionality, added portability and really not much less sturdy.  The $1700 seems like a lot, but you get extensions and a sliding table in that kit and the routers go in and out without much fuss.  The Taiwanese factories hooked up with a supplier of cast iron tables so now that’s an option on the pick an OEM router table by the tail “options” list.  But last I checked, aluminum isn’t particle board with a plastic veneer on it, either.  You can make dust collection work on these other router tables, but it’s kind of a nightmare.  They’ve gotten better now that you can get an off the shelf dust box included with the kit, but you’re still sucking dust through your router...

I wouldn't agree to the idea if money doesn't matter.  Those products have zero interest to a lot of folks.  Its still "build a kludge", doesn't matter how quality it might be.    That was the beauty of the CMS setup.  In the US though, a system of issues came up, from lack of OF2200 offical support, to removal of metric routers.    I'd like to have a metric, 230V OF2200 and the matching CMS insert stuff.  That isn't happening, I might be able to get the German version of the router someday, but you can't get the insert.  Buying the US version, then trying to get the missing OF2200 parts, and then trying to get parts to make it 230V is not really a great solution.

I agree with Peter, even if you don't use it all the time, the CMS setup files a nice spot.  And far as price, I did the math before, and while it looks expensive, it's really not when you add up the "build a kludge" solutions.

The ability to have a nice router table, that folds up nicely, with good dust collection, etc is where there is nothing out there.  I really think if they just build something around the CS/TKS chassis and called it a day, things would be good. 

I was/would like to have something similar to the CMS plate setup so I can mount it in my table saw setup, hook it into that CT. But a stand alone unit is good to, especialy if it packs up pretty well when not in use.

Some research makes it look like router solutions for plunge routers are more common in the EU,  I hope something comes out.

 

[TinyShop]

[member=68063]DeformedTree[/member] - my understanding is that there is nothing "missing" from the CMS OF/GE sold in N.A. and that, in contrast, the various components included (like throat rings, etc.) are identical the world over. IOW aside from the usual disclaimer/warning issued by forum moderators anytime anyone residing in N.A. suggests it, there's nothing stopping us west of the Atlantic from fitting an OF2200 to a CMS GE/OF. The issue (which has been discussed extensively elsewhere on the forum) is that the table mounted switch might struggle with the amp draw produced by the OF2200 given that it's apparently not UL rated appropriately.

 

[DeformedTree]

[member=68063]DeformedTree[/member] - my understanding is that there is nothing "missing" from the CMS OF/GE sold in N.A. and that, in contrast, the various components included (like throat rings, etc.) are identical the world over. IOW aside from the usual disclaimer/warning issued by forum moderators anytime anyone residing in N.A. suggests it, there's nothing stopping us west of the Atlantic from fitting an OF2200 to a CMS GE/OF. The issue (which has been discussed extensively elsewhere on the forum) is that the table mounted switch might struggle with the amp draw produced by the OF2200 given that it's apparently not UL rated appropriately.

My reading has been that at some point in time, they stopped including some of those parts (throat rings), you have to get it elsewhere.  Still, if I want a 230V unit, it still doesn't help.    Yes, they didn't warranty the OF2200 110V because of belief of current draw.

Like many things festool, they messed things up by making for a series of complexities/complications.  Not selling full CMS stuff in N.America (only ever offered router), not fully supporting OF2200 in 110V form in CMS, then making changes to routers (removing metric routers), thus making buying a router a problem, and of course not selling 230V tools in N.America.  Now with CMS clearly on the way out, investing in that setup is not really what folks like me want to do, as we have moved on to other solutions for tools (I was looking at getting a CMS with other modules at one time).  If they had never taken the metric tools away, I probably would be in a situation like peter and others and had bought the stuff all ready.  But with that issue, tool buying changed. In the past 110V wouldn't have been an issue, but as the other aspects causes issues, the solutions now create a 110V issue. I would largely pass on most festool stuff at this point, but when it comes to routers, there isn't much in options.

 

[Svar]

My reading has been that at some point in time, they stopped including some of those parts (throat rings), you have to get it elsewhere.  Still, if I want a 230V unit, it still doesn't help.    Yes, they didn't warranty the OF2200 110V because of belief of current draw.
Now with CMS clearly on the way out, investing in that setup is not really what folks like me want to do, as we have moved on to other solutions for tools (I was looking at getting a CMS with other modules at one time).  If they had never taken the metric tools away, I probably would be in a situation like peter and others and had bought the stuff all ready.  But with that issue, tool buying changed. In the past 110V wouldn't have been an issue, but as the other aspects causes issues, the solutions now create a 110V issue. I would largely pass on most festool stuff at this point, but when it comes to routers, there isn't much in options.

If you like CMS why not get it while you can. It'll give you decades of service. You can buy parts long after it's gone, especially from company like FT. Besides, it's a table, what can go wrong with that.
My approach is to stop chasing perfect setup. There won't be one. Want metric? It's just a sticker. Attach new one and move on. Get what's available and proceed to what's important - making dust.

 

[FestitaMakool]

I would say that the throat rings for OF 2200 is included:
[attachimg=1]
A new contactor (magnetic switch) for 220-240V is also the only item needed for the NVR switch provided with the either VL or GE table as the housing and outer switch facias are the same.
Cables for 110-120V is noticeably thicker so you wouldn’t need to exchange them for 220-240V use.

 

[Cheese]

As others have noted, the ring for the OF 2200 is already supplied with the kit. The only thing needed is the OF 2200.

About 6-9 months ago I chased down the parts list for the switch and I noted the ONLY part that was different between the 120 volt version & the 240 volt version was the power cord.  Rick Christopherson then chimed in and said that was because they were running the contacts in parallel so there are no internal parts that are different between the two voltages.

So purchase the CMS-GE...purchase a OF 2200...and let her buck.  [big grin]

 

[FestitaMakool]

You might be right Cheese, here are a comparison between those two switches.
(One that I bought from a fellow Festool user locally and exchanged the cables and switch)
[attachimg=1]
Edit: Forgot a photo with both the 110V cables and switch:

[attachimg=2]

 

[Stan Tillinghast]

OK, now you guys have me wondering again.
I always liked the sliding table on the FT router table; and I already have an OF 1400.
The full kit price of the Festool rig is not much different from the Jessem or Woodpeckers setups with a nice micro-adjust fence; and I have an old Bosch 1617 (I think) I would use for a motor.

I for one would appreciate more details on your experience with a Jessem or Woodpeckers router table, particularly in comparison with the Festool. Mobility is not an issue with me, but shop space is of course.

 

[jcrowe1950]

This is one of those threads where the answer to question depends on location - at this point in time.  I inquired this morning and in North America - where the OP appears to live - the CMS-GE is still a current item.  The CMS Basic is discontinued.  I think that reading the writing on the wall might be prudent.  If you are on the fence about a CMS table you might want to get off that fence sooner versus later.

It is a premium product that is designed for mobility and easy mounting / dismounting of a router.  The full kit with the sliding table does offer benefits that are not normally seen in other router tables.  But each user is different and obviously there are cost versus rewards decisions that will personally come into play.

I don't use mine much, but I sure am glad that I purchased mine and it is there when I need it.

Peter

  To echo what Peter said, this kit is very nice. The one at work is a VL which means it attaches to the V-groove in the MFT extrusion. Additionally, you can use the CMS-VL extrusion to mount an extension table on either side (from the MW 1000). The one at work was there when I started a bit over a year ago....I started using it after a router class with Greg Paolini. There are nice features of the setup that the competition still does not provide. That said, there is not, to my knowledge, a ring that will allow use of a Porter Cable style template bushing in the CMS-VL, which bit one of our customers. I suspect somebody with a 3D printer could solve that issue. I think Brian Sedgely (sp?) has some videos on this subject and we used the CMS-VL a good bit in the Festool architectural door class.