I am sorry if this has been discussed before but I am new here and I have not found it. I do see that there has been a lot of discussion about these 2 saws. I have the Milwaukee and the one thing that I am not happy with is the head deflection. Does anyone know if the Kapex is any better than the 6955 as far as head deflection? I suppose that I could just have a defective saw. It looks to me like it is just the design though. It may also be the way that I am using it but I do not think so. I am ready to change saws. I love my Domino so I would guess that the Kapex would be very good. I do not take this to job sites. It just sets in my shop. I do not have enough experience with SCMS to know if this is normal for all miter saws.
Head deflection on Kapex and Milwaukee 6955-20
- Thread starter dpphoto
- Start date
I have the Milwaukee, and haven't really had an issue with head deflection. I did have a little blade deflection with the stock blade, but switched to a Tenyru blade and stiffener. Since, I haven't had any problems except the ones that I have caused by trying to cut too fast.
richard.selwyn
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In my (humble) experience all SCMS suffer from some deflection. You have to watch your stance and how you move the saw. I've had the Kapex for about 18 months I think and if you are not careful how you pull it, it will deflect somewhat, but it is still one of the most accurate chop saws I have tried (apart from the high end Italian ones). I have a bigger Metabo which is perhaps a bit more solid, but its currently "upstairs" as the dust collection is useless. IMHO no chop saw will give you the accuracy of a good table saw and no chop saw has really good dust collection, but the Kapex beats the competition on both counts.
nickao
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No measurable or noticeable head deflection on Milwaukee.
Richard is correct any slider is prone to deflection, but on the Kapex or Milwaukee I have experienced none. Of course I can make any slider deflect by pushing to the side and forcing it. Some saws just need a gentler touch, others you literally have to push to the side to get the deflection.
If changing your blade WITH Stiffener does not work than replace the saw if it bothers you. The Milwaukee is a less refined saw than the Kapex for sure, but as far as deflection neither exhibits any that affect my work at all. Actually, the only saw I ever noticed deflection on was on my Ridgid slider, I changed to a Chop Master Blade with Stiffener and it went away.
Richard is correct any slider is prone to deflection, but on the Kapex or Milwaukee I have experienced none. Of course I can make any slider deflect by pushing to the side and forcing it. Some saws just need a gentler touch, others you literally have to push to the side to get the deflection.
If changing your blade WITH Stiffener does not work than replace the saw if it bothers you. The Milwaukee is a less refined saw than the Kapex for sure, but as far as deflection neither exhibits any that affect my work at all. Actually, the only saw I ever noticed deflection on was on my Ridgid slider, I changed to a Chop Master Blade with Stiffener and it went away.
Thank you for your responses. I went and exchanged my Milwaukee for another one. The head deflection was better. The other one must have been defective. With that said I still could not adjust it for the cut accuracy that I wanted. I went to the Woodcraft store and made some cuts on the Kapex that where much better than the Milwaukee. I asked if they had tweaked the settings and they said no. With the 30 day test period I bought one. Straight out of the box the cuts were more accurate than what I have been getting. I do believe that both of these saws have their place. I am not sure that they should be compared to each other. I like features on each of them and dislike features or lack of on both of them. I do believe that I will be able to get more consistant and closer to furniture grade cuts with the Kapex. Since I have not had much time with the Kapex it will take me some time to confirm that.
Forrest Anderson
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dpphoto said:
I particularly agree with the sentence I've put in bold above.
Like I said in my post in the Kapex vs 7"1/4 hickory flooring thread:
I suggest that whilst both are high-end sliding compound mitre saws, the two machines are quite different. The Milwaukee is a much larger beast altogether - it has a 12" diameter blade and weighs 65lbs (which is 12lbs heavier than DeWalt's largest SCMS, the DW718), whereas the Kapex has a 10 1/4" blade and weighs just 47lbs. Because of the larger blade, the Milwaukee can cut 13 1/2 x 4" (0 deg bevel, 90 deg mitre), whilst the Kapex can only cut 12" x 3 15/32".
When it comes to their larger machines, Festool tend to cater for tradesmen who move from site to site. Whilst the Milwaukee would make an excellent saw for a shop, at that weight I wouldn't want to move it very much! The Kapex is much more portable, and Festool apply the same design principles to their table saws like the CS50 and CS70 (which are not available in the USA), in that they are lightweight and designed to be easily moved from A to B.
Each saw is top of the respective manufacturer's range, but they target a different set of users.
Forrest
nickao
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I had both saws and I have seen none of your work so I have no idea what kind of accuracy you are talking about that the Milwaukee can not achieve. Possibly you do marquetry level work with the Miter boxes.
I returned my kapex and am so very happy with the Milwaukee so I just do not get why you say you can not compare them. I find it very, very accurate, exactly what are you not finding accurate? I put the miter on 36.4 and make a cut and it is EXACTLY 36.4. I put the digital on 43.8 and the cut is EXACTLY 43.8. I can not put the Kapex on these angles and when I tried the cuts were never exact, always slightly off.
The Milwaukee has great dust collection the only other miter I have used like the Kapex, but the Milwaukee actually excels if you want to use a bag as it collects about 70% of the dust, the kapex is useless without a collector attached.
So I see many ways they can be compared. I owned both for a awhile and used them both for a long while before making my opinions.
If you are making judgment by making one or two cuts in a store great , I had the Kapex for a couple of months and the Milwaukee too, after that length of time I can not only compare the saws, but will keep my Milwaukee.
If anyone has used the Kapex for 60 days or more like I have AND used the Milwaukee for 60 days or more like I have, I would love to hear your opinions.
The kapex is more elegant in movement, the Milwaukee table and miter setting are better, the Kapex bevel is better, both collect dust well, the Milwaukee is better with only a bag for collection. I have had neither saw show any deflection that actually effect's the cuts in anyway at all.
My only note is comparing the kapex with its stock blade with the Milwaukee stock blade is a joke, if one does not replace the Milwaukee blade to the same quality blade on the kapex of course the kapex will cut with a perceived less deflection, many have tossed the Milwaukee blade in one day. Put a Forrest blade on the Milwaukee than test for deflection would be my suggestion.
The Milwaukee is NOT heavy I do not care what the weight says the way you carry it makes it VERY easy to move around and I am not strong by any stretch. I actually have really weak hands and fingers. To me a shop miter saw weighs 150 to 200 lbs and I wish I had the money for an industrial heavy unit like that. My Ridgid slider is FAR more heavy and bulky to move around than the Milwaukee. Granted you can toss the Kapex around like a toy.
I think the description is slightly off as far as reality and actual uses of these two saws, irrespective of what Festool may have thought or designed for that is not how those saws are used here in my personal experience here in the US.
I have never seen a kapex yet on a job site(I have already seen the Milwaukee several times), there are very few here that would bring a saw like that to the job site, I guess across the pond it is different. Actually most carpenters and trim guys here laugh at anyone spending what a kapex cost. I would hazard to guess that in the US most use the Milwaukee on job sites and the kapex in their shops and never bring the Kapex out. Most here that buy the kapex are either shop workers or hobbyists to date, maybe that will change, but I still see DeWalt 10 to 1 on the job sites followed by Makita and Bosch.
Per is about the only one I can verify that uses the Kapex like most saws are used on a job site and says they hold up so I believe it. It's just most guys are not Per and do not use the kapex like that. Maybe they should, but I have not seen it.
Here is the last inlay made with a few different angles, used my Milwaukee since the cuts were all relativley short, had no issues at all with the cuts not lining up.
I returned my kapex and am so very happy with the Milwaukee so I just do not get why you say you can not compare them. I find it very, very accurate, exactly what are you not finding accurate? I put the miter on 36.4 and make a cut and it is EXACTLY 36.4. I put the digital on 43.8 and the cut is EXACTLY 43.8. I can not put the Kapex on these angles and when I tried the cuts were never exact, always slightly off.
The Milwaukee has great dust collection the only other miter I have used like the Kapex, but the Milwaukee actually excels if you want to use a bag as it collects about 70% of the dust, the kapex is useless without a collector attached.
So I see many ways they can be compared. I owned both for a awhile and used them both for a long while before making my opinions.
If you are making judgment by making one or two cuts in a store great , I had the Kapex for a couple of months and the Milwaukee too, after that length of time I can not only compare the saws, but will keep my Milwaukee.
If anyone has used the Kapex for 60 days or more like I have AND used the Milwaukee for 60 days or more like I have, I would love to hear your opinions.
The kapex is more elegant in movement, the Milwaukee table and miter setting are better, the Kapex bevel is better, both collect dust well, the Milwaukee is better with only a bag for collection. I have had neither saw show any deflection that actually effect's the cuts in anyway at all.
My only note is comparing the kapex with its stock blade with the Milwaukee stock blade is a joke, if one does not replace the Milwaukee blade to the same quality blade on the kapex of course the kapex will cut with a perceived less deflection, many have tossed the Milwaukee blade in one day. Put a Forrest blade on the Milwaukee than test for deflection would be my suggestion.
The Milwaukee is NOT heavy I do not care what the weight says the way you carry it makes it VERY easy to move around and I am not strong by any stretch. I actually have really weak hands and fingers. To me a shop miter saw weighs 150 to 200 lbs and I wish I had the money for an industrial heavy unit like that. My Ridgid slider is FAR more heavy and bulky to move around than the Milwaukee. Granted you can toss the Kapex around like a toy.
I think the description is slightly off as far as reality and actual uses of these two saws, irrespective of what Festool may have thought or designed for that is not how those saws are used here in my personal experience here in the US.
I have never seen a kapex yet on a job site(I have already seen the Milwaukee several times), there are very few here that would bring a saw like that to the job site, I guess across the pond it is different. Actually most carpenters and trim guys here laugh at anyone spending what a kapex cost. I would hazard to guess that in the US most use the Milwaukee on job sites and the kapex in their shops and never bring the Kapex out. Most here that buy the kapex are either shop workers or hobbyists to date, maybe that will change, but I still see DeWalt 10 to 1 on the job sites followed by Makita and Bosch.
Per is about the only one I can verify that uses the Kapex like most saws are used on a job site and says they hold up so I believe it. It's just most guys are not Per and do not use the kapex like that. Maybe they should, but I have not seen it.
Here is the last inlay made with a few different angles, used my Milwaukee since the cuts were all relativley short, had no issues at all with the cuts not lining up.
Nickao,
What do you really think? All kidding aside your post made me look at my Milwaukee again. If you remember I had said in my first post that I did not have much knowledge about SCMS. Yes what I was looking for was Table Saw accuracy from a miter saw. I see now that it is not likely to be achieved and I believe it is because of the head movement and touch. My first impression from the cuts I made at the Woodcraft store must have been a dream. As I work with the Kapex I see that its cuts are no better than the Milwaukee and that is after doing a tune up. I did the 5-cut Calibration Method Test and was able to adjust them to be an equally accurate setup, which was far better for what I want, then the way they came to me. By the way I did have the Forrest Chop Master on the Milwaukee before I went to get the Kapex. I did the setup with that on and then put the stock blade back on to check it against the Kapex with its stock blade. If they both cut the same then it is a matter of features that appeal to ones taste. I did contact Milwaukee and here is what they said about the vacuum dust port......
It is still coming but has not been released.
It does have a part number 48-03-0200
Pricing has not been applied to this number yet.
Check with Customer Service at 1-800-729-3878 press 1
in a couple of weeks or so.
Thank You,
Sincerely,
Milwaukee Electric Tool Corporation
John M. Resch
After-Sales Service - Technical Support
I will be keeping my Milwaukee!!!
What do you really think? All kidding aside your post made me look at my Milwaukee again. If you remember I had said in my first post that I did not have much knowledge about SCMS. Yes what I was looking for was Table Saw accuracy from a miter saw. I see now that it is not likely to be achieved and I believe it is because of the head movement and touch. My first impression from the cuts I made at the Woodcraft store must have been a dream. As I work with the Kapex I see that its cuts are no better than the Milwaukee and that is after doing a tune up. I did the 5-cut Calibration Method Test and was able to adjust them to be an equally accurate setup, which was far better for what I want, then the way they came to me. By the way I did have the Forrest Chop Master on the Milwaukee before I went to get the Kapex. I did the setup with that on and then put the stock blade back on to check it against the Kapex with its stock blade. If they both cut the same then it is a matter of features that appeal to ones taste. I did contact Milwaukee and here is what they said about the vacuum dust port......
It is still coming but has not been released.
It does have a part number 48-03-0200
Pricing has not been applied to this number yet.
Check with Customer Service at 1-800-729-3878 press 1
in a couple of weeks or so.
Thank You,
Sincerely,
Milwaukee Electric Tool Corporation
John M. Resch
After-Sales Service - Technical Support
I will be keeping my Milwaukee!!!
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