Help me pick a sander/vac Is the CT Sys ok with RO sanders.. newbie!

[carpenterchick]

Hi all

First post, please excuse any ignorant questions from me!

I need a sander to do various house projects and with small kids am attracted by the dust sucking Festool vacs..

Please help me choose the right ones -

I'm interested in the CT SYS because I'll probably only use the sander half a dozen times a year, low volume

I need to sand the edge of doors very precisely, but also a 100 sq ft bathroom floor currently coated in a cementitious covering (I need to sand the sealer off lightly to reseal). There are some corners. So I'm floating toward the RO 90 for the corners but then it would be a pain to do the flat wide expanse of the floor with the RO 90. I wish the RO 90 could be fitted with a big 5-6" sanding plate...

I need to sand a slightly rougher cement floor - also just to remove the sealer.

And I'd like to be able to sand a couple of pressure treated landscape timbers  - so roughish wood, and a 30 sq foot painted deck to remove the paint.

Because I don't sand a lot at the moment I'm reluctant to get a delta type AND a large 5-6" Is there any tool that would do both. 

I read that the CT SYS isn't great with RO sanders only spinning round sanders. Is this true in the experience of people who have used it?

I might get a table saw in the next few years.. if my husband stops thinking I'll cut my hand off.. (sigh)

I'm really torn whether to get the Ct Sys vs the MINI (budged and space are issues)

And which sander/sanders you recommend for what I need to do!

Thank you all the experts out there

carpenter chick

;D ;D ;D

 

[Gregor]

I use a CTL-SYS (220V version) to extract from RO 90 and (older) Rotex 150E, at times (when the CT 36 is lent out again) I also use it with a cyclone for all other stuff (CMS-OF, Kapex, TS, HL850, jointer, ...) and it works without problems.

About your dilemma deciding between the two sanders: Festool (at least here in germany) resells used (non pristine condition after several years with warranty expired) at ~80% of the price (including tax) of a new machine. Check your sources of used festool and in case you see similar numbers you could simply opt to 'rent' both as new machines for several years at ~20% of the price you have to shell out to obtain them.

 

[nclemmons]

Welcome to the FOG.  And don't worry about questions - you'll find plenty of help here!

I'd probably recommend a ETS125 or 150 unit - both are random orbit.  They will give you a bit more sanding coverage and are easier to control.  I have both the RO90 and a 150/3 and for flat surfaces that are larger, the 150/3 works great.  If you are only looking at occasional corners, you can easily sand those by hand with a 3M hand block sander or freehand with sandpaper.  The 150 or 125 will typically give you more precision because of the wider pad and ease of control.

The RO90 is a nice sander, and it will do the job you outlined, but you'll be sanding longer and given the design and smaller pad, it's not as control-friendly.

As for the vacs, either the CTL-SYS or the Midi/Mini could be options.  One thing I'd think about is future needs.  the CTL-Sys as you noted does not offer variable speed and the bag is small.  I would not personally want it as a 'primary' vac.  I have a Midi that's a nice size and portable.  Use for both woodworking and car vacuuming and it works great.  CTL-Sys could do the same, but I think you are limiting yourself if you think you might end up with a saw or router that would fill the vac bag pretty quickly.

The idea of a tablesaw in the future would lead me toward the Midi for capacity.  You can adapt the Festool sanders to a TS and they will help control the dust on lightweight homeowner projects.  Systainers stack on any of the vacs and lock in place which might help with your question on storage. 

Take your time and visit a dealer to get the feel of the various sanders.  I would even bring in a short piece of the timber you mentioned to see how they handle that task as a test.

 

[semenza]

Hi,

  Welcome to the forum!  [smile]

      You will have a hard time getting one sander to do it all.  For the tasks you have lined up the RO150 is probably the best choice (maybe the ETS 150/5 EC).  In random orbit mode it can do precise work with a little practice. You really seem to have a need for both ends of the spectrum aggressive large area  and fine detail. Really hard to get one that does all of that and does it well. Those large areas and stripping type jobs will be a real time suck with the RO90.

    The CT-SYS  is not the best for an all purpose vac. If I were you I would go with at least a Mini or Midi. Variable speed higher suction than the CT-SYS on full when needed. A good bit more capacity. And the wheels are nice when moving around even within a work area.  Plus it will serve better for a wider range of tools down the road.

Seth

 

[carpenterchick]

wow that's really helpful - sean i hadn't thought about the wheels (doh!) It would be a pain to lift or drag the ct Sys vacuum.. though I suppose I could always get wheels down the line

I like the idea of refurbished or out of warranty Festool - does such a thing exist in the US?  I was drooling over Festool when went to see my family in Italy.. but with diff voltage and hertz couldn't drool too much!

Some of your are suggesting midi not mini- can you tell me why? (I am just learning, not questioning judgement !) Is it because I mentioned getting a table saw down the line? Would mini be too weak with a table saw?

Ok so choosing between its ETS150/3 or RO 150 is it that RO leaves fewer swirly marks?

Ideally I'd get at bigger pad sander , a mini or midi and an RO90 (as well as corners of floors have to do the edge of doors.. I suppose I could do them with an RO.. and corners by hand.

Is the 3 as in ETS 150/3 the amount the disc moves laterally for each vibration?

Thank you as I struggle through this.. I don't have a big budget so have been obsessing about this for months but as you say these are jobs at either end of the spectrum!

 

[carpenterchick]

oh and any advice on the abrasives for the jobs am doing? For stripping sealer off the concrete, sanding rough landscape timbers to slightly smoother  and then fine sanding edge of interior doors... Any brand you recommend?

 

[mrboult]

Firstly regarding the 80% cost figure, I think there was a slight mix up in translation of the previous post. I think the poster was pointing out that after you owned and used your new tools for a few years and finished your jobs - 2nd hand festools often fetch about 80% of there value when being resold (especially if you've kept them clean and undamaged along with their case & accessories) so any purchase could be looked at as more of a hire in the longer term financial sense. (With only a 20% loss of cost after reselling the tools)

Secondly the only reason to consider a CT midi over the CT mini is the 50% bigger dust bag. I believe
Mini = 10 litre bag
Midi = 15 litre bag

The CT SYS has slightly less power, non adjustable suction and a tiny 5 litre bag.

As for abrasives there are lots to choose from, each with their own speciality of use. The most all rounder option seems to be the Granat. This is what i use for 90% of my sanding tasks.

Like others have said the RO90 is too small for the bigger jobs really. The RO150 is a heavy ish beast and not ideal for smaller delicate jobs. The RO125 is my preferred do it all Sander, but in aggressive mode it can be a handful, and for the smaller jobs it can still be unwieldy.

I would suggest the ETS EC 125 or 150 for comfy refined sanding. These Sanders can still remove material pretty quickly with a rough grit paper.

Consider making the purchase right before you try your first job. That way if you don't like the Sander you can return it for a full refund within festools trial period (30 days in the USA i believe)

 

[Birdhunter]

For your large area sanding jobs, I'd consider hiring a guy with a floor sander.

If there is a woodworkers guild in your area or a nice woodworkers store, you could get some good hands on advice.

 

[semenza]

    The /3 or /5 is 3mm or 5mm. It is the size of the sanding stroke. Basically the amount of movement of the sanding pad.  /3 will be less of an all purpose sander than a /5.  The ETS line are random orbit sanders ..... basically finish sanders but will do general purpose sanding as well , especially the /5s. The RO (Rotex) line are dual mode sanders. They have a random orbit mode (so can do finish sanding) but also a more aggressive mode for stripping and material removal. The aggressive mode will definitely leave swirl marks.

    One thing to note...... do not get the ETS 125 (not to be confused with the ETS 125 EC)  it will not do the jobs you have in mind.

Seth

 

[Birdhunter]

Looking a long way ahead to your table saw. Look at the Sawstop units. They are great saws and they have a safety feature that makes it almost impossible to cut yourself. Be warned that shop vac's are generally useless with table saws. They require a high volume suction ..... Think 4" hose and vacuum that is extremely powerful.

I do totally agree a Mini or Midi vac is what you need.

 

[carpenterchick]

Wow.. am overwhelmed. Than you you SR Semenza, Birdhunter, Mr B Neil Gregor..and anyone I have missed.

Questions lead to more questions..!

Why is it bad to have NON variable suction as in the CT SYS. Thinking to my regular Miele vacuum, I only use it on max as I only use it for wood floors.. Is there a use with the Festool vac where I'd definitely need variable suction?

SR Semenza
What's the difference between the ETC EC 150 and the ETS 150 and why do you recommend the EC version for what I need to do.. trying to understand everything

Thank you for the PM about safety and table saws - that's incredibly helpful. And was actually looking at sawstop or the Bosch Reaxx which doesn't require changing the cartridge after each 'event'/ close miss. But those are all too expensive for me now so will not buy a table saw until can afford one of those. Am very cautious with saws but am still a newbie so need all the safety help can get. Am handy with a chainsaw though (; Wish they made chaps in a color other than orange and with they made them for smaller women like me! (no petite sizing ha!) Anyway I digress..

Everyone ..

What's the best site to buy festools  - i.e. who has the greater discounts (;  I saw that festools-online.com site offers 10% off vacuums when you buy a sander (and maybe other things, but am not letting myself look at 'other things'. Any better sites?

and can you return within 30 days regardless of where you buy or do you have to buy them from Festool directly to be able to return them. Do I pay for shipping to return if I need to return or is Festool generous enough to do that!

If I buy the ETS EC 150 could I potentially do fine polishing of plastic with it - anyone done this and what grits/brand do you recommend?

Thank you all and sorry for reposting my original post. I realise I'd made some typing mistakes but I though they'd just be edited in not a whole repeat post!

 

[carpenterchick]

Which sanding pad do you use when. When do you use a hard sanding pad, and when a soft..

I'm leaning towards the ETS EC 150/5 (can you polish with it) and maybe maybe the Rotex 90. Still haven't decided on the vac yet.. mini or CT Sys. Throw any opinions my way

 

[carpenterchick]

Now I'm confused..

Festool ETS 125 EQ is $195

Festool ETS 150 EC  /5 6" $485

I get that they are different machines, but what's the advantage of the EC that justifies the much higher price...

 

[rst]

The ETS 125 is a fine finish only sander.  It has a 2mm stroke making it the least likely, if used properly, sander to leave swirls in finishs.  It was my first Festool sander that I bought as it was the cheapest way to check out the Festools. For all round work I would buy the ETS EC 125 as you can also put the 150 pad on and it is the same motor and handles easiest, more like the air powered sanders used in most industrial settings.  That being said I do all kinds of work and own every Festool sander excepting the one I recommended (I bought the EC 150), the Ro 150 (have a Bosch), the RS 2 (have the Makita), ETS 150/3 (have the 125), RAP (have Makita) and the Planex

 

[carpenterchick]

Awesome info - thank you RST. That helps me eliminate the cheaper one as it would not be as versatile. sigh..

 

[semenza]

Choose a dealer based on service and knowledge. Festool pricing is the same everywhere. The 10% vac combo discount is available from all dealers.  I am assuming you are in the USA?

Seth

 

[Holmz]

For only getting 1 sander a ETC/EC 150/5 is a good choice.
I tried one as well as the RO150, and the ETS/EC is much easier to control.

As mentioned above, bring some boards to try them both.

I use the Mirka screens, and they work well and come in assortment packs.
There is a hand pad the Mirka makes to hold their rectangular screens and hooks to a vacuum. The will do corners. Festool has a similar contraption. ( I like the Mirka stuff)

 

[Cheese]

I have both the ETS 125 and the ETS EC 125 and find the ETS version, as rst & Seth said, is a strictly a fine finish sander, while the ETS EC variant will do a better job on the tasks that you've listed. The ETS EC is also smoother running and has a pad brake which may not appear at first to be a big deal, however after enjoying the benefits of the pad brake it almost becomes mandatory.

Bonus Round: The pad on the ETS EC 125 can be changed to the 150 size so you get 2 different sized sanders for only the price of an additional $45 pad.

There is only a 1/2# difference in weight between the MINI & MIDI, yet the MIDI has a 50% greater capacity than the MINI and 300% greater capacity than the CT SYS. Vac bags are not inexpensive and changing them constantly is also not fun.

If you're sanding a floor, you will have to literally drag the CT SYS behind you unless you put it on a $90 SYS-Cart because it doesn't have casters. While the MIDI will roll behind you effortlessly with just a tug of the hose.

Festool recommends turning down the amount of suction when sanding to prevent the sander being sucked down to the work surface. When using maximum suction, coarse grit sandpaper and depending upon the wood type and the grain, some sanders can become a real handful under these conditions, just turn the dial towards the tortoise position.  [smile]

Finally, not knowing exactly the condition of the "rougher cement floor" I'd consider looking into another method to remove the sealer, especially if it is a large area. Like Birdhunter suggested, maybe a floor sander or some non-toxic chemicals.

 

[carpenterchick]

Ok ETS EC 125 and a mini looks like what the majority recommends.. I like that you can get a 150 pad for the 125 too. it seems very versatile.

Cementitious floor.. it's milestone which is made by Rudd Co in Seattle (am in the US but east coast) so it's a very thin cement with an even thinner waterproof sealer so I have to sand very lightly, just scuffing really. Need to change the color then apply a new sealer as it makes a waterproof bathroom floor.  It's actually more like 40 sq ft not 100 sq ft. Sorry I think in metric and got conversion wrong.

I will go to my nearest dealer tomorrow and play with some of the sanders to get a feel for them. I hope it's OK if I post more questions after have been. I can't say enough thank to you all ou for cutting through the fog of uncertainty about these sanders..!

Cheese - your comment about the cart and suction really helped me

 

[leakyroof]

Ok ETS EC 125 and a mini looks like what the majority recommends.. I like that you can get a 150 pad for the 125 too. it seems very versatile.

Cementitious floor.. it's milestone which is made by Rudd Co in Seattle (am in the US but east coast) so it's a very thin cement with an even thinner waterproof sealer so I have to sand very lightly, just scuffing really. Need to change the color then apply a new sealer as it makes a waterproof bathroom floor.  It's actually more like 40 sq ft not 100 sq ft. Sorry I think in metric and got conversion wrong.

I will go to my nearest dealer tomorrow and play with some of the sanders to get a feel for them. I hope it's OK if I post more questions after have been. I can't say enough thank to you all ou for cutting through the fog of uncertainty about these sanders..!

Cheese - your comment about the cart and suction really helped me

Please remember that the EC 125 has a 3mm orbit. It will not sand aggressively by design, not sure if that's a problem with your floor work... [sad]
If the rougher sanding really does require a more aggressive unit, you could always rent something for a day or two .