Help selecting hand planes.

[Iceclimber]

I need or rather want to purchase a couple hand planes. My intention for them is to do things like clean up highly figured wood that tends to suffer tear out on a mechanical planer and or jointer prior to finish.

The other thing i am looking to accomplish is the ability to clean up edges of boards better than my jointer can before edge jointing. My jointer actually does a very respectable job. Regardless i would still like something to do the job in the event i find my self wanting.

Recently i have been working with some highly figured birds eye maple. I was able to get fairly good results with both my machines "planer/jointer" but far from good enough for just a light sand before finishing. To be clear the edges for jointimg were just fine. It was the surfaces of the boards that presented the problem. After extensive sanding i got things next to perfect but still not perfect. At the time i was inclined to try a hand plane and card scraper but was not up for parting with $500-600 at the time. Thank god for the Rotex as the boards did remain perfectly flat and square on all sides after all the sanding prior to finish. Any other brand sander and i don't think i would had been so lucky.

I just purchased 40BF of 8/4 bubinga that i intend to make into a shaker style cabinet with doors and drawers that will serve as a workbench base. I know this wood is going to be really hard on my tools and I'm going to be left wanting for ever advantage possible. I also spent a arm and a leg on the wood so a few more bucks on the right tools seems prudent. Im also going to buy new blades and bits for all the tools that will be used for the project so i have a backup if the need shall arise. I am confident it will!

I know figured woods want a high angle rabbit/frog whatever its all the sane right But exactly what type and or size planes do you all think i will want for my project. As of now the plan is 2.5" wide 3/4" thick door styles and 1/4 flat floating panels. I may be off on this detail and make the styles a bit thicker as i don't want my floating panels to have any detail. Just flat shaker style panels dadoed into the styles. I have a feeling edge jointing 1/4" stock may be problematic hence the need to make them more like 3/8 or something?

Im gonna buy Lee Neilson planes now so i don't just want to replace them later. Im also going to purchase everything needed to hand cut dovetails. Im thinking a Badaxe dovetail saw, a Veritas Twin Screw, a marking gauge and one of those razor type marking knives. Anything else i should consider, i have chisels . And yes i want to hand cut the dovetails i am sure! I plan to practice on something other than the intended birdseye, mahogany and bubinga and hone my technique. I have cut a few dovetails in the past just to get a idea of what it is all about and it went fairly well just screwing around with all the wrong tool lol...

This is just for fun and will be done in my free time when not working. I imagine this project will take quite some time as i just took on a paying project that will keep me busy M-F for a couple months. Sadly nothing this interesting, just a cedar shake roof out in the New England winter warmth...

Thank you for the any help you can offer in advance.. 

 

[Gary in Texas]

Figured wood and tear out was one of the reasons I got the Performax 22/44.  I doubt my ability to hand plan highly figured wood any better than my planer.

What I've done in past is observe which direction of feed causes the most tear out with my planer (or jointer), mark the board and feed from the other direction.  Sometimes, you get wood going both ways, so no matter the direction of feed, you still get some tear out.

My wife purchased the drum sander for my Christmas present many years ago.  I've found it to be invaluable when it comes to finishing highly figured wood, as well as sanding panels, etc.... Just something you might want to consider......

Gary

 

[mouppe]

I would call Lie Nielsen and ask for their advice. Their customer service is superb.

Personally, I use a #7 for edge joints with a 45 degree frog and a #5 1/2 with a 50 or 55 degree frog (I have both) for smoothing. The frogs are interchangeable between a #7, a $5 1/2 and a #4 1/2.

 

[Iceclimber]

Yes a drum sander is in the my future.

However in the timeline for this project the funds just are not in the pipeline. I still plan to get my hands on that SawStop.

After that purchase it will either be the Domino XL or Powermatic floor model mortising machine. Actually a real full shop dust collection system will be next. Then probably a drill press then a upgrade from my 6" jointer to at least a 10" machine.

Then mAybe a thickness sander!

Figured wood and tear out was one of the reasons I got the Performax 22/44.  I doubt my ability to hand plan highly figured wood any better than my planer.

What I've done in past is observe which direction of feed causes the most tear out with my planer (or jointer), mark the board and feed from the other direction.  Sometimes, you get wood going both ways, so no matter the direction of feed, you still get some tear out.

My wife purchased the drum sander for my Christmas present many years ago.  I've found it to be invaluable when it comes to finishing highly figured wood, as well as sanding panels, etc.... Just something you might want to consider......

Gary

 

[Wooden Skye]

The Wood Whisper had something on his site that he would use water, mineral spirits or something similar before jointing figured woods.  I don't remember the exact episode.

 

[woodguy7]

I think i read somewhere that if you wipe the surface with a damp sponge before planning it reduces tear out.  Would always experiment on a scrap piece first though.

Good choice on the Lie Nielsen planes, i have a few & love them.

 

[Tinker]

I need or rather want to purchase a couple hand planes. My intention for them is to do things like clean up highly figured wood that tends to suffer tear out on a mechanical planer and or jointer prior to finish.

The other thing i am looking to accomplish is the ability to clean up edges of boards better than my jointer can before edge jointing. My jointer actually does a very respectable job. Regardless i would still like something to do the job in the event i find my self wanting.

Recently i have been working with some highly figured birds eye maple. I was able to get fairly good results with both my machines "planer/jointer" but far from good enough for just a light sand before finishing. To be clear the edges for jointimg were just fine. It was the surfaces of the boards that presented the problem. After extensive sanding i got things next to perfect but still not perfect. At the time i was inclined to try a hand plane and card scraper but was not up for parting with $500-600 at the time. Thank god for the Rotex as the boards did remain perfectly flat and square on all sides after all the sanding prior to finish. Any other brand sander and i don't think i would had been so lucky.

I just purchased 40BF of 8/4 bubinga that i intend to make into a shaker style cabinet with doors and drawers that will serve as a workbench base. I know this wood is going to be really hard on my tools and I'm going to be left wanting for ever advantage possible. I also spent a arm and a leg on the wood so a few more bucks on the right tools seems prudent. Im also going to buy new blades and bits for all the tools that will be used for the project so i have a backup if the need shall arise. I am confident it will!

I know figured woods want a high angle rabbit/frog whatever its all the sane right But exactly what type and or size planes do you all think i will want for my project. As of now the plan is 2.5" wide 3/4" thick door styles and 1/4 flat floating panels. I may be off on this detail and make the styles a bit thicker as i don't want my floating panels to have any detail. Just flat shaker style panels dadoed into the styles. I have a feeling edge jointing 1/4" stock may be problematic hence the need to make them more like 3/8 or something?

Im gonna buy Lee Neilson planes now so i don't just want to replace them later. Im also going to purchase everything needed to hand cut dovetails. Im thinking a Badaxe dovetail saw, a Veritas Twin Screw, a marking gauge and one of those razor type marking knives. Anything else i should consider, i have chisels . And yes i want to hand cut the dovetails i am sure! I plan to practice on something other than the intended birdseye, mahogany and bubinga and hone my technique. I have cut a few dovetails in the past just to get a idea of what it is all about and it went fairly well just screwing around with all the wrong tool lol...

This is just for fun and will be done in my free time when not working. I imagine this project will take quite some time as i just took on a paying project that will keep me busy M-F for a couple months. Sadly nothing this interesting, just a cedar shake roof out in the New England winter warmth...

Thank you for the any help you can offer in advance..

I have had problems with using my DW planer on crazy grained wood.  My hands start to cramp sometimes when using a card scraper.  I finally got a LN scraper plane (I think it is a #12, but without going into shop, I am not sure).  They make two.  mine is the larger of the two.  the angle of the blade to wood is adjustable.  That plane gets used often with great results.  i have not used it on bird's eye yet, but on tiger maple it leaves a nice finish so very little sanding.  When smoothing out straight grained walnut and maple, the finish will come out shiney smooth. AND, my hands don't cramp.  the blade is softer (I think) than their other plane blades.  How long and edge keeps doing its job depends upon the angle the blade is set and the hardness of the wood. 

For larger pieces I need to surface, i have a LN low angle jack plane with the blade sharpened to about 50º.  That does the same job as my scraper plane. I don't use it as often tho.  When truing up a board to run thru the planer later, i will use my smooter plane and then the jack with the 50º blade and then the scraper plane.

Al of above is for surface smoothing.  I use my TS 55R for edge joining.

I have some shaker type panels that i made for bathroom cabinet doors.  I did not want to try going down to 1/4" panels with bookend resin grain.  I planed/sanded down to 1/2" and coved out the backside edges.  The coving does not show from the visible side of the doors and i get the full bookends effect.  There were knots and other grain checks on the inside faces to the doors, but those have no effect to the outside faces.  You might be a little more particular about the inside of your door, (I have read your other threads about finishing and i still would gladly take those boards with the nail holes in them off of your hands so you can sleep at nite  [poke])but my wife and I like things a little informal.  My outlook is the God never made a perfect tree, I don't feel I can make the perfect board. If interested, i can take a couple of pictures of how the doors look with flat side out/rough side in.  A couple are probably too rough for your taste, but might be of interest for you.
Tinker

 

[Iceclimber]

I have tried the dampening the surface with alcohol and water. I guess the help, nothing like a fresh set of blades. Only problem is a fresh set of blades is only fresh for 2-3 passes then you can tell they have dulled.

So do i want bench, block, smoothing scraping or a jointer plane. I guess the answer like anything is one of each but if i can only have one or two at the moment what would be the best place to start.

Thanks again guys. About to start yet another should i buy a domino thread...

I think i read somewhere that if you wipe the surface with a damp sponge before planning it reduces tear out.  Would always experiment on a scrap piece first though.

Good choice on the Lie Nielsen planes, i have a few & love them.

 

[woodguy7]

Well i would use a 41/2 with high angle from for planing the face & a 51/2 with standard frog for the edges.

 

[otis04]

Lie-Nielsen is highly recommended. The tools are top notch, made in the USA (Maine to be exact), and the customer service is excellent.  Just like Festool, except for the USA part.
Not sure why, but I think I saw somewhere that you were in New England, they are 2 hours from Portsmouth NH and all of their tools are available for use in the showroom.  You could take your wood there to see how it would work with various tools.  Also, there are the Hand Tool Events which is linked below.

https://www.lie-nielsen.com/hand-tool-events

 

[Tinker]

iceclimber,  Check Lee Valley and their Verita hand planes.  They are very innovative and a little less expensive than LV.  the planes are made in Canada.  I have not bought any of the Veritas planes, but i am thinking that will be my next purchase (for a hand plane)  Lee valley has, by my own experience as well as many other FOGgers, been exceptional with their customer relations. 

Tinker

 

[Iceclimber]

Yes im just outside Boston in Massachusetts.

I have been wanting to drive up and just make the purchases in person. It normaly comes down to the choice between acday in the shop or a trip to Maine. Needless to say the day in the shop always wins.

I never did think about your suggestion to brung some og my material so i could try various tools. That just might be the selling point for a day trip.

Its like sourcing ood lumber for projects i guess. I am still figuring out that this is also part of the fun/joy of setting off to build a project. I have a number of wuality sources of exotic lumber near by. However one is heads and shoulders above the rest all be it the furthest away from me "2.5 hrs" regardless i have found that when i need lumber i just want the best and maeke the drive. My point is between the drive then sorting through racks of lumber leavong jo board unturned looking for the nicest boards and the one that suit my project best i am figuring out i need to leave a full long day for just sourcing the lumber for a project.

So i guess a leasulry trip to Maine to pick up some sweet tools i will have forever really is not that much of a stretch!

Lie-Nielsen is highly recommended. The tools are top notch, made in the USA (Maine to be exact), and the customer service is excellent.  Just like Festool, except for the USA part.
Not sure why, but I think I saw somewhere that you were in New England, they are 2 hours from Portsmouth NH and all of their tools are available for use in the showroom.  You could take your wood there to see how it would work with various tools.  Also, there are the Hand Tool Events which is linked below.

https://www.lie-nielsen.com/hand-tool-events

 

[waho6o9]

For a perfect 90 degree edge may I suggest an
edge plane?

The results are worth the effort.

[attachimg=1]
[attachthumb=2]
https://www.lie-nielsen.com/product/1-95-lh-bronze-edge-plane

 

[woodguy7]

That plane dosent  have a long enough sole to straighten boards.  Fine for short boards.

 

[waho6o9]

It's for making a 90 degree angle after

using your jointer. 

 

[woodguy7]

I see what you are saying but traditionally the 2 edges don't need to be square.  If you flip the 2 boards together & plane them both at once they can be any angle.  For example if you angle the plane by 5 deg by mistake then 1 board will be at 95 deg & the other will be 85deg.  When they come together they will be dead flat.  Thats why furniture makers use a 51/2 minimum, usually longer as the straightness is more important.

 

[Iceclimber]

Now this is the info i am looking for.

I was considering a edge plane.

As for the conversation with regard to joining two 95% boards and just flipping them i have a couple questions.

One is what about jointing with apposing direction. Would this not compromise that technique or am a i missing something.

Second is often i have a preferred finished side of the wood i am working due to figure color texture really a myriad of things. Often I'm not very keen on just using whatever side.

 

[waho6o9]

Second is often i have a preferred finished side of the wood i am working due to figure color texture really a myriad of things. Often I'm not very keen on just using whatever side.

To make your preferred side mirror like I'd use a scraper plane.
I've yet to purchase one as I use a scraper blade. However, I see the value of the
scraper plane.
[attachimg=1]

 

[woodguy7]

Good call on the scraper plane.
As for grain orientation on the edges, if tear out occurs then you will have to flip it & get the edges square  ;D  Just have to suck it n see  [thumbs up]

 

[waho6o9]

"I see what you are saying but traditionally the 2 edges don't need to be square"

Thank you for your input, but I see things differently as in make it a 90 degree angle
to the best of your ability.

"If you flip the 2 boards together & plane them both at once they can be any angle.  For example if you angle the plane by 5 deg by mistake then 1 board will be at 95 deg & the other will be 85deg.  When they come together they will be dead flat."

Good advice to have in your bag of tricks^.  Thank you  woodguy7