Hepa filter for new model CTL Midi in UK

S

Simon O

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Anyone know when Hepa filters might be made available for the new iteration of the CTL Midi (as bought in the U.K.), the U.S. part number is 204201, as opposed to the installed filter 204200? Or will I have to order from the States?
My recollection was Hepa filters were made available in Europe for the old model Mini and Midis - I'm now hoping this will eventually happen for the new models.
 
Hmmm, ok looks like that's a 'no' then.

So, anyone in U.K. had success with U.S. suppliers shipping Festool gear ?
 
Ok, can someone explain (in simple terms) the whole filter thing to me.

Here in the UK I know all about our L and M class, if I am correct HEPA is an American standard.

Is Hepa better than our standard here in the UK? What is the standard in Europe?
 
A HEPA filter is generally accepted as being able to filter 99.97% of all particles .3 microns and larger flowing through it.  That is the minimum standard.  There are at least a dozen more stringent levels.

HEPA is kinda become a generic marketing term in the USA.  Auto makers are claiming to have HEPA cabin filters , yet none are certified and it's nearly impossible to find any kind of testing data on OEM  filters.

The other component to this is leakage.  The system is only as good as it's weakest link.  The best HEPA filter is going to be wasted on a cheap vacuum cleaner that has leaks elsewhere in the chain.  This is part of the reason Fetsool's vacs are expensive.  They've gone to the trouble and expense to tighten up the flow and have them certified to meet HEPA standards.  That's not as simple as sticking a filter with very small holes into any ol vac.

As to your EURO vs. HEPA question, I'm not sure offhand what the EU ratings are; but I do know they have measurements and strict guidelines for air quality.  I do recall they don't lineup nicely with the HEPA system for easy comparison. 
 
Doug S said:
Ok, can someone explain (in simple terms) the whole filter thing to me.

Here in the UK I know all about our L and M class, if I am correct HEPA is an American standard.

Is Hepa better than our standard here in the UK? What is the standard in Europe?
Click to expand...

L and M class both are the standard in Europe. They have the exact same filters, but the M class has an added audible alarm built in the vac when the suction drops. When the suction drops it generally means the bag is full and you have to change it. The European commission thinks M class is safer for the working environment so they made M class mandatory for them. Private people can buy L class vacs and have the same protection, because this decision by the EU commission is DOPE and M class doesn't add anything that's seriously usefull beyond highly controlled lab tests.

HEPA is the American standard for filtration, and it is a much higher standard so the filters are quite a bit better than European L & M class. But it would be wrong to think they keep you healthier. European L & M class filters already filter to a very high degree, they will keep you healthy to. With all the dust that moves around a work site, outside the vac, or even in a normal house, the extra protection HEPA provides is not significant.
 
Doug S said:
Here in the UK I know all about our L and M class, if I am correct HEPA is an American standard.

Is Hepa better than our standard here in the UK? What is the standard in Europe?
Click to expand...

According to Nilfisk:
L class = 99% >2 microns
M class = 99.9% > 2 microns
H class = 99.995% > 1 micron

HEPA = 99.97% > .3 microns
 
I’m sure they don’t. As the new filters are slot in type, which is glued to the drawer. So you exchange the whole thing.
 
FestitaMakool is right, those Hepa filters (eventually introduced into the European market for the Mini and Midi) are for the Mark 1 models, not the new ones.

The one Festita cites from Axminster is the standard filter fitted, I'm after the Hepa ones fitted in the American Midi Mark 2s.

Already been down the rabbit hole re this topic in another thread, not interested in going there again - I want to fit one to my Midi 2, so will order from the States, as they're not available in Europe at the moment.

Has anyone had experience of successfully shipping Festool goods from the States? Or maybe Canada?
 
[member=5277]Alex[/member] and [member=44099]Cheese[/member], thanks for the clarifications.
I remember household vac’s without Hepa filter wouldn’t sell here in Europe a few years ago, now nobody talks about it (in marketing).

I’m working within property management, an in one instance I had a small fire on my hands, resulting in “hypersensitive” tenants, worrying about damage to the air quality coming from the ventilation.. In the end we called in specialist samples taken from the air inside (before and after the ventilation system was cleaned) and the results said that: You better not open the windows, to the street outside, because any air inside here is miles better than if you step outside...

So a dust extractor with a working and properly maintained filter, is presumably exhausting better air quality than the air in the area you’re working in..
 
I've always felt that the regular filters offer good enough filtration for pretty much all woodworking tasks we normally do.

HEPA is useful for me if I am sanding or cutting old lead paint or other materials of hazardous nature. But for regular ol processing of maple, mahogany, oak hardwood and MDF , ply or partialboard sheetgoods the standard filter is plenty adequate.

There is a slight bonus to the non HEPA filters - they increase the suction because of less restriction.  This is really more of a theoretical gain because the difference is small enough to go unnoticed by most people in real world settings.
 
[member=62623]Simon O[/member] What's the use case Simon? What face filter are you using, and do you use an air filter too? Or is this for a more mobile setup?

I looked at this in detail in the past, and the general conclusion was that the Festool standard filters are "good enough" given the inability to capture 100% of wood dust at the tool, and the general wood dust particle size from operations such as sawing and sanding with various wood types. The key safety element then becomes your face mask/filter. And if you're working in a workshop, the next best investment is an air filter.

Of course, your health, your money, and I *did* have a HEPA filter in my old CTL 26 because I could afford it and it was available, but I'm now comfortable with my standard filter in my new CTL 36 E AC. But I do have a good face mask/filters and an air filter too.
 
I've not tried this but CTH bags are to a higher spec than Hepa anyway so couldn't you just use a CTH bag?
 
GarryMartin said:
[member=62623]Simon O[/member] What's the use case Simon? What face filter are you using, and do you use an air filter too? Or is this for a more mobile setup?

I looked at this in detail in the past, and the general conclusion was that the Festool standard filters are "good enough" given the inability to capture 100% of wood dust at the tool, and the general wood dust particle size from operations such as sawing and sanding with various wood types. The key safety element then becomes your face mask/filter. And if you're working in a workshop, the next best investment is an air filter.

Of course, your health, your money, and I *did* have a HEPA filter in my old CTL 26 because I could afford it and it was available, but I'm now comfortable with my standard filter in my new CTL 36 E AC. But I do have a good face mask/filters and an air filter too.
Click to expand...

I'm not a woodworker - though do some when restoring sash windows - I work as a decorator, so am largely using the extractor to extract dust from sanding paintwork/wood/and a variety of fillers. The Midi 2 I have is my more mobile back up extractor: for larger jobs when doing major making good of walls (I use the Knauf Proroll system), and generating large quantities of dust of different types, I use a Starmix extractor fitted with an M class bag and H class filters, and set up the same fan system I use when spraying, to vent anything not caught, outside.

I really Don't want to revisit the 'dialogue' we had back in 2017, suffice it to say that for me and my clients 'good enough' doesn't work (I wear a mask 3m 4255, but my clients don't) hence my enquiry.

Hepa filters were finally made available (in UK) for the old models of mini and midi, and are currently on sale at £49 as shown in the link above. I was hoping that the same might happen for the Mark 2 models, I spoke to Festool UK about this some time ago, but was told there were no plans to sell these in UK. I posted this thread, just to see if anyone had heard to the contrary, or if anyone had had success with buying from the States.

I'm pretty sure I can't use the CTH bags for my Midi, as the bags are of different designs.
 
Do you use a particulate meter to measure air quality in your shop or jobsite .

Have you tested the difference the HEPA filter makes (if any) ?

I think what some of us are saying is that the HEPA filter doesn't make much of a real world difference in air quality five feet away from the extractor because it's only part of the overall system.  We're also saying that a bigger factor in the overall air quality is the inability to capture all the dust at the source. And it's that dust which doesn't go through a filter at all; that contRibutes more to the air qualty than whether your secondary filter stops .3 or 1 micron particles.

I'm coming over next week, maybe I can bring you some HEPA filters if you can't find someone on Amazon or eBay to ship them to you direct.
 
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