High-end Chinese brands?

[junk731]

I assume your referring to the the distinction of quality between Taiwanese and Chinese equipment. I think your probably old enough to remember when another part of Asia was said to produce low quality products, Japan. Would you honestly try and say that now. Similar distinction between Taiwan and China as far as woodworking and metal working equipment.

John

 

[coug]

I was looking at compressors yesterday and was surprised to see a plate on a few Rolairs with Made in China.  Other models I look at say "assembled in the US" not "made in."  The post above hit it on the head, globalization. 

 

[AlexThePalex]

Couple of years ago I saw this item on the news about a Dutch chemical company that made fibers and derived products, and relocated part of its production line to China.  The guy they interviewed mentioned with emphasis they only relocated the low-tech part of their production to China, the part where they made products from the fibers. The production of the fibers themselves was still done here in Holland, after which the fibers where shipped to China where the Chinese made products from those fibers.

The reason to divide production like this was, as he said, because they were afraid the Chinese might copy their high-tech production line, while it took the Dutch company decades of research to refine the fibers and the machines to make them.

And that illustrates how it is with modern technology, it is pretty advanced and refined, and you don't get that with just ordering a couple of machines somewhere, you have to build up those decades of research yourself.

Unless you take a shortcut ofcourse, industrial espionage. I've heard a couple of stories about China in that regard. But even then, having the schematic is not the same as having the engineers that worked on it the last 30 years.

 

[mo siopa]

In a previous life, I worked for a furniture parts manufacturer.  We were seeing Oak and Poplar squares being sold to our customers for less than our cost but we knew the business would come back because the quality was horrific.  Since then, they've improved enough to all but destroy US production.  We now import more than we produce.

More recently, it is finished cabinets (ie: bathroom vanities with granite tops included) for less than the materials would cost here.  It's easy for us to spot the shoddy finish and lack of artistic ability in the "crotch mahogany" door panels, but our general public doesn't see it.  To them, it looks like heirloom furniture for 1/10 the price.

 

[Linbro]

In other realms, there are high-end products coming out of China.  Oppo (DVD players) is a Chinese company and there stuff is always well reviewed.  They are on the lower-end of the high-end market, but they are still considered high end.  There is no reason at some point tools couldn't be as well.  The issue tends to be that most factories rely and thrive on voume.  The demand isn't there necessarily to create the need for the supply.

Pretty sure OPPO are a US company, who now manufacture in China. And yes, their products are top notch. Their Blu-ray players are amazing, and considering the quality, well priced.

 

[travisj]

Nope., they are a Chinese company.  When I was doing my research prior to getting mine several years ago, I was surprised by this fact.

 

[crazydave789]

There's TTI, although the tools are usually branded Milwaukee, AEG, and Ryobi.  [scared]

which is usually better made than dewalts output for the last 20 years IMO B&D took some good products and ruined them in the same way with cheap castings and plastics where they do not belong, substandard motors, plastic gearboxes and cheap cells - B&D taught the chinese all they needed.

the chinese can build good stuff when told to or in company set up factories like the honda engine plant built there. it all goes wrong when people ask for copied things or the company starts shaving pennies off by lowering their build quality or swapping parts without telling you.

 

[estley]

Check out Quangsheng planes, I haven't personally seen them, but from what I've read/heard, they're basically Lie Nielsen clones, without a quality loss.

This also sheds some light to the subject matter:

I think as a few people have stated it here, the "made in china" quality stereotype is part of a vicious circle, On one hand we've come to expect chinese products to be of lower quality/price, they in turn have satisfied those two parameters. However, when/if a higher end, highgher priced chinese product comes to market, we're skeptical about it.

I think that anyone that is in business has been thru this sort of problem at least once, if not daily. Client asks "how much will this cost?", we give a proposal for how we would do things, only to be met with "no, no, no, that's way to expensive, what if we cut out X Y znd Z?", you cut out X, Y and Z, and when the client sees the final product wonders "why are we missing X, Y and Z?"......

 

[crazydave789]

I remember being told about the chinese production system, the Peoples liberation army has its own factories in each district for each set of generals who also make money out of them. so it started when companies making military electronics moved over to civilian ones or civilian goods like the feng yung army knife (wenger clone). a bit like the soviet design bureau and tender process where a washing machine factory will end up making fighter jets as I understand was the case with one of the cold war era migs. this progressed from the hong kong shanghai partnership deeper into the country and the production exploded to feed the desire from the west for cheap labour to exploit. usually the production base shifts every 20 years or so to find a new source of labour but china is so big it can keep hold of it for a few cycles which is crippling africa which is desperate to get in on the act along with eastern europe, turkey etc.. which is losing business from a position as a supplier of cheap goods into europe like lodos TVs. some countries like vietnam are competing but doing so on the quality front, a chinese made tent will not be as good as a vietnamese one simply because dupont built a plant to make the fabric which is a much better than what the chinese are churning out.

the chinese cheapify products to make a bit more profit but also produce cheap generic versions with a few differences either internally or cosmetically. so I was buying 512mb mp3 players from china at a quarter of the cost of 256mb players over here, the difference being the screen changed colour the item was usually anodised different colours and when it booted the flash screen was chinese.

I find it very similar to the german period when (former) east german tools which were made to do the same task but were cheaper and rougher being churned out in the 90s, the early yellow einhell stuff was basic but functional and importantly cheap so it sold stuff people would never have bought otherwise usually like now its simple things like crappier batteries or very slow chargers that restrict them from being full on tools but when they only get used four hours a year it doesn't really matter - einhell is now a pretty powerfull brand this side of the atlantic (and beyond) making most of the budget kit for stores like aldi and lidl and diy chains along with some decent more modern offerings. its not bosch or festool but it doesn't need to be. I got my father a cheap bodygrip jigsaw one year for 35 quid from lidl and it performs just as well as my atlas copco one if not my old festo ps2e. sometimes its hard to work out which is german budget gear and which is chinese. the grizzly, woodstar and scheppach saws are identical but where are they made?

just picked up a triton tts1400 track saw as money is tight due to house move and I have a load of panels to process the day after (bought 20 25mm sheets of mdf for 80 quid) mechanically it is almost identical to the makita but without as much brand polish and finishing or a few knobs for adjustment, but a huge step up from the woodstar/scheppach type. had the choice of the batavia as well which is just a different colour but hafele carry them as a brand so they can't be that bad. made by (or for) powerbox international. a few niggles, mostly with the tracks but only little things like the splinter strip finishes 2mm short which is a cheap fix really and I might change the connector pieces. but as I got the saw with 1400 of track for 160 and two more track sets for 60 quid I really can't complain as the money saved on the mdf paid for it having watched the way folks have improved the cheap brands I shall do the same with this one.

the usual downside to cloned kit is the availability of spares but even that hurdle is being jumped now. chinese kit will continue to improve as they buy western brands to gain experience (lenovo, MG etc..) and even worse they are controlling the distribution with cosco shipping and containers, building railways (the new silk road), buying or building freight airports to get away from potential US interference. they are even starting a new 'panama' canal to compete with the US dominated original. the world simply can't compete and its mainly due to the free trade agreements and globalisation initiatives stupid politicians were handed by their corporate sponsors. bigger is not better, the downside to bigger shareholder profits is usually local jobs as walmart demostrates so well.

 

[Kev]

Check out Quangsheng planes, I haven't personally seen them, but from what I've read/heard, they're basically Lie Nielsen clones, without a quality loss.

This also sheds some light to the subject matter:

I think as a few people have stated it here, the "made in china" quality stereotype is part of a vicious circle, On one hand we've come to expect chinese products to be of lower quality/price, they in turn have satisfied those two parameters. However, when/if a higher end, highgher priced chinese product comes to market, we're skeptical about it.

I think that anyone that is in business has been thru this sort of problem at least once, if not daily. Client asks "how much will this cost?", we give a proposal for how we would do things, only to be met with "no, no, no, that's way to expensive, what if we cut out X Y znd Z?", you cut out X, Y and Z, and when the client sees the final product wonders "why are we missing X, Y and Z?"......

Seen them a few times and have been tempted to buy one just out of curiosity - cosmetically (at least) they look the goods!